FB Coach Speculation

[53n206]

Good question but, I'm sure, like everybody else, they may be having trouble finding the "right person" for the job. I would think it is especially difficult when the job opens very suddenly and they may not have had a well-researched and vetted list of potential candidates in place. And probably doubly difficult at football powerhouse like OK where alumni and everyone else in the state expect a home-run hire.

Possibly because their successor to their ex-coach has a team playing this weekend, and he doesn't want to pull a"riley" on them and walk away suddenly.

[johnb]

There is lots of good ongoing discussion in this thread that I’m enjoying reading. It seems most speculation is centered on hiring a successful P5 coordinator and I’m okay with that path. I’m equally okay with a G5 head coach.

A huge consideration needs to be a candidate’s ability to hire a talented staff. I remain convinced Cutcliffe’s downfall was primarily a result of staff degradation the past five years or so.

I agree that Cut's initial roster of assistants was remarkable and almost all are now in excellent football jobs. Some got HC jobs, but they often left for equivalent jobs at bigger name (ie, P5 state or ND) football schools. Cut, himself, could easily have moved a few yrs ago.

Unlike Bama or OU, any successful Duke football coach (head or asst) is liable to move for an equivalent job at a P5 state school. That's what shocked OU fans; they could see Riley moving for the Dallas Cowboys but not for a 2nd tier program like USC (their 1st tier is very small).

When I look at our roster of possible coaches, I worry that they'll fail or that they'll succeed and leave, so that I worry about anyone who's left HC jobs after 1-2 years; coordinators at top 20 schools; and anyone who hasn't had experience at recruiting/selecting 3 star players (and their coaches/families) from the southeast. Which eliminates just about everybody.

[dukelifer]

All programs big and small will lose staff to new opportunities, to me its a sign of a healthy program. Alabama churns them out on a yearly basis, including their opponent's HC tomorrow.If you can hold onto one for a long time like Venables or Bud Foster, then thats great but its not expected.

Cutcliffe's sin was not losing Matt Luke or Jim Knowles or Mike MacIntyre, or even Kurt Roper and Scottie Montgomery, its to be expected. He struggled to replace them with quality assistants, and more importantly, when they were not performing to the level they needed to, he wouldn't make staff changes. Moving Trooper Taylor from WR to DB coach is the paradigm of shuffling the chairs on the deck of the Titanic.

If Duke gets a good head coach, that good head coach is going to hire good assistants. Those assistants will have new opportunities. We have to hope the HC can replace them with a worthy candidate, and if that person falls short, then the HC can make the changes that are necessary for the program.

Yes- but given that the pool of good assistants is limited- you need something to attract them. But how long do you give someone to prove themselves in this business. There is something to trying to maintain stability.

[cato]

I agree that Cut's initial roster of assistants was remarkable and almost all are now in excellent football jobs. Some got HC jobs, but they often left for equivalent jobs at bigger name (ie, P5 state or ND) football schools. Cut, himself, could easily have moved a few yrs ago.

Unlike Bama or OU, any successful Duke football coach (head or asst) is liable to move for an equivalent job at a P5 state school. That's what shocked OU fans; they could see Riley moving for the Dallas Cowboys but not for a 2nd tier program like USC (their 1st tier is very small).

When I look at our roster of possible coaches, I worry that they'll fail or that they'll succeed and leave, so that I worry about anyone who's left HC jobs after 1-2 years; coordinators at top 20 schools; and anyone who hasn't had experience at recruiting/selecting 3 star players (and their coaches/families) from the southeast. Which eliminates just about everybody.

A question I have been mulling over for a few days: would the Duke football program be in better shape today if Cutcliffe had moved on the Tennessee? He didn’t get the job, so the question is moot, but I know how happy I was when we managed to keep him.

Now, however, we have a rapidly deteriorating program — and the deterioration has picked up a lot of speed in the last 18 months. The outlook for the next two years is dire.

