FB: Virginia 48, Duke 0

[Bluedog]

Only if I can be a fly-on-the-wall (fly-in-the-stall) during Saban's conversation with the Admission's department.

I am pretty sure Duke's admissions standards for five star recruits are no different than Bama's...There was a big change when Cutcliffe was brought on board. Probably not much difference for 4-star ones either. They used to release data in this regard as it relates to averages...Duke would basically accept any 5-star recruit that is NCAA eligible and nearly all 4-stars if they want to come on board.

[Dopeshop]

Honor System in effect
IN all yours years as a rabid supporter of Duke Sports,
Did you ever imagine you would so be full of envy to have
Our football program be as good as Wake’s ?I
I’ll hang up and listen…..

[Dr. Maturin]

Here is the data on coaching salaries from the USA Today: https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/sal...football/coach

I would bet Duke increases its budget for the head coaching position. Even if it doesn't, Duke can offer life-changing money to nearly any non-P5 head coach. Cut has made more than $25 million while winning about 45% of his games. I think that combination of P5 salary and realistic expectations would be attractive to the right coach. And of course, a coach that succeeds at Duke will have good offers from bigger jobs.

As salaries go, my bigger concern is the budget for assistant coaches. The next head coach has got to hire, and keep, good assistants.

[peteandpete]

In a more perfect world, some certainty would be nice for the dozens of student athletes and their families that will be affected by a coaching change. What we all assume has become an obvious situation of impending change is likely to be another challenging factor preventing best on field performance. In fact, there likely will be a complete turnover of the football staff. I suspect that current staff members see the handwriting on the wall and are updating resumes and making phone calls. I hope the AD gets some input from current players and players from earlier during Coach Cut's tenure, when things were different. Something about the process or culture changed. Oh, and pay those new assistants well.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Honor System in effect
IN all yours years as a rabid supporter of Duke Sports,
Did you ever imagine you would so be full of envy to have
Our football program be as good as Wake’s ?I
I’ll hang up and listen…..

Considering the last 20 years alone, you are aware that Wake has had a much better program than Duke's, right? It's not like they are all of a sudden a good team out of the blue.
I'm not envious of them, I'm happy they are doing well and it shows us that Duke has no reason not to do the same.

[dukelifer]

Considering the last 20 years alone, you are aware that Wake has had a much better program than Duke's, right? It's not like they are all of a sudden a good team out of the blue.
I'm not envious of them, I'm happy they are doing well and it shows us that Duke has no reason not to do the same.

Certainly Wake is trending better but both have the same number of winning records over the past 7 seasons (not including this one) and Wake has not had a 9 win season in that time. When Clawson took over he was 3-9 for his first two seasons. Duke is struggling of late for sure- but just looking at recent history

[luvdahops]

Considering the last 20 years alone, you are aware that Wake has had a much better program than Duke's, right? It's not like they are all of a sudden a good team out of the blue.
I'm not envious of them, I'm happy they are doing well and it shows us that Duke has no reason not to do the same.

Not only that, but their history over the last 20 years provides a very good analog for Duke - a slow rise followed by some solid peaks and then eventual decline over the span of 13 under Jim Grobe, who was let go and followed by the younger and more dynamic Dave Clawson. Clawson came from a mid-major and FCS background, but has the Wake program ascending once again, with 5 straight bowl appearances and a real shot at an ACC Championship this year. And all of this with arguably fewer resources, comparable academic standards and less name recognition than Duke. Cut is in his 14th year...

[CameronBornAndBred]

Certainly Wake is trending better but both have the same number of winning records over the past 7 seasons (not including this one) and Wake has not had a 9 win season in that time. When Clawson took over he was 3-9 for his first two seasons. Duke is struggling of late for sure- but just looking at recent history

I'm looking less recently than you, and more broadly. I specifically said 20 years, and you quoted 7.

Not only that, but their history over the last 20 years provides a very good analog for Duke - a slow rise followed by some solid peaks and then eventual decline over the span of 13 under Jim Grobe, who was let go and followed by the younger and more dynamic Dave Clawson. Clawson came from a mid-major and FCS background, but has the Wake program ascending once again, with 5 straight bowl appearances and a real shot at an ACC Championship this year. And all of this with arguably fewer resources, comparable academic standards and less name recognition than Duke. Cut is in his 14th year...

This is more in line in what I was referencing.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

David Shaw $8.9 M? I think that’s crazy, crazy money. No wonder the faculty and staff at the elite private universities have turned away.

