Zack Greer graduates Duke, will use last year of eligibility at Bryant

[LetItBD08]

Anecdotal evidence alert: Tony McDevitt was an exceptionally bright student. Granted I say this only from taking one history class with him over two years ago, but he really drove that class. When I heard he was admitted to Fuqua right after his senior year (a feat that appears rare), I wasn't all that surprised. That kid could more than hold his own both athletically and academically. I don't know a thing about Greer's academic abilities nor do I know admissions criteria for Fuqua. Just wanted to point out that, in my opinion, Tony's enrollment in Fuqua (and his Wall Street offers) most likely stem from the fact that he appears to be an extremely intelligent and driven man.

[formerdukeathlete]

Let me repeat. You have absolutely no clue what this kid's GMAT scores are, you have absolutely no clue what his essays looked like, you have absolutely no clue what his recommendations looked like, and you have a slight clue that his GPA might be around a certain value (a value which is significantly lower than Fuqua's average, by the way). It's fine to consider what is likely, but you have no idea what is likely.



Saying "since Duke is such a highly rated school and I don't know anything about this kid's application, it's possible he didn't have what it takes to get in" is reasonable. Saying "I have a hard time believing that UNC or UVA wouldn't accept this kid" when you know absolute crap about him is not reasonable.

What we know is that Greer is one of the if not the best attackman in the country, about a 3.0 student at Duke, a pretty strong student out of high school with likely good SATs - to be recruited by Ivies. I dont know with certainty of course what his GMATs were, but they were probably ok - given the correlations, and I have to think that there is a good chance that either UNC or UVA would have offered him admission to b-school in connection with landing the top attackman in the country. Tony McDevitt's case illustrates something. In the realm of things my giving Greer props and benefit of the doubt that he might indeed have been admissible to Fuqua, but chose not to take advantage of this for other reasons, seems fair. Over and out.

[chrishoke]

Anecdotal evidence alert: Tony McDevitt was an exceptionally bright student. Granted I say this only from taking one history class with him over two years ago, but he really drove that class. When I heard he was admitted to Fuqua right after his senior year (a feat that appears rare), I wasn't all that surprised. That kid could more than hold his own both athletically and academically. I don't know a thing about Greer's academic abilities nor do I know admissions criteria for Fuqua. Just wanted to point out that, in my opinion, Tony's enrollment in Fuqua (and his Wall Street offers) most likely stem from the fact that he appears to be an extremely intelligent and driven man.

That's nice to hear and not surprising. My son and I are big Duke lacrosse fans and Tony was our favorite. I had the pleasure of lecturing to one of his classes at Fuqua.

[Inonehand]

Let me repeat. You have absolutely no clue what this kid's GMAT scores are, you have absolutely no clue what his essays looked like, you have absolutely no clue what his recommendations looked like, and you have a slight clue that his GPA might be around a certain value (a value which is significantly lower than Fuqua's average, by the way). It's fine to consider what is likely, but you have no idea what is likely.



Saying "since Duke is such a highly rated school and I don't know anything about this kid's application, it's possible he didn't have what it takes to get in" is reasonable. Saying "I have a hard time believing that UNC or UVA wouldn't accept this kid" when you know absolute crap about him is not reasonable.

Your rip of FDA is totally uncalled for. His posts include, at most, no more speculation than your own. Let's tone it down a little bit.

I will say this much, Fuqua has let in many former athletes without work experience. Tommy Amaker was admitted but did not finish. Joe Alleva's son, Jeff, graduated a year or so ago. I'm certain if researched you'd find many others. I have no idea if Zach was admitted, not admitted, or even applied. It remains a very good possibility that even if admitted he did not relish paying for that second year. The earlier posts that stated he might not have THIS year paid for in full do not seem based in any kind of reality however. He is quite possibly the best player in the country. Whatever and why-ever, he will be missed at Duke but he gave us a fun few years. Just wish him luck at Bryant, playing under a very good man.

