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Thread: World Cup 2018

  1. #521
    Quote Originally Posted by pfrduke View Post
    France's defense is really, really good.
    Indeed. They looked faster and stronger than Belgium.

  2. #522
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    Belgium had a good start, but they couldn't parlay their ball control into scoring chances...so talk about rivalries, if the English make it was Croatia, 800 years of off and on hostilities can resume between these two sides. I just enjoyed watching a decent game today which was unmarred by some of the ludicrous theatrics seen in previous tiffs in this Coupe.

  3. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by pfrduke View Post
    France's defense is really, really good.
    Yep, with the defense that strong and Lloris apparently able to stop anything heading for the net, they seemed pretty unbeatable.

    I really liked them - except for their antics to burn clock at the end of the game. There's always some of that in that type of situation, but I think that was about as bad as I've ever seen it.

  4. #524
    Quote Originally Posted by Ggallagher View Post
    Yep, with the defense that strong and Lloris apparently able to stop anything heading for the net, they seemed pretty unbeatable.

    I really liked them - except for their antics to burn clock at the end of the game. There's always some of that in that type of situation, but I think that was about as bad as I've ever seen it.
    There were no excessive antics. I saw lots of the equivalent of stall ball, a little showboating, and lots of delays, but nothing excessive or unfair (or more than yellow card worthy, which earned a foul to the head in response).

    Even when they were killing time, France was able to keep Belgium off the ball and get into spots where they could . . . kill time.
    Carolina delenda est

  5. #525
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    France is an impressive team, and full of likable guys(Pogba doing solid two way work, Griezmann checking back in the penalty area on non set pieces, etc). But Mbappe, despite having a strong start to the tourney and looking like a young Henry does now show a bit of learning from teammate Neymar(and thats not a complement)

  6. #526
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deslok View Post
    France is an impressive team, and full of likable guys(Pogba doing solid two way work, Griezmann checking back in the penalty area on non set pieces, etc). But Mbappe, despite having a strong start to the tourney and looking like a young Henry does now show a bit of learning from teammate Neymar(and thats not a complement)
    I felt the same way, Mbappe came down a few pegs in my estimation with his late game antics. I'm sure that's keeping him up tonight!

  7. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by dudog84 View Post
    I felt the same way, Mbappe came down a few pegs in my estimation with his late game antics. I'm sure that's keeping him up tonight!
    That's how it hit me too. I did lose some respect for him with his screwing around in the closing minutes. And he'll feel just fine when the championship game starts. Should be a great match. Hope to see England and France go head to head.

  8. #528
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    You guys found what Mbappe did at the end of the game to be frustrating? That's pretty standard stuff. He was simply killing time. Varane was the best player on the pitch for me, but Mbappe was second. His pass from the edge of the area to Giroud in the box was other-worldly.

    Funny that Pogba was mentioned as likable. Not sure I've heard that one before!

  9. #529
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    as one of the commentators said (during a rare moment of watching with the sound on), this has become a Coupe of many scores from set pieces...everyone must be warming up their noggins pregame...Inglish got some solid heads on their side for sure...

  10. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by luburch View Post
    Funny that Pogba was mentioned as likable. Not sure I've heard that one before!
    Lol, thought the same thing.

  11. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by luburch View Post
    You guys found what Mbappe did at the end of the game to be frustrating? That's pretty standard stuff. He was simply killing time. Varane was the best player on the pitch for me, but Mbappe was second. His pass from the edge of the area to Giroud in the box was other-worldly.

    Funny that Pogba was mentioned as likable. Not sure I've heard that one before!
    How many people who get upset about time wasting have a problem with taking a knee in football? What about the QB staying upright for an extra few seconds before taking a knee so that the game clock will be lower than the play clock? What about intentionally committing pass interference to prevent a TD? How about fouling at the end of basketball games?

    To be clear, I don't exactly enjoy time wasting (much as I don't necessarily enjoy the plays listed above), but some folks act like it ruins the game or is some huge problem when you can find parallels in any popular sport. Faking injuries is a little different (that happens in football too by the way), and does more to take away from the game. Worth noting though that just like basketball, there is a difference between selling a foul (which I think is fine, and in some cases necessary to get the call) and "flopping".

    And yes, not necessarily the usual take on Pogba.

  12. #532
    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    How many people who get upset about time wasting have a problem with taking a knee in football? What about the QB staying upright for an extra few seconds before taking a knee so that the game clock will be lower than the play clock? What about intentionally committing pass interference to prevent a TD? How about fouling at the end of basketball games?
    Among the criticisms I have of futbol, clock wasting at the end of a game is way down the list. Not a big deal. I don't know whether the analogy above holds, however, because no other sport has a continuously running clock. If it were the case that the clock stopped when the ball went over the end line and didn't start again until the goalkeeper took his free kick and put it back in play, that would be different. As it is, however, a stalling team can change the guy taking the inbounds pass, ask for a different ball, overplay the tumble after being fouled, walk to the free kick spot instead of jog, etc., all while the clock is moving. There's not really an equivalent to that in basketball or football or hockey, where either the game is live and the clock's running, or the ball/puck is dead and the clock's stopped. There is a qualitative difference between delays that seek to prevent the game from actually being played while the clock runs, and those that seek to maximize the ticking off of time while the ball is in play. [To be clear, I have no issue whatsoever with playing keepaway, booting the ball far downfield or out of bounds or whatever else can happen in the run of play that intentionally burns time. I don't think that's what anyone else was alluding to, but I don't personally recall what it is the Mbappe did yesterday that seems to be the source of concern]