Where would we be today if Cutcliffe had moved on? Would we be in the same position, having parted ways with his replacement? Or would we be in a better situation?

I don’t know, of course. But I do not think we would be in a worse situation.

All of which is saying, I sure hope we can find another coach that is as successful as Cut was and if the cost is him moving on, I am okay with that.

[Acymetric]

A question I have been mulling over for a few days: would the Duke football program be in better shape today if Cutcliffe had moved on the Tennessee? He didn’t get the job, so the question is moot, but I know how happy I was when we managed to keep him.

Now, however, we have a rapidly deteriorating program — and the deterioration has picked up a lot of speed in the last 18 months. The outlook for the next two years is dire.

Where would we be today if Cutcliffe had moved on? Would we be in the same position, having parted ways with his replacement? Or would we be in a better situation?

I don’t know, of course. But I do not think we would be in a worse situation.

All of which is saying, I sure hope we can find another coach that is as successful as Cut was and if the cost is him moving on, I am okay with that.

Yes, with the benefit of hindsight that likely would have been the best long term move for all involved.

[cato]

Yes, with the benefit of hindsight that likely would have been the best long term move for all involved.

And, of course, the benefit of hindsight is the key thing here. As I said (and as I would remain) I was very happy when Cut remained at Duke. And I probably will be if we are in the position of fighting to hold onto a head coach in the future and we prevail.

My main take away from thinking about this is that I don’t think we should look at Duke’s potential as a stepping stone to greatness as a drawback. It is an attribute the University should actively work to exploit.

I can see the pitch now: come to Duke and if you succeed maybe an SEC program will roll an even bigger dump truck of cash into your driveway.

[HoKogan]

A question I have been mulling over for a few days: would the Duke football program be in better shape today if Cutcliffe had moved on the Tennessee? He didn’t get the job, so the question is moot, but I know how happy I was when we managed to keep him.

Now, however, we have a rapidly deteriorating program — and the deterioration has picked up a lot of speed in the last 18 months. The outlook for the next two years is dire.

Where would we be today if Cutcliffe had moved on? Would we be in the same position, having parted ways with his replacement? Or would we be in a better situation?

I don’t know, of course. But I do not think we would be in a worse situation.

All of which is saying, I sure hope we can find another coach that is as successful as Cut was and if the cost is him moving on, I am okay with that.

Cut was courted by Tennessee after just his second season with a 5-7 record, a big win over Russell Wilson lead NC State but another loss to Richmond. I remember the narrative at the time was 5-7 at Duke was like 8-4 at a normal Power 5 school. I don't see how Cut bailing on Duke after two seasons or 4-8 and 5-7 leaves Duke in a better place, especially with knowing how the middle of Cut's tenure would go. Instead, it could be a string of unqualified assistants looking to use Duke as a stepping stone at best, or a series of Ted Roofs at worst.

2020 and 2021 were bad seasons for Duke football, arguably Cutcliffe's worst since most of the losses were not remotely competitive, unlike 2010 and 2011. That said, lets not let recency bias color the whole of Cutcliffe's tenure at Duke. These are bad seasons that any number of college football programs have endured forever, they aren't program killers. Programs fire, hire, rebuild, decline and start the whole thing over again. A lot of time success is based on timing, luck and other outside factors beyond Duke's control. Lets hope Nina makes the right choice and the new coach does the same. There is no sense in a ton of handwringing over a future we cannot predict. Duke football has been fun and can be again. It is not some sword of Damocles hanging over fans heads. I swear sometimes of all the CFB fanbases in world, we are the Charlie Brown-iest.

[Acymetric]

Cut was courted by Tennessee after just his second season with a 5-7 record, a big win over Russell Wilson lead NC State but another loss to Richmond. I remember the narrative at the time was 5-7 at Duke was like 8-4 at a normal Power 5 school. I don't see how Cut bailing on Duke after two seasons or 4-8 and 5-7 leaves Duke in a better place, especially with knowing how the middle of Cut's tenure would go. Instead, it could be a string of unqualified assistants looking to use Duke as a stepping stone at best, or a series of Ted Roofs at worst.

