Duke 105, Central Arkansas 54 - Post Game Thread

[kAzE]

As I mentioned on the most recent podcast, Cassius Stanley may be a freshman in terms of college experience, but he is more like a junior in terms of age. He is 20 years old already. He was born on August 18, 1999. For comparison purposes, Wendell Moore was born on September 18, 2001... more than two years after Cassius. Cassius will be legally drinking alcohol many months before RJ and Zion do.

This was one of the reasons his high school ranking was so low. Many scouts recognized his talent, but others knocked him down because of his age. He's clearly a better player than many of the guys who were ranked ahead of him, and maybe some of it was due to his age and the physical development that came with the extra two years, but he's also got some great basketball IQ and talent.

@JasonEvans: I was thinking about your question from the podcast, about who in Duke history is the closest comp for Cassius, and I really couldn't think of one. I went back and watched tape of Dahntay Jones and Gerald Henderson, but they were much more physical slashers than Cassius. They were often catching bodies on the way to the rim (and sometimes, famously for both of those guys, at the rim). I don't see Cassius doing that. He's more of slithery finisher, who utilizes spins and fakes to avoid contact rather than bulldoze his way through traffic the way those other guys did it. He has the explosiveness, but not quite the strength of some of our other high flyers in the past. I'll keep thinking about it, but I'm not quite sure who he resembles most.

[sagegrouse]

This was one of the reasons his high school ranking was so low. Many scouts recognized his talent, but others knocked him down because of his age. He's clearly a better player than many of the guys who were ranked ahead of him, and maybe some of it was due to his age and the physical development that came with the extra two years, but he's also got some great basketball IQ and talent.

@JasonEvans: I was thinking about your question from the podcast, about who in Duke history is the closest comp for Cassius, and I really couldn't think of one. I went back and watched tape of Dahntay Jones and Gerald Henderson, but they were much more physical slashers than Cassius. They were often catching bodies on the way to the rim (and sometimes, famously for both of those guys, at the rim). I don't see Cassius doing that. He's more of slithery finisher, who utilizes spins and fakes to avoid contact rather than bulldoze his way through traffic the way those other guys did it. He has the explosiveness, but not quite the strength of some of our other high flyers in the past. I'll keep thinking about it, but I'm not quite sure who he resembles most.

I mean, I understand why NBA scouts, looking for players who might be good or great for over a decade, would consider the age of a HS student. It seems much less germane for evaluation of future college players, who may play only one year. Yep, if HS evaluations are done during the senior year, a 19 YO might improve less before college than a 17 YO -- but this would seem to be a small consideration.

[azzefkram]

Nice win and really the first time Duke looked good on both offense and defense. I thought Jordan and Wendell did a nice job filling in for Tre. Wendell seemed to make better decisions with the ball. Wendell's game reminds me a bit of Demarcus Nelson's. Alex looked like he took a step back defensively. Jack and Javin did a lot of Jack and Javin things. Vernon looked good for the most part. Matt still gets pushed around but man can he score. Cassius continues to amaze. I'm not seeing the improvement I'd hoped for from Joey. His shot still looks good but pretty much everything else is a significant step down from his teammates'.

I like the full court pressure and I hope it is something that continues through the season. Given how Duke attacked the rim (43 shots), I am surprised we didn't shoot more free throws.

[ramdevil]

The only thing I disliked about tonight's game were those god awful commercials. Those have to be some of the crappiest products ever made and it reminds me of those lousy commercials you used to see at 3 AM in the morning way back when. The only thing missing was some black lady with a fake accent telling me to call her so she could tell my fortune and those enhanced young ladies asking me if I was lonely and if so to call them.

But they provided hilarity... I loved them. Reminded me of watching UHF tv (now I am dating myself).

-ramdevil

[BD80]

K from the post game comments: "“Tre looks pretty good and I don’t think it’s going to be a problem. I asked him what my name was and he said, ‘Michael’. That was pretty bold of him.”