[phaedrus]

Looks like an argument, not a rip, to me. I do wish the best for Greer - I just hope that if he were accepted by Fuqua, it was because of his academic credentials primarily and his athletic accomplishments second. It should take more than "ok" grades, GMAT, and essays to get into a top business school, and while Greer perhaps did better than ok, it's not fair to assume he did simply because he was a Duke student.

But again, I hope the Bryant decision turns out to be a good one for him. It was fun following him for a few years.

[Wander]

I will say this much, Fuqua has let in many former athletes without work experience. Tommy Amaker was admitted but did not finish. Joe Alleva's son, Jeff, graduated a year or so ago. I'm certain if researched you'd find many others.

This is completely and 100% irrelevant. Who's suggesting that athletes can't make it into business school? Not me. There are plenty of athletes who have what it takes to make into business/law/grad/med school and plenty of athletes who don't - just like the rest of the student body. I wish we still had Greer next year because I want our lacrosse team to crush all our opponents by 25 points. I hope he does well at his new school because the kid gave us some good years at Duke.

Your rip of FDA is totally uncalled for.

You know what's uncalled for? Suggesting there's something shady going on here when there's absolutely zero evidence to support it. It's no better than the "I heard player X might transfer" stuff we deal with every offseason.

[Inonehand]

Looks like an argument, not a rip, to me. I do wish the best for Greer - I just hope that if he were accepted by Fuqua, it was because of his academic credentials primarily and his athletic accomplishments second. It should take more than "ok" grades, GMAT, and essays to get into a top business school, and while Greer perhaps did better than ok, it's not fair to assume he did simply because he was a Duke student.

But again, I hope the Bryant decision turns out to be a good one for him. It was fun following him for a few years.

Argument, rip, whatever. It is being poorly handled.

As for your hope listed above, let's not get too overboard on the academic credentials over athletic ones debate...even at Duke we DO know many of the athletes wouldn't get into undergrad here based on their academic credentials only. There are many other things looked at, including athletics. To say we shouldn't do that for 5th year students wanting to go to grad school is drawing a line in quicksand.

[JD79]

Has anyone discussed how he can transfer to another school and not sit out a year as a transfer student? Did he (and others) get special permission to bypass that standard?

[FireOgilvie]

Has anyone discussed how he can transfer to another school and not sit out a year as a transfer student? Did he (and others) get special permission to bypass that standard?

That rule doesn't exist for lacrosse... only basketall and football (I believe).

Also, I don't think it would matter because he already graduated from Duke and is pursuing a graduate degree.

[Regenman]

I'm going to chime in here since I took classes with Quin Snyder back at Duke Law and at Fuqua.

Making an assessment of Zach's suitability (and perhaps comparing it to Quin) because he has over a 3.0 is a crock of @#$@. Quin was a pretty damn smart guy that got a double major at Duke and was an Academic All American.

Let's be clear, Quin had "business work experience" before entering the JD/MBA track. It was called trying out for the NBA and also working at the Duke Management Company. Both experiences that are not reflected necessarily in the student body at Fuqua. Trust me, varsity college athletes at Fuqua and Duke Law are a dime a dozen. Off the top of my head, I can name of Sonja Henning (Stanford national champ, WNBA), Eric Riley (backup center at UM to Webber), and lots of Princeton varsity athletes (at least 2 women on the volleyball team and one center from the bball team) as folks in my classes that I played pick-up ball or IM volleyball with while at Duke. That's not even talking about the Duke Law loaded IM team which consisted entirely of folks that were varsity b-ballers in college.

So stop using Quin as a potential barometer for Zach, it's not even remotely the same thing. [PS throw in that stint playing for the GBA, serving on Coach K's staff, and that one year with the LA Clippers--think Greer has that on his resume?]

[DukieInKansas]

It doesn't matter whether he could or couldn't get in to Fuqua. He has decided to attend Bryant. Would I like to see him at Duke for another year - you bet! However, he has chosen to go to Bryant for his 5th year of eligibility. What is the point of discussing whether he did or didn't apply or whether he could or couldn't get in?