2020 and 2021 were bad seasons for Duke football, arguably Cutcliffe's worst since most of the losses were not remotely competitive, unlike 2010 and 2011. That said, lets not let recency bias color the whole of Cutcliffe's tenure at Duke. These are bad seasons that any number of college football programs have endured forever, they aren't program killers. Programs fire, hire, rebuild, decline and start the whole thing over again. A lot of time success is based on timing, luck and other outside factors beyond Duke's control. Lets hope Nina makes the right choice and the new coach does the same. There is no sense in a ton of handwringing over a future we cannot predict. Duke football has been fun and can be again. It is not some sword of Damocles hanging over fans heads. I swear sometimes of all the CFB fanbases in world, we are the Charlie Brown-iest.

The Tennessee interest cato is talking about was in 2017.

https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...aching-vacancy

[dudog84]

There is lots of good ongoing discussion in this thread that I’m enjoying reading.

I just want this thread to be closed.

[HoKogan]

The Tennessee interest cato is talking about was in 2017.

https://www.espn.com/college-footbal...aching-vacancy

OK that makes more sense. Honestly I'm not sure that Duke would have been better here either. Cut leaves in higher esteem then he probably has a lot of say on who takes over and we're in a Barry Wilson situation part 2. Do you want to see Jeff Faris or Roper the Lesser as Duke HC? I sure as hell don't. Disaster.

And I don't blame Cutcliffe for staying at Duke. Look at the circus UT became after Fulmer left. Cut probably doesn't do better than Butch Jones did, still doesnt beat Alabama ever, and is fired by 2019. As for Duke, well we'd have pieces written on the DBR main page on how Duke should retain Faris or Roper despite being outcoached by everyone because he's such a good person...and since its not Men's basketball, nobody here really cares.

No, even with 2020 and 2021, I think best case Duke ends up in the same situation, or possibly worse. And we're deprived of the joy of Cutcliffe helping to run off the Hat. How often does that happen?

[Bob Green]

I just want this thread to be closed.

Unfortunately, I believe we are going to have to have some patience. Best case scenario is Nina King already has an agreement with the new coach but the announcement is being held until after conference championship games. More likely scenario is the coach search is ongoing. Worst case scenario is option 1, 2 and 3 have already said, “Thanks but no thanks.”

[dudog84]

Unfortunately, I believe we are going to have to have some patience. Best case scenario is Nina King already has an agreement with the new coach but the announcement is being held until after conference championship games. More likely scenario is the coach search is ongoing. Worst case scenario is option 1, 2 and 3 have already said, “Thanks but no thanks.”

I'm also hoping your best case is what's going on. I'm kinda hoping for an OC, Duke needs an exciting offense. A great defense can win but it can also be a slog, and Duke needs to put butts in the seats.

[nmduke2001]

Retain Cut as a special assistant, hire Peyton Manning as the Head Coach and Eil as the offensive coordinator, Archie can be head recruiter and I'm certain we would land Arch as our first 5-Star QB recruit.

[Skydog]

OK that makes more sense. Honestly I'm not sure that Duke would have been better here either. Cut leaves in higher esteem then he probably has a lot of say on who takes over and we're in a Barry Wilson situation part 2. Do you want to see Jeff Faris or Roper the Lesser as Duke HC? I sure as hell don't. Disaster.

And I don't blame Cutcliffe for staying at Duke. Look at the circus UT became after Fulmer left. Cut probably doesn't do better than Butch Jones did, still doesnt beat Alabama ever, and is fired by 2019. As for Duke, well we'd have pieces written on the DBR main page on how Duke should retain Faris or Roper despite being outcoached by everyone because he's such a good person...and since its not Men's basketball, nobody here really cares.

