Who Stays - Who Goes

[BD80]

Ok, this one may be actual news! The social media hype train just posted Wendell’s vid. Note the caption:

😈0️⃣ made his mark in Year 1 & the best is yet to come ✊👀

https://www.facebook.com/10287582445...4456/?vh=e&d=n

Best is yet to come?!?! That’s pretty damn clear, no?

So … more Moore?

[proelitedota]

YES YES YES
-Jack Nichols

[UrinalCake]

If there’s a better moment than his winner in Chapel Hell, I can’t wait to see it!

[CarmenWallaceWade]

So … more Moore?

That can’t Hurt. Love how that kid Careys himself.

[Duke79UNLV77]

Ok, this one may be actual news! The social media hype train just posted Wendell’s vid. Note the caption:

😈0️⃣ made his mark in Year 1 & the best is yet to come ✊👀

https://www.facebook.com/10287582445...4456/?vh=e&d=n

Best is yet to come?!?! That’s pretty damn clear, no?

Didn’t Moore post a while ago on social media that he’s returning? As Tape showed, someone always can change his mind, but I’m assuming Moore will be back and just looking for updates on the others.

[budwom]

hard to imagine Moore leaving anyway, but anything's possible..good to have him back if true...

[flyingdutchdevil]

Didn’t Moore post a while ago on social media that he’s returning? As Tape showed, someone always can change his mind, but I’m assuming Moore will be back and just looking for updates on the others.

Nothing official. Lots of hints, including posts from both him and Duke Basketball.

I think the only player who has officially announced he’s returning is the Baker.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Nothing official. Lots of hints, including posts from both him and Duke Basketball.

I think the only player who has officially announced he’s returning is the Baker.

It should not be surprising to hear that Jordan Goldwire has more or less said he's coming back. He retweeted a Tre Jones tweet, referencing Jones being named a National Defensive Player of the Year candidate:

My boy going after it next year @j_gold11

Give me a team with Goldwire, Baker, Hurt, Moore, and the 6 freshmen. That's going to be a tough team with a lot of weapons. It reminds me of the 2008 Kansas and 1998 Kentucky squads. Lots and quality depth. Weapons at every position. The sum is greater than the individual pieces.

[flyingdutchdevil]

It should not be surprising to hear that Jordan Goldwire has more or less said he's coming back. He retweeted a Tre Jones tweet, referencing Jones being named a National Defensive Player of the Year candidate:



Give me a team with Goldwire, Baker, Hurt, Moore, and the 6 freshmen. That's going to be a tough team with a lot of weapons. It reminds me of the 2008 Kansas and 1998 Kentucky squads. Lots and quality depth. Weapons at every position. The sum is greater than the individual pieces.

It’s a really nice core. I’m convinced Moore is coming back and I’m really optimistic about Hurt. I have no idea about Stanley. I was 99% convinced he’s gone, but his social media is sending mixed messages. Plus, even though he’s older, I feel like he knows he can be so much more than the ‘3 and D’ player he’s being labeled as.

With Stanley, that is a super switchable team with really diverse pieces. Also, with Stanley, Moore, and Goldwire, you have the foundation for a top 10 defensive team.

[uh_no]

Give me a team with Goldwire, Baker, Hurt, Moore, and the 6 freshmen. That's going to be a tough team with a lot of weapons. It reminds me of the 2008 Kansas and 1998 Kentucky squads. Lots and quality depth. Weapons at every position. The sum is greater than the individual pieces.

i'm sure someone last year said "give me a team with jones, jack, javin, alex, goldwire and a bunch of freshmen, it'll be a tough team with a lot of weapons"

While it was somewhat true, it also wasn't exactly a world-beating group.

I have to see significant improvement from the 4 your listed in some aspect of the game before i'll think it can be the core of a team similar to the two title teams you listed. Two of those guys found themselves riding the pine more often than not in crunch time, and one of the guys who did see time was extremely limited offensively.