From personal experience, having a warped sense of humor is of little use when in concussion protocol. Particularly if you don't remember making the same stupid joke an hour earlier.

[killerleft]

It took me a while watching the telecast, which I joined late in the first half, to be certain that Dan Bonner was the color commentator. Initially his vaguely familiar voice sounded weak, tired, and hoarse. Like an old man's. Don't intend to start a rumor, and I have no information, but is Bonner suffering some malady?

I recognized him immediately. Glad to see him doing ACC this year. He IS getting older. But maybe it was just that he made appropriate comments without having to shout. Welcome back, Mr. Bonner!

[Bomar]

The only thing I disliked about tonight's game were those god awful commercials. Those have to be some of the crappiest products ever made and it reminds me of those lousy commercials you used to see at 3 AM in the morning way back when. The only thing missing was some black lady with a fake accent telling me to call her so she could tell my fortune and those enhanced young ladies asking me if I was lonely and if so to call them.

The toy laser guns look pretty sweet, though. Ha.

(I bet they would break within 5 minutes of playing with them.)

[CDu]

My takeaways from the game:

- Stanley continues to impress. I'm still a bit inquisitive about his perimeter shooting; I don't think he's even attempted 5 shots outside of 10 feet. The shots he does take he makes, so no complaints so far. But the most impressive thing is that his defensive awareness is really advanced. Yes, I know that he's 2 years older than many/most freshmen. But that shouldn't affect his defensive IQ. The quality of coaching and opposition in high school and AAU ball is soooooo much lower than college that most players (regardless of age) come in having to learn how to play defense. But he appears to have a really good feel for that end of the court. Hopefully it continues.

- Nice to see Jones hit a 3, but I was more pleased to see him continue to hit his 15-18 foot shots. The continued success on those suggests that his shooting touch is improving. So hopefully that translates to the 3pt line eventually. He does pretty much everything else at an elite level for a college PG, so if he can just be okay from 3 that's a game-changer.

- Carey is just too good for a team as bad as Central Arkansas. He did whatever he wanted inside. As a big, he's got a steeper learning curve defensively. But he's clearly a really polished offensive player inside. I've liked what I've seen from him: 28 points (on 13-15 from the field) and 13 rebounds in 35 minutes against the two overmatched opponents. He wasn't superlative against KU, but given their size and experience I'm not concerned. For Carey, it's about defensive awareness and avoiding foul trouble. If he can manage those two things well enough, the sky is the limit at the college level.

- I still am not sure what to think about Hurt. The shooting stroke is obvious: he has a great touch from anywhere on the floor. But he's slow and skinny, and his game looks that way. I do wonder how well he'll hold up if teams put an athletic, physical, experienced, defensive-minded big wing (think like a Justise Winslow body/athleticism type), or gets him isolated with a big post guy when he's on defense. We've yet to really see a good test for him (KU turned it over too much to have any sort of cohesion; CSU and UCA are just too inferior). He seems to have a good feel for the game, but the physicality could be a concern once teams with talent start being able to gameplan us better. The lack of rebounds is a bit of a concern too, and related to the point above. I'm hopeful that his smarts will win out; just cautiously optimistic at the moment rather than all-in.

- The nice thing about the freshmen bigs though is that we have two seniors who can fill in admirably as needed. White is continuing his "do the little things" role well. DeLaurier doesn't seem to be much different in performance than last year, which is a bit concerning. But he's at least being more vocal, so that hopefully is helping the defense.

- Moore appears to be starting to figure it out. He clearly wasn't ready for the pace of the game against KU. He looked more involved against CSU, and really started to stuff the stat sheet against UCA. Obviously ACC teams are better than CSU and UCA, but hopefully he's starting to build his confidence and figure out the pace of the game. He's such a physical specimen that he can be a huge plus on the wing. He just needs to find the right balance of aggressiveness and composure against better teams.