No, even with 2020 and 2021, I think best case Duke ends up in the same situation, or possibly worse. And we're deprived of the joy of Cutcliffe helping to run off the Hat. How often does that happen?

Also it isn't clear the decision was Cut's. We all know the public facing story - Cut stayed out of loyalty to Duke and his assistants - but the QB coach who was in the room when the calls happened told me the day after that Tenn wasn't going to offer and so Duke went with the "assistants as sticking point" narrative. Even if the QB coach's version is correct (and I have no reason to doubt it - I knew the guy well, he was very reliable and he was in the room for the morning call) I don't think that is a diss of Cut at all. Putting-the-best-face-on-it and controlling the narrative PR is a big part of all successful programs/coaches/leaders.

[duke79]

Unfortunately, I believe we are going to have to have some patience. Best case scenario is Nina King already has an agreement with the new coach but the announcement is being held until after conference championship games. More likely scenario is the coach search is ongoing. Worst case scenario is option 1, 2 and 3 have already said, “Thanks but no thanks.”

Let's hope scenario number 1 is the case and, if I'm allowed to speculate, I'm guessing we may know something early next week.

[Acymetric]

Let's hope scenario number 1 is the case and, if I'm allowed to speculate, I'm guessing we may know something early next week.

I'm skeptical because maybe Duke can keep their mouths shut but I don't believe any of the teams playing tomorrow could.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

2020 and 2021 were bad seasons for Duke football, arguably Cutcliffe's worst since most of the losses were not remotely competitive, unlike 2010 and 2011. That said, lets not let recency bias color the whole of Cutcliffe's tenure at Duke. These are bad seasons that any number of college football programs have endured forever, they aren't program killers. Programs fire, hire, rebuild, decline and start the whole thing over again. A lot of time success is based on timing, luck and other outside factors beyond Duke's control. Lets hope Nina makes the right choice and the new coach does the same. There is no sense in a ton of handwringing over a future we cannot predict. Duke football has been fun and can be again. It is not some sword of Damocles hanging over fans heads. I swear sometimes of all the CFB fanbases in world, we are the Charlie Brown-iest.

Indicating that we may be worse off, in some ways, than we were before Cut....or maybe at least pushing back on the kind of automaton notion that we're "much better off" - is not 'recency bias.' It's where we are today, candidly, or at least an argument can be made.

That said, it's not how I color the whole Cut tenure, not by a long shot. Cut took us up some nice high mountains....peaking in Atlanta 29 minutes in. That said, we've slid almost all the way down the other side.

[PDDuke85]

Unfortunately, I believe we are going to have to have some patience. Best case scenario is Nina King already has an agreement with the new coach but the announcement is being held until after conference championship games. More likely scenario is the coach search is ongoing. Worst case scenario is option 1, 2 and 3 have already said, “Thanks but no thanks.”

Duke hired David Cutcliffe on December 14,2007.
His press conference was the following day. It was determined he would coach in Tennessee’s bowl game before moving into the Duke job full time.

Paint me naive but I’m in the camp that says Duke will announce its new head coach hiring early to middle of next week.

[dudog84]

Most bowl games are meaningless. Several (many?) top players find excuses to opt out if it's not the playoffs. However, playing for your conference championship is a different monster. I don't believe any top players opt out of that. If Oklahoma had made their conference championship, I'm pretty sure that coaching change announcement would have been delayed. Notre Dame obviously not in a game tomorrow, hence that announcement. But this hire can't wait until after the playoffs. That's why I'm hoping it's one of the big-shot coordinators in action tomorrow and we'll hear soon afterwards.

[JetpackJesus]

Retain Cut as a special assistant, hire Peyton Manning as the Head Coach and Eil as the offensive coordinator, Archie can be head recruiter and I'm certain we would land Arch as our first 5-Star QB recruit.

Sign me up. Provided, of course, they still get to do the Manningcast, which should be the only MNF broadcast.