8.9 Mill for that area of the country is what, upper middle class?

[Devilsforlife]

Not only that, but their history over the last 20 years provides a very good analog for Duke - a slow rise followed by some solid peaks and then eventual decline over the span of 13 under Jim Grobe, who was let go and followed by the younger and more dynamic Dave Clawson. Clawson came from a mid-major and FCS background, but has the Wake program ascending once again, with 5 straight bowl appearances and a real shot at an ACC Championship this year. And all of this with arguably fewer resources, comparable academic standards and less name recognition than Duke. Cut is in his 14th year...

Cutcliffe and Grobe had incredibly similar tenures, if you look at the year-by-year records. Both took a while to get established, then had fantastic peaks, before falling off in their last few years. It was past time for Wake to move on from Grobe in 2013, and the same is true for Duke with Cut now.

I'd been hoping to see an announcement of his impending retirement today. Maybe we'll get it after Wake slaughters us in two weeks.

[arnie]

If Cut is terminated; and still not convinced, I vote for Butch Davis (at Florida something). He makes slightly more than $1 Mil and that hiring would be entertaining for the Triangle.

[hustleplays]

I submitted a post after the most recent debacle and didn't receive a response. That's fine, but I would really like to know your views on two things:

1] When a team in in a tailspin like Duke football is in, doesn't it sometimes implode? Maybe we win next game but it seems more likely that we will lose to Wake handily. As a poster said earlier, coaches and support staff see some kind of handwriting on the wall spelling massive change. Coaches become distracted, along with being dispirited, frustrated, angry and/or embarrassed. Players sense that, and coupled with the agony of repeated losses, react in different ways. But most will find it harder to play with total focus and energy. Team cohesion becomes more difficult. In other words, I don't think that the program's current level of dysfunction is stable and sustainable. So, I think things could get uglier. Do y'all see it differently?

2] Most of us agree that we shouldn't try to make a permanent HC decision now, but earlier the better to announce an open position. My question is: Do you think that there might be anyone on the coaching staff who can come in to provide a spark for the rest of the season? Jim likely knows but can't say. Understood. Again, would love to hear your views. I'm really concerned about just letting this play out like some Greek [not as in fraternity] tragedy.

Thanks!

[Wander]

In other words, I don't think that the program's current level of dysfunction is stable and sustainable. So, I think things could get uglier. Do y'all see it differently?

Well, just from a practical standpoint, it's very difficult to get worse than a 48-0 loss to UVA. So I am guessing the next games will be better just based on that logic.

[jimsumner]

I submitted a post after the most recent debacle and didn't receive a response. That's fine, but I would really like to know your views on two things:

1] When a team in in a tailspin like Duke football is in, doesn't it sometimes implode? Maybe we win next game but it seems more likely that we will lose to Wake handily. As a poster said earlier, coaches and support staff see some kind of handwriting on the wall spelling massive change. Coaches become distracted, along with being dispirited, frustrated, angry and/or embarrassed. Players sense that, and coupled with the agony of repeated losses, react in different ways. But most will find it harder to play with total focus and energy. Team cohesion becomes more difficult. In other words, I don't think that the program's current level of dysfunction is stable and sustainable. So, I think things could get uglier. Do y'all see it differently?

2] Most of us agree that we shouldn't try to make a permanent HC decision now, but earlier the better to announce an open position. My question is: Do you think that there might be anyone on the coaching staff who can come in to provide a spark for the rest of the season? Jim likely knows but can't say. Understood. Again, would love to hear your views. I'm really concerned about just letting this play out like some Greek [not as in fraternity] tragedy.

Thanks!

Nope. Jim doesn't know anything. But should Cut be unable to finish the season, my best guess is that Ben Albert would get the call. Albert might be the only coach on the staff that a completely new guy would want to retain.

I also suspect that if Duke were going to make a move before the end of the season, it would have been made. Practice resumes tomorrow in advance of an open date. Optimal time has passed.

I expect Cut to finish the season and move into a cushy retirement shortly after. But it's not like Nina and I have lunch on a regular basis; or at all, actually.

But the chance of Cut coaching Duke next season is in the Jim Carrey Dumb and Dumber range, IMO. This is just not sustainable.

Again, my two cents. YMMV

[dukelifer]

Not only that, but their history over the last 20 years provides a very good analog for Duke - a slow rise followed by some solid peaks and then eventual decline over the span of 13 under Jim Grobe, who was let go and followed by the younger and more dynamic Dave Clawson. Clawson came from a mid-major and FCS background, but has the Wake program ascending once again, with 5 straight bowl appearances and a real shot at an ACC Championship this year. And all of this with arguably fewer resources, comparable academic standards and less name recognition than Duke. Cut is in his 14th year...