Thank you, Zach, for the fun of watching you play in a Duke uniform. I hope you enjoy playing with Coach Pressler next year. I hope you have a successful year (unless you play Duke ). Best of luck in all you do.

[Inonehand]

I'm going to chime in here since I took classes with Quin Snyder back at Duke Law and at Fuqua.

Making an assessment of Zach's suitability (and perhaps comparing it to Quin) because he has over a 3.0 is a crock of @#$@. Quin was a pretty damn smart guy that got a double major at Duke and was an Academic All American.

Let's be clear, Quin had "business work experience" before entering the JD/MBA track. It was called trying out for the NBA and also working at the Duke Management Company. Both experiences that are not reflected necessarily in the student body at Fuqua. Trust me, varsity college athletes at Fuqua and Duke Law are a dime a dozen. Off the top of my head, I can name of Sonja Henning (Stanford national champ, WNBA), Eric Riley (backup center at UM to Webber), and lots of Princeton varsity athletes (at least 2 women on the volleyball team and one center from the bball team) as folks in my classes that I played pick-up ball or IM volleyball with while at Duke. That's not even talking about the Duke Law loaded IM team which consisted entirely of folks that were varsity b-ballers in college.

So stop using Quin as a potential barometer for Zach, it's not even remotely the same thing. [PS throw in that stint playing for the GBA, serving on Coach K's staff, and that one year with the LA Clippers--think Greer has that on his resume?]

Geez, did you take classes with him or stalk him. I think Quin was brought up just once, and other names as well so your post seems a little overboard. I know Quin well, and you are right, he was a very good student but had very little work experience prior to Fuqua, albeit more than Zach. There have been plenty of students (athletes and not) that have gone straight to business school without prior experience and have done very well, in school and post.

[Regenman]

Inonehand,

If you want to insult me with the stalker comment, let me treat you appropriately.

Since you seem to think that Wander "ripped" FDA, maybe you should be the one reassessing your reading ability (or heck your ability to count). Quin came up twice and FDA was using him as a "relevant" example on which to base Zach's application to Fuqua. That's why I think it was an apt statement to note that Academic All American is considerably more prestigious that ACC Honor Roll and the subsequent comments about other varsity athletes at Fuqua and Duke Law.

I'll reiterate Clipsfan. There are not lots of folks right out of undergrad at any of the top b-schools. I just have no idea where you're pulling that idea out of. I'm pretty close to the admissions at Stanford B-school and there's not a hint of a 22 year old in the Stanford classes. Fuqua is a little different but not by much. Duke Law, on the other hand, has a very large proportion of students that go straight in from undergrad.

As for stalking, frankly Quin was in a 10 person seminar class of mine 3rd year and had to borrow my notes extensively. My 3 man volleyball team also beat his team when they finally got the court going back in 94. Feel free to call that stalking, but he was the main celebrity in that class and everybody knew his background. Feel free to throw more insults my way.

[Thurber Whyte]

I do not know about the Fuqua angle. The rumor I heard around tournament time was that Zack Greer was leaning toward going to Ohio State. That may have changed when Ohio State’s coach moved to UNC. The reason I offer this is simply to point out that Duke may not have been Zack’s first choice or even his second. If it had been, I am sure that Duke could have found an appropriate academic pursuit for its all time leading scorer.

One reason cited was his desire to be closer to home. Smithfield, Rhode Island is about the same distance from Whitby, Ontario as Columbus, Ohio.

Before we get our knickers in a twist speculating about exactly what a hypothetical application by him to Fuqua might look like, keep in mind that there are not one but several variables on both sides of the equation. I am very sorry to see him go. However, I want him to do what is best for him and Bryant sounds like a very good situation.

Also, I do not think there is no different rule for lacrosse. I believe that, in any sport, once a player graduates, they are free to immediately use whatever eligibility they have at another school. A Duke football player did this a few years ago. He graduated and played for Youngstown State the following season.

[Inonehand]

Inonehand,

If you want to insult me with the stalker comment, let me treat you appropriately.