    That said, soccer players can do that stuff outside the last few minutes of the game, too. It always takes several seconds for a team to retrieve the out of bounds ball and put it back into play, and guys lie around on the grass for 15 seconds after getting tripped up all the time. That running clock, no action happening time is just part of the game. As long as those things happening at the end of the game aren't killing an egregiously longer number of seconds than they do in the middle of the game, there's really not much to complain about. You wouldn't want a running clock when the ball goes out of bounds at 54 minutes, and then a stopping clock when the ball goes out of bounds in the 86th minute (a discrepancy in the treatment of time that, though I understand the policy behind it, bothers me about American football).

  13. #533
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    It's still better than the Four Corners.

  14. #534

    So, Viva La France?

    I'm a little torn here. I picked France in my family draft, where the winner gets to choose the location of a dinner out, and I drafted them with the first pick, so I honestly thought they were going to win and so stand to look smart if they do. I also like them, for reasons laid out way upthread.

    But I kind of want England to win, too. I'm not really an Anglophile, and my wife has them in our family pool, so I stand to lose significantly on the $ front if she's the one picking a dinner spot. So I'm not sure why my heart's telling me to root for them.

    And I'd have no problem with Croatia pulling off an underdog victory to expand the meager membership of the World Cup Winning Nations Club.

    Oh, well. Can't lose, I guess? I'm just not used to a Final Four where my longstanding antagonism toward at least a couple of teams/schools/players/nations has me actively pulling against one or two of the teams. How refreshing.

  15. #535
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
    Among the criticisms I have of futbol, clock wasting at the end of a game is way down the list. Not a big deal. I don't know whether the analogy above holds, however, because no other sport has a continuously running clock. If it were the case that the clock stopped when the ball went over the end line and didn't start again until the goalkeeper took his free kick and put it back in play, that would be different. As it is, however, a stalling team can change the guy taking the inbounds pass, ask for a different ball, overplay the tumble after being fouled, walk to the free kick spot instead of jog, etc., all while the clock is moving. There's not really an equivalent to that in basketball or football or hockey, where either the game is live and the clock's running, or the ball/puck is dead and the clock's stopped. There is a qualitative difference between delays that seek to prevent the game from actually being played while the clock runs, and those that seek to maximize the ticking off of time while the ball is in play. [To be clear, I have no issue whatsoever with playing keepaway, booting the ball far downfield or out of bounds or whatever else can happen in the run of play that intentionally burns time. I don't think that's what anyone else was alluding to, but I don't personally recall what it is the Mbappe did yesterday that seems to be the source of concern]

    That said, soccer players can do that stuff outside the last few minutes of the game, too. It always takes several seconds for a team to retrieve the out of bounds ball and put it back into play, and guys lie around on the grass for 15 seconds after getting tripped up all the time. That running clock, no action happening time is just part of the game. As long as those things happening at the end of the game aren't killing an egregiously longer number of seconds than they do in the middle of the game, there's really not much to complain about. You wouldn't want a running clock when the ball goes out of bounds at 54 minutes, and then a stopping clock when the ball goes out of bounds in the 86th minute (a discrepancy in the treatment of time that, though I understand the policy behind it, bothers me about American football).
    I wasn't necessarily trying to draw a direct comparison to time wasting in other sports (which is why I included the pass interference and basketball end of game fouling examples), the comparison was meant to be more along the lines of tactics used to win games in other sports that don't necessarily align with the "spirit" of the game but are still allowed under the rules. I will quibble with your notion that there isn't an equivalent to dead ball running clock in American Football...more time runs off during dead ball situations than does during live action! Agreed that there is a huge difference between playing keep-away to kill time and intentional stalling during dead balls or "injuries".

    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
    I'm a little torn here. I picked France in my family draft, where the winner gets to choose the location of a dinner out, and I drafted them with the first pick, so I honestly thought they were going to win and so stand to look smart if they do. I also like them, for reasons laid out way upthread.

    But I kind of want England to win, too. I'm not really an Anglophile, and my wife has them in our family pool, so I stand to lose significantly on the $ front if she's the one picking a dinner spot. So I'm not sure why my heart's telling me to root for them.

    And I'd have no problem with Croatia pulling off an underdog victory to expand the meager membership of the World Cup Winning Nations Club.

    Oh, well. Can't lose, I guess? I'm just not used to a Final Four where my longstanding antagonism toward at least a couple of teams/schools/players/nations has me actively pulling against one or two of the teams. How refreshing.
    I also "drafted" France with the first pick, and unless Croatia wins the whole thing I'll end up with the #1 pick in my fantasy football league (woohoo)! So given that the outcome doesn't matter much anymore, who would I pull for between France and England? My gut tells me it should be England, I have a few English friends who would be ecstatic. That said, I feel like England fans generally will be insufferable for the full four years until the next WC if they win, where the French will be less so (and significantly less visible to me, at least, even if they are) so I have to go France, Croatia, England in win preference.