- I thought O'Connell again looked the part of a regular last night. No, he didn't hit his open 3s at a super high rate. But I'm not concerned about that. He didn't seem to be a detriment defensively, and that's the big concern. If he's a net zero (or better) defensively, he should be in the rotation for his offense.

- Goldwire had a nice bounceback game after two duds. I don't expect a ton from him against better teams. But I don't expect much will be asked of him against better teams so long as Jones is healthy and not in foul trouble. As a disruptive presence against teams with shaky ballhandling, he has some value.

Overall, it was a fun win against an overmatched opponent. We jumped all over them early, took the game out of doubt, and cruised. The primary 9 rotation guys played well (or did what they were expected to do in the cases of DeLaurier and White). Let's hope that continues as the games get tougher!

[jimsumner]

It took me a while watching the telecast, which I joined late in the first half, to be certain that Dan Bonner was the color commentator. Initially his vaguely familiar voice sounded weak, tired, and hoarse. Like an old man's. Don't intend to start a rumor, and I have no information, but is Bonner suffering some malady?

I believe he purchased the night vision goggles and is suffering the consequences.

Seriously, K was quite hoarse after the game last night. Cold and flu season and all that. Something going round.

[English]

My takeaways from the game:

SNIP...

- Carey is just too good for a team as bad as Central Arkansas. He did whatever he wanted inside. As a big, he's got a steeper learning curve defensively. But he's clearly a really polished offensive player inside. I've liked what I've seen from him: 28 points (on 13-15 from the field) and 13 rebounds in 35 minutes against the two overmatched opponents. He wasn't superlative against KU, but given their size and experience I'm not concerned. For Carey, it's about defensive awareness and avoiding foul trouble. If he can manage those two things well enough, the sky is the limit at the college level.

I know I'm late to the party on this, but the announcers commented that this season is literally the first time that Vernon Carey Jr. has played primarily inside in his basketball career? Is that possibly right? I realize we're in the age of positionless, everyone-is-a-shooter, Euro-bigs, etc. ball, but the guy is 6'10 270#. He hasn't been a primary post presence before? His offense looks pretty smooth and his defense isn't a total catastrophe for a guy who's learning the fundamentals of playing inside for a short time. He's more mobile than his size would suggest, and it's possible he might not be a total liability for floor spacing with other non-shooters out there.

Overall, a fun game to watch--especially nice to see the shots falling. UCA isn't putting up much of a fight, but hopefully the shooting gives our guys confidence going forward. An encouraging step.

And not for nothing, but I thought the party line on the Boogie Ellis decommit was because Tre announced he was returning and Boogie wanted to play the 1? Of course, he chose a school with more options of primary ball handlers (Memphis), but there was no way he was going to be the guy at Duke with Tre on the roster. I could be misremembering, or that could've just been what was put out there, but I distinctly remember it was Tre, not Cash, that "chased" Boogie off.

[dukelifer]

My takeaways from the game:

- Stanley continues to impress. I'm still a bit inquisitive about his perimeter shooting; I don't think he's even attempted 5 shots outside of 10 feet. The shots he does take he makes, so no complaints so far. But the most impressive thing is that his defensive awareness is really advanced. Yes, I know that he's 2 years older than many/most freshmen. But that shouldn't affect his defensive IQ. The quality of coaching and opposition in high school and AAU ball is soooooo much lower than college that most players (regardless of age) come in having to learn how to play defense. But he appears to have a really good feel for that end of the court. Hopefully it continues.

- Nice to see Jones hit a 3, but I was more pleased to see him continue to hit his 15-18 foot shots. The continued success on those suggests that his shooting touch is improving. So hopefully that translates to the 3pt line eventually. He does pretty much everything else at an elite level for a college PG, so if he can just be okay from 3 that's a game-changer.