I'm not saying these guys can't improve, but comparing them to the core of the listed title teams is a bit absurd given their overall body of work so far.

[JosephReidBooks]

I've been pretty surprised at the lack of declarations by Duke players compared to those of other schools (e.g., UK). Is there any chance that uncertainty over when pro sports will restart is the reason we're seeing this year's players at Duke hold off from declaring (other than Tre)? Do we think maybe the players (or the Duke people advising them) are waiting to see how all the events of the day play out before committing to such a big-time decision? And does that mean we're all going to waiting a lot longer to figure out who's coming back?

[scottdude8]

i'm sure someone last year said "give me a team with jones, jack, javin, alex, goldwire and a bunch of freshmen, it'll be a tough team with a lot of weapons"

While it was somewhat true, it also wasn't exactly a world-beating group.

I have to see significant improvement from the 4 your listed in some aspect of the game before i'll think it can be the core of a team similar to the two title teams you listed. Two of those guys found themselves riding the pine more often than not in crunch time, and one of the guys who did see time was extremely limited offensively.

I'm not saying these guys can't improve, but comparing them to the core of the listed title teams is a bit absurd given their overall body of work so far.

You’re 100% right, but I think there will be a difference in “top-tier” talent in next years squad. Every projection I’ve seen has Johnson as a top-5 draft pick in 2021, and most have a sophomore Wendell as a lottery pick. And Hurt and Cassius could both be solid first rounders with improvement in their sophomore years. As much as we all love Tre and Vern, we noted throughout the year that neither has the type of “game breaking” talent that some of our previous top young players (like Zion, Tatum, Jahlil, etc) had. Johnson and potentially an improved Wendell at least have the potential to be at that level.

Next year’s team will have a lot of similarities to this year’s, as you mentioned. I think the con will be less depth up front and less effective experience at the PG slot (yes JG is a senior but when he played big minutes it was alongside Tre primarily), but the pro will be more “lottery-caliber” NBA talent. That could possibly address your concerns.

[Ultrarunner]

So … more Moore?

S'Moore

[dm9e24]

Stanley has a much better chance of being a lottery pick than Wendell next year. As a sophomore, he would be right there with Jalen as the best players on the team. I may even put a sophomore Hurt and Steward as higher draft picks than Wendell, according to how their growth goes.

But bottom line is that we are going to have more balance offensively than last year and with Stanley back, the potential to be a top defensive team. Some how I think the staff will figure out the weakness at the 5.

[uh_no]

You’re 100% right, but I think there will be a difference in “top-tier” talent in next years squad. Every projection I’ve seen has Johnson as a top-5 draft pick in 2021, and most have a sophomore Wendell as a lottery pick. And Hurt and Cassius could both be solid first rounders with improvement in their sophomore years. As much as we all love Tre and Vern, we noted throughout the year that neither has the type of “game breaking” talent that some of our previous top young players (like Zion, Tatum, Jahlil, etc) had. Johnson and potentially an improved Wendell at least have the potential to be at that level.

Next year’s team will have a lot of similarities to this year’s, as you mentioned. I think the con will be less depth up front and less effective experience at the PG slot (yes JG is a senior but when he played big minutes it was alongside Tre primarily), but the pro will be more “lottery-caliber” NBA talent. That could possibly address your concerns.

I'm totally on board, I think the ceiling on these guys is very very high. The floor is their current performance, though, and that's a lot lower than, say, where tre was when he returned this year.

My only disagreement with your post is about the implication that a PG's need of game breaking talent. IMO in college, the biggest value a PG can provide is defense and the ability to run the offense. anything else is a bonus. I would have traded bagley and duval for 2020 tre, for instance. And the point isn't to short sell how phenomenal bagley was, but to highlight that an upgrade from a mediocre to a top notch college point guard might be as valuable as a game breaking player at another position, especially if the other players on the team are fairly talented...obviously the marginal return of an upgrade decreases the more talented the team is overall. Zion on coppin state is much more impactful than zion on duke.