Clawson’s career at Wake is not that different than Cut’s at Duke over the first 8 years. Clawson is much younger and that will make him very attractive to big schools. I expect he will be on the top of a number of lists at the end of the season.

[Bluedog]

Clawson’s career at Wake is not that different than Cut’s at Duke over the first 8 years. Clawson is much younger and that will make him very attractive to big schools. I expect he will be on the top of a number of lists at the end of the season.

Yeah he's 46-45 overall and 23-36 in the ACC. Yes Wake is having a very good year this year, but it's not like they've been at the top of the standings for a long time. Since going 1-7 in the ACC his first two seasons, they've gone 3-5 or 4-4 the next five years. I suppose that's what we're looking for though, but it's pretty big recency bias (this year) to think Wake has been consistently a top ACC program. They've been a middling program at best, which I guess is what we're shooting for. This also demonstrates that it's really darn hard to be consistently good on college football. Unless you're Alabama, Ohio St, Clemson... For most programs/coaches there are ups and downs. Of course, Duke has been only down as of late unfortunately...

[hustleplays]

Nope. Jim doesn't know anything. But should Cut be unable to finish the season, my best guess is that Ben Albert would get the call. Albert might be the only coach on the staff that a completely new guy would want to retain.

I also suspect that if Duke were going to make a move before the end of the season, it would have been made. Practice resumes tomorrow in advance of an open date. Optimal time has passed.

I expect Cut to finish the season and move into a cushy retirement shortly after. But it's not like Nina and I have lunch on a regular basis; or at all, actually.

But the chance of Cut coaching Duke next season is in the Jim Carrey Dumb and Dumber range, IMO. This is just not sustainable.

Again, my two cents. YMMV

Wander and Jim, Thanks for your responses.

Wander, yes, just from a purely quant point of view, there is a much greater range of possibilities better than 48-0 than worse than 48-0. I hope we do better against Wake and our remaining opponents. I am also focused on whether a truly toxic culture can be avoided. Hope so.

Jim, Thank you for giving us your honest take. Your bright line between a mid-season move vs. post-season move is helpful, given your knowledge of the program and football overall. And your coupling Ben Albert's retainability with the possibility of his stepping in for the season, if necessary, makes sense.

[jv001]

Nope. Jim doesn't know anything. But should Cut be unable to finish the season, my best guess is that Ben Albert would get the call. Albert might be the only coach on the staff that a completely new guy would want to retain.

I also suspect that if Duke were going to make a move before the end of the season, it would have been made. Practice resumes tomorrow in advance of an open date. Optimal time has passed.

I expect Cut to finish the season and move into a cushy retirement shortly after. But it's not like Nina and I have lunch on a regular basis; or at all, actually.

But the chance of Cut coaching Duke next season is in the Jim Carrey Dumb and Dumber range, IMO. This is just not sustainable.

Again, my two cents. YMMV

I'm not even in the ballpark when it comes to knowledge of Duke sports as Mr. Sumner but everything I've read about Coach Albert has been positive. I hope when(not if) the new coach takes over, Coach Albert is retained.

GoDuke!

[luvdahops]

Clawson’s career at Wake is not that different than Cut’s at Duke over the first 8 years. Clawson is much younger and that will make him very attractive to big schools. I expect he will be on the top of a number of lists at the end of the season.

I see Cut's career as more of a parallel with that of Grobe. Hopefully we can find our Clawson in the coming search. I agree that Clawson will be a target of higher profile openings that come open, but we (and Wake) can't be afraid of that. It's a high class problem in many respects, especially if comes on the back of 8 years of relative success.

[Acymetric]

Clawson’s career at Wake is not that different than Cut’s at Duke over the first 8 years. Clawson is much younger and that will make him very attractive to big schools. I expect he will be on the top of a number of lists at the end of the season.

In the 7 and a half seasons since Clawson took over (2014), Duke has 11 30+ point losses while Wake has 5.

4 of Wake's 5 have come against top 5 teams (#1 FSU, #5 Louisville, #3 Clemson, #4 Clemson, unranked UNC). They have avoided such losses at all in 2017, 2020, and (so far) 2021, and have never had two such losses in the same season.

1 of duke's 11 came against a top 5 team (#2 Alabama, plus #21 UNC, #15 Notre Dame, #9 Miami from the top 25) with the remainder coming against unranked teams (including Wake Forest). 2014 and 2017 are the only years we have avoided such a loss, and we have had at least two such losses for 3 seasons in a row (counting this season). Presumably the reason more of our blowout losses don't come at the hands of highly rated teams is simply that we don't play them as often as Wake does (I am now more sure than ever that Wake has a much tougher road in the Atlantic than we have in the Coastal, as well).