- Carey is just too good for a team as bad as Central Arkansas. He did whatever he wanted inside. As a big, he's got a steeper learning curve defensively. But he's clearly a really polished offensive player inside. I've liked what I've seen from him: 28 points (on 13-15 from the field) and 13 rebounds in 35 minutes against the two overmatched opponents. He wasn't superlative against KU, but given their size and experience I'm not concerned. For Carey, it's about defensive awareness and avoiding foul trouble. If he can manage those two things well enough, the sky is the limit at the college level.

- I still am not sure what to think about Hurt. The shooting stroke is obvious: he has a great touch from anywhere on the floor. But he's slow and skinny, and his game looks that way. I do wonder how well he'll hold up if teams put an athletic, physical, experienced, defensive-minded big wing (think like a Justise Winslow body/athleticism type), or gets him isolated with a big post guy when he's on defense. We've yet to really see a good test for him (KU turned it over too much to have any sort of cohesion; CSU and UCA are just too inferior). He seems to have a good feel for the game, but the physicality could be a concern once teams with talent start being able to gameplan us better. The lack of rebounds is a bit of a concern too, and related to the point above. I'm hopeful that his smarts will win out; just cautiously optimistic at the moment rather than all-in.

- The nice thing about the freshmen bigs though is that we have two seniors who can fill in admirably as needed. White is continuing his "do the little things" role well. DeLaurier doesn't seem to be much different in performance than last year, which is a bit concerning. But he's at least being more vocal, so that hopefully is helping the defense.

- Moore appears to be starting to figure it out. He clearly wasn't ready for the pace of the game against KU. He looked more involved against CSU, and really started to stuff the stat sheet against UCA. Obviously ACC teams are better than CSU and UCA, but hopefully he's starting to build his confidence and figure out the pace of the game. He's such a physical specimen that he can be a huge plus on the wing. He just needs to find the right balance of aggressiveness and composure against better teams.

- I thought O'Connell again looked the part of a regular last night. No, he didn't hit his open 3s at a super high rate. But I'm not concerned about that. He didn't seem to be a detriment defensively, and that's the big concern. If he's a net zero (or better) defensively, he should be in the rotation for his offense.

- Goldwire had a nice bounceback game after two duds. I don't expect a ton from him against better teams. But I don't expect much will be asked of him against better teams so long as Jones is healthy and not in foul trouble. As a disruptive presence against teams with shaky ballhandling, he has some value.

Overall, it was a fun win against an overmatched opponent. We jumped all over them early, took the game out of doubt, and cruised. The primary 9 rotation guys played well (or did what they were expected to do in the cases of DeLaurier and White). Let's hope that continues as the games get tougher!

I agree with all this. The D seems farther along than I had imagined and K is playing a lot of guys- trying to wear teams out. It was interesting to see Moore run the point for a while. He was competent, This team has a 80's blue collar feel to them and that could be okay. They lack a dominant player on O and in crunch time- it is not clear who will step up. Right now I expect Tre will make good decisions. I have liked what I have seen but need to see Duke against better competition.

[Tripping William]

And not for nothing, but I thought the party line on the Boogie Ellis decommit was because Tre announced he was returning and Boogie wanted to play the 1? Of course, he chose a school with more options of primary ball handlers (Memphis), but there was no way he was going to be the guy at Duke with Tre on the roster. I could be misremembering, or that could've just been what was put out there, but I distinctly remember it was Tre, not Cash, that "chased" Boogie off.

This is consistent with my recollection as well.

[JasonEvans]

@JasonEvans: I was thinking about your question from the podcast, about who in Duke history is the closest comp for Cassius, and I really couldn't think of one. I went back and watched tape of Dahntay Jones and Gerald Henderson, but they were much more physical slashers than Cassius. They were often catching bodies on the way to the rim (and sometimes, famously for both of those guys, at the rim). I don't see Cassius doing that. He's more of slithery finisher, who utilizes spins and fakes to avoid contact rather than bulldoze his way through traffic the way those other guys did it. He has the explosiveness, but not quite the strength of some of our other high flyers in the past. I'll keep thinking about it, but I'm not quite sure who he resembles most.