  16. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mal View Post
    [To be clear, I have no issue whatsoever with playing keepaway, booting the ball far downfield or out of bounds or whatever else can happen in the run of play that intentionally burns time. I don't think that's what anyone else was alluding to, but I don't personally recall what it is the Mbappe did yesterday that seems to be the source of concern]
    Have a look here.

    Mbappe worked in front of two Belgium defenders before running out of space on the sideline. Belgium was awarded the throw, but Mbappe picked the ball up and conveniently dropped the ball towards goal.

    Rather than just let the ball go, Mbappe continued to dribble the ball into the box
    Up until the ball goes out of bounds, MBappe is doing nothing wrong. The moment it goes out and he essentially runs away with the ball to keep Belgium from throwing it back in, that is when he has most assuredly gone outside the rules and outside the bounds of sportsmanship.

    The ball goes out of bounds at +1:43 of stoppage time. It would be about 15 seconds until Belgium gets to throw it back in (partly because of Mbappe's antics and partly because the ref took time to give him a yellow). Is that :15 going to make a huge difference? Probably not, but I don't see Mbappe being all that upset about earning that yellow either. Thanks to FIFA wiping the previous yellow cards off the books for the semi-final, that one yellow will not cause Mbappe to sit out the final.

    -Jason "about all it cost him was some of his reputation in the public" Evans
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  17. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    How many people who get upset about time wasting have a problem with taking a knee in football? What about the QB staying upright for an extra few seconds before taking a knee so that the game clock will be lower than the play clock? What about intentionally committing pass interference to prevent a TD? How about fouling at the end of basketball games?

    To be clear, I don't exactly enjoy time wasting (much as I don't necessarily enjoy the plays listed above), but some folks act like it ruins the game or is some huge problem when you can find parallels in any popular sport. Faking injuries is a little different (that happens in football too by the way), and does more to take away from the game. Worth noting though that just like basketball, there is a difference between selling a foul (which I think is fine, and in some cases necessary to get the call) and "flopping".

    And yes, not necessarily the usual take on Pogba.
    The examples given are not parallels by any stretch of the imagination.

    Re knee: The team with possession gets 4 downs. They can do anything they please with those 4 downs. If the other team was wise with their timeouts, they can affect that strategy.

    Re QB: See knee.

    Re pass interference: A penalty is called. The offense gets the ball one yard from the goal. With 4 new downs. If the penalty occurs with time expired, the offense gets to run another play (the game cannot end on a defensive penalty).

    Re basketball fouls: The other team gets free throws. If egregious enough (a technical), they also get the ball back. Although I will admit I would love to see 2 free throws and the ball after 12 fouls (or the option to take the ball out). This strategy is a dark mark on Jimmy V's legacy ().

    Two incidents stick in my mind re Mbappe. The worst was when he was dribbling the ball away from Belgium in the corner when it was Belgium's ball to take out for a corner or throw-in. It was done with a little mincing step, I thought it was terrible sportsmanship. And may I point out that if a basketball player were to do that he would get slapped with a technical and the clock would be adjusted. We see players warned all the time about messing with the ball after it has gone through the hoop, typically one warning (if it's not too obvious) then an automatic technical.

    The other incident is when he went down like a sack of potatoes grabbing his head when the replay showed he had barely been touched, certainly not hit in the head.

    One thing where soccer has other sports beat by a country mile: The last 2 minutes takes 2 minutes. No timeouts, no fouls to extend the game, no switching pitchers after every batter, etc.

    Edit: Jason beat me somewhat (with a video link no less), I type too slow...or too much.
    Last edited by dudog84; 07-11-2018 at 01:10 PM.

  18. #538
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    The incident re: the throw in has been gone over and anyone doing so is being unsportsmanlike, but my reference to Mbappe being Neymaresque was more about the run of play than the stall tactics(which happen everywhere,some worse than others), but he also went down very easily several times and has done so in a number of matches. Now admittedly, he did't spend 14 minutes on the ground, but he does seem to overly exaggerate contact like he was mauled when he is barely touched.

  19. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acymetric View Post
    I also "drafted" France with the first pick, and unless Croatia wins the whole thing I'll end up with the #1 pick in my fantasy football league (woohoo)! So given that the outcome doesn't matter much anymore, who would I pull for between France and England? My gut tells me it should be England, I have a few English friends who would be ecstatic. That said, I feel like England fans generally will be insufferable for the full four years until the next WC if they win, where the French will be less so (and significantly less visible to me, at least, even if they are) so I have to go France, Croatia, England in win preference.
    It always amuses me when one chooses to avoid their own relatively minor discomfort over choosing in favor of their friends' ecstasy! I'm not calling you out, Acymetric, because I do it too. But this part of human nature amuses me.
    Rich
    "Failure is Not a Destination"
    Coach K on the Dan Patrick Show, December 22, 2016

  20. #540
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    Has anyone ever seen a trippier goal?

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