[scottdude8]

I'm totally on board, I think the ceiling on these guys is very very high. The floor is their current performance, though, and that's a lot lower than, say, where tre was when he returned this year.

My only disagreement with your post is about the implication that a PG's need of game breaking talent. IMO in college, the biggest value a PG can provide is defense and the ability to run the offense. anything else is a bonus. I would have traded bagley and duval for 2020 tre, for instance. And the point isn't to short sell how phenomenal bagley was, but to highlight that an upgrade from a mediocre to a top notch college point guard might be as valuable as a game breaking player at another position, especially if the other players on the team are fairly talented...obviously the marginal return of an upgrade decreases the more talented the team is overall. Zion on coppin state is much more impactful than zion on duke.

I actually 100% agree with you there... I’ve long been a proponent of having a true “floor general” being more necessary than having a dynamic, scoring PG (way back when I was at The Chronicle I was one of the earlier advocates for Tyler Thornton haha). I don’t think that JG running the point will necessarily be a weakness for next years team, just that (obviously) we’ll be taking a step back having Tre (which is more a testament to Tre than a ding on JG or anyone else).

If our starting lineup in the Champions Classic next year is JG, Wendell, Jalen Johnson, Matt and Mark Williams I’ll be ecstatic about the potential of that team. Giving Roach and Steward the opportunity to grow into their roles on the perimeter rather than being just thrown into the fire is a massive luxury in today’s game. One of them will probably be starting come March, but JG’s presence will make all the difference in their development up to that point.

[Kedsy]

I actually 100% agree with you there... I’ve long been a proponent of having a true “floor general” being more necessary than having a dynamic, scoring PG (way back when I was at The Chronicle I was one of the earlier advocates for Tyler Thornton haha). I don’t think that JG running the point will necessarily be a weakness for next years team, just that (obviously) we’ll be taking a step back having Tre (which is more a testament to Tre than a ding on JG or anyone else).

If our starting lineup in the Champions Classic next year is JG, Wendell, Jalen Johnson, Matt and Mark Williams I’ll be ecstatic about the potential of that team. Giving Roach and Steward the opportunity to grow into their roles on the perimeter rather than being just thrown into the fire is a massive luxury in today’s game. One of them will probably be starting come March, but JG’s presence will make all the difference in their development up to that point.

Jordan Goldwire has not shown himself to be a “floor general” in any way (neither did Tyler Thornton, by the way—he was a 3-and-D guy, all the way). Jordan is a defensive specialist. I’ll be very surprised if he starts over Jeremy Roach.

[Steven43]

Jordan Goldwire has not shown himself to be a “floor general” in any way (neither did Tyler Thornton, by the way—he was a 3-and-D guy, all the way). Jordan is a defensive specialist. I’ll be very surprised if he starts over Jeremy Roach.

From what I’ve seen Goldwire has (by Duke standards for a PG) average to below-average quickness, average to below-average handles, a below-average shot — both inside and out — and fairly rudimentary passing ability. His defense is probably above average as is his headiness. And I do think he has above-average leadership ability.

I like Jordan and I’m glad he attends Duke. He has made a lot of progress since his freshman year. I expect him to continue to improve and to be a valuable contributor to the 2020-2021 team.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

From what I’ve seen Goldwire has (by Duke standards for a PG) average to below-average quickness, average to below-average handles, a below-average shot — both inside and out — and fairly rudimentary passing ability. His defense is probably above average as is his headiness. And I do think he has above-average leadership ability.

I like Jordan and I’m glad he attends Duke. He has made a lot of progress since his freshman year. I expect him to continue to improve and to be a valuable contributor to the 2020-2021 team.

Jordan could be next season's Quinn.

[Steven43]

Jordan could be next season's Quinn.

I hope you’re right! Quinn Cook was an important part of the success of the 2014-2015 National Championship team. Duke would not have won without him.