We have gotten a bunch of emails on my question of who Cassius reminds you of. We've gotten several Ricky Price, a few Corey Maggette, and a couple Gerald Hendersons. I still like my Dahntay Jones but I hear you that Cassius seems to have a little less bull and a little more gazelle.

No one is going to be the perfect comp.

[yootheman]

What about non-Duke comps? Is it blasphemous to say freshman year MJ?

[JayZee]

We have gotten a bunch of emails on my question of who Cassius reminds you of. We've gotten several Ricky Price, a few Corey Maggette, and a couple Gerald Hendersons. I still like my Dahntay Jones but I hear you that Cassius seems to have a little less bull and a little more gazelle.

No one is going to be the perfect comp.

Agreed. He is fast and stays in great balance. Fun to watch. He also seems to be a bit more modest (shy) than some of the other people in this list who may have bordered on brash...

Also, he seems more like 6'3" max. Not a really tall guy. I kind of like T Hill as a comp. Guard sized, not small forward. Strong, but not a bull. A little more on the quiet side. Great position, balance, quickness on D.

[rsvman]

I thought O'Connell looked hesitant and "steering" on his 3-pointers, which led to some pretty bad misses. He shoots a lot better when he is confident. He did not look confident last night, and I'm not really sure why.

I hope he returns to the old "let 'er fly!" shooting technique he displayed last year.

[UrinalCake]

Great quote from the Central Arkansas coach, talking about how hard Duke plays. For all the talent we’ve had over the past several years, I wouldn’t have always said that our OAD-heavy teams played hard. This year’s team really is different. I thought last year’s team was the best defensive team we’ve had in the OAD era, but that was primarily based on amazing individual talent. Don’t get me wrong, I love having amazing individual talent, but this year’s team goes about it a different way.

Link in case the image is too small

5B9F477C-C0E0-47D7-8573-672D048DAB8C.jpg

[Kedsy]

This team has a 80's blue collar feel to them and that could be okay.

It's worth noting that Duke's teams from 1985 to 1989 (the teams to which I assume you're referring) all had at least one first-, second-, or third-team All American player. The 1986 team had four guys who made an All-America team at some point in their career. The 1987 and 1989 teams had two such players.

So, maybe Tre Jones makes an All America team this season, maybe he doesn't. It's hard to see any of our other players rated as among the top 15 players in the country, though I suppose it's remotely possible. But those 1980s Duke teams were probably more star-studded than many of us remember.

[jimsumner]

It's worth noting that Duke's teams from 1985 to 1989 (the teams to which I assume you're referring) all had at least one first-, second-, or third-team All American player. The 1986 team had four guys who made an All-America team at some point in their career. The 1987 and 1989 teams had two such players.

So, maybe Tre Jones makes an All America team this season, maybe he doesn't. It's hard to see any of our other players rated as among the top 15 players in the country, though I suppose it's remotely possible. But those 1980s Duke teams were probably more star-studded than many of us remember.

1987? Not really. Sophomore Ferry eventually became an All-American but in 1987 he and Tommy Amaker were second-team All-ACC.

That's like saying Alaa Abdelnaby was an All-ACC player in 1987 because he became one in 1990.

Ferry and Abdelnaby were the only future NBA players on the 1987 and 1988 Duke teams and Alaa wasn't a major factor on either. That's not exactly a star-studded roster.

[Duke76]

We have gotten a bunch of emails on my question of who Cassius reminds you of. We've gotten several Ricky Price, a few Corey Maggette, and a couple Gerald Hendersons. I still like my Dahntay Jones but I hear you that Cassius seems to have a little less bull and a little more gazelle.

No one is going to be the perfect comp.

I go with Rodney Hood but he's my favorite freshman on the team...great temperament and hits all the right notes in interviews too