Since you seem to think that Wander "ripped" FDA, maybe you should be the one reassessing your reading ability (or heck your ability to count). Quin came up twice and FDA was using him as a "relevant" example on which to base Zach's application to Fuqua. That's why I think it was an apt statement to note that Academic All American is considerably more prestigious that ACC Honor Roll and the subsequent comments about other varsity athletes at Fuqua and Duke Law.

I'll reiterate Clipsfan. There are not lots of folks right out of undergrad at any of the top b-schools. I just have no idea where you're pulling that idea out of. I'm pretty close to the admissions at Stanford B-school and there's not a hint of a 22 year old in the Stanford classes. Fuqua is a little different but not by much. Duke Law, on the other hand, has a very large proportion of students that go straight in from undergrad.

As for stalking, frankly Quin was in a 10 person seminar class of mine 3rd year and had to borrow my notes extensively. My 3 man volleyball team also beat his team when they finally got the court going back in 94. Feel free to call that stalking, but he was the main celebrity in that class and everybody knew his background. Feel free to throw more insults my way.

Actually, I thought the stalker comment was funny as opposed to insulting but thin skin abounds on this board so I will refrain. Comparing an Academic All-America in basketball to an ACC Honor Roll student in lax is actually not that inappropriate however. Lax is full of non-scholarship kids who start and star and got into school NEARLY on their own while basketball players in the NCAA get a pretty much free pass into school as long as they can read and write and add. Was Quin in that last category, no, absolutely not. Is it easier to rank above the majority of hoops stars academically than lax players if you remotely resemble the average student at your university and apply yourself, absolutely. Quin happened to be in THAT category. I am proud to call him a fellow Duke alum. And fellow Fuqua alum.

[blazindw]

Has anyone discussed how he can transfer to another school and not sit out a year as a transfer student? Did he (and others) get special permission to bypass that standard?

That rule doesn't exist for lacrosse... only basketall and football (I believe).

Also, I don't think it would matter because he already graduated from Duke and is pursuing a graduate degree.

You're right FO...because he's graduated, he's free to use his last year of eligibility at any post-graduate school he wishes, and doesn't have to sit out a year. You see this a lot in football (some recent Duke examples are Shawn Johnson--not the gymnast--and Ben Patrick, both of whom played their 5th year at Delaware). Basketball also has this rule.

Had Zach Greer been a junior when he transferred, he would have to sit out a year. IIRC, Colin Finnerty and Reade Seligmann would have had to sit out a year, but got permission from the NCAA to transfer immediately due to the lacrosse situation.

[Inonehand]

You're right FO...because he's graduated, he's free to use his last year of eligibility at any post-graduate school he wishes, and doesn't have to sit out a year. You see this a lot in football (some recent Duke examples are Shawn Johnson--not the gymnast--and Ben Patrick, both of whom played their 5th year at Delaware). Basketball also has this rule.

Had Zach Greer been a junior when he transferred, he would have to sit out a year. IIRC, Colin Finnerty and Reade Seligmann would have had to sit out a year, but got permission from the NCAA to transfer immediately due to the lacrosse situation.

This is all incorrect. Except for basketball, ice hockey, football and starting this year baseball, I believe, a Div I athlete can use a one-time transfer to any school he or she wishes and become immediately eligible. The only reason Patrick and Johnson and others like them were able to play immediately is because they transferred to schools not in the Football Subdivision (using the older, more understandable monikers, they went from Div IA to Div IAA. The graduation piece of it did not come into play. Simply put, the old school just has to release you. Now, if a walkon hoops player who was not recruited and not given a scholarship wanted to transfer, I believe he/she would be able to play immediately as well. It has to do with not signing a letter of intent.

[Bluedog]

That rule doesn't exist for lacrosse... only basketall and football (I believe).

Also, I don't think it would matter because he already graduated from Duke and is pursuing a graduate degree.

Exactly. Can we please rename this thread? Its misleading in that it suggests he is transferring. He's not transferring - he already graduated.