MBB: Duke 63, Cheaters 57 Post-Game Thread

[azzefkram]

Yeah, that's a very fair point about the rebounds. He definitely struggled on the glass early on, but has been better of late (and MUCH better over the last 3 games): 5.7 rebounds per game largely from the SF spot the last 9 games; 7.3 rpg over the past 3. But prior to that he was really poor on the glass: just 3.5 rebounds per game over the first 14 games.

Mark's improvement on the boards is a really good sign. He slides up to 4 when Flip goes out. That can be problematic when Dereck is at the five (though Dereck's defensive rebounding has started to trend better). Better rebounding from the Dereck-Mark 5-4 is a good thing for Duke.

[flyingdutchdevil]

I don't think this is necessarily the case - instead, I think he's realizing he can't stubbornly trot out the same rotations from game to game and expect success. Every team is different. Young will be very good against teams that can't exploit his defense, but UNC isn't one of those teams.

Blakes I think is hampered by his injury, but ultimately, he's the odd man out in the guard rotation with Proctor playing so well and Roach being healthy. Blakes will likely get more minutes as he heals up, but the rotation is likely game dependent more than Scheyer sticking with just 6-7 guys.

I don't think that's the case. Blakes is the odd man out, and the facemask may be bothering him, but I'm not sure he's coming back to the rotation depending on the opponent/health. He'd have to leapfrog Grandison, which I don't see happening. I'd be very surprised if Blakes averages 8+ minutes for the remainder of the season.

As for Young, his playing time is (40 minutes - Lively). With Flip being the number 1 option on offense and Lively being the 1 option on defense, Young will likely play pending Lively's foul situation. Hence, the 0.5. I don't think there is an offense out there where Lively is ill-equipped on D. And Lively's promotion to the starting line and incredible defensive performance leads me to believe he's playing as many minutes as he can absorb, regardless of the opponent.

[UrinalCake]

Because I can't stop consuming every bit of content about this game, I ventured over to some UNC sites and watched a postgame recap video from Tar Heel Illustrated. I have to give them credit, they were very fair and didn't mention the refs once while pointing to all of their own team's deficiencies. As an awesome anecdote, they said that on one of the possessions very late in the game UNC called a timeout, and when they players returned to the floor Lively got into position behind Bacot and yelled at him "you're not touching the F-ing ball." And sure enough he didn't get the ball at all that entire possession.

They mentioned that all night it felt like the Duke players knew what the UNC players were going to run, they knew their plays and got into their heads. Roach alluded to this in his postgame interview when he said he knew that Nance and Davis would mess up the Flip slip screen since they hadn't been talking on defense. I can't give Jon enough credit for how well prepared the team was for this game. Oh, also apparently Love's girlfriend cheated on him with RJ Davis, some crazies chanted her name and held up signs and even their UNC teammates were laughing about it.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Because I can't stop consuming every bit of content about this game, I ventured over to some UNC sites and watched a postgame recap video from Tar Heel Illustrated. I have to give them credit, they were very fair and didn't mention the refs once while pointing to all of their own team's deficiencies. As an awesome anecdote, they said that on one of the possessions very late in the game UNC called a timeout, and when they players returned to the floor Lively got into position behind Bacot and yelled at him "you're not touching the F-ing ball." And sure enough he didn't get the ball at all that entire possession.

They mentioned that all night it felt like the Duke players knew what the UNC players were going to run, they knew their plays and got into their heads. Roach alluded to this in his postgame interview when he said he knew that Nance and Davis would mess up the Flip slip screen since they hadn't been talking on defense. I can't give Jon enough credit for how well prepared the team was for this game. Oh, also apparently Love's girlfriend cheated on him with RJ Davis, some crazies chanted her name and held up signs and even their UNC teammates were laughing about it.

There is so much to unpack in this post.

1) Lively's defensive intensity is awesome. And he is clearly getting more confident.

2) Jon did an awesome job preparing his team for this game. Which is even more impressive given Duke won the prior 2 ACC games prior to the UNC game.

3) I miss the days when our fans attacked the personal lives (within reason, of course). Cheating on one's girlfriend is definitely within reason. Love the Crazies!

[sagegrouse]

1)

5) Scheyer is adopting Coach K's rotation mantra: basically 6 rotation players. Blakes just isn't ready for prime time ACC play. Young cannot guard ACC 5s. Grandison is a really nice piece off the bench who offers decent decent, excellent 3pt shooting, and solid passing into the interior. When Dariq comes back, I assume the rotation goes to 7.5 players (assuming Lively is able to consistently play 30+ minutes a game from here ).

On the "rotation"-- we'll learn more against Miami tonight. I expect Ryan Young to play much more; Bacot was a bad match-up for Young, just as Dereck was a bad match-up for Armando.

We need to control Miami's guards, esp. Isaiah Wong and Nijel Pack. We may see a lot more of Blakes.

But you have made an interesting point.

[flyingdutchdevil]

On the "rotation"-- we'll learn more against Miami tonight. I expect Ryan Young to play much more; Bacot was a bad match-up for Young, just as Dereck was a bad match-up for Armando.

We need to control Miami's guards, esp. Isaiah Wong and Nijel Pack. We may see a lot more of Blakes.

But you have made an interesting point.

I think it's entirely dependent on Lively and his ability to stay on the court AND impact the game defensively. Lively and Young, combined, are probably playing 40 min. Maybe high 30s, if Young and Lively are in foul trouble and Flip can take a few minutes at the 5. But Young and Lively aren't sharing the floor together.

And after the UNC game, do we really want Lively to play less? His defensive impact set the tone for the team, especially on a night when shots weren't falling.

I want to be clear that a tight rotation isn't a bad thing; Coach K won plenty with that mantra. It does mean we are likely to see role players - especially sophomore+ role players - not stick around.

[kshepinthehouse]

I think it's entirely dependent on Lively and his ability to stay on the court AND impact the game defensively. Lively and Young, combined, are probably playing 40 min. Maybe high 30s, if Young and Lively are in foul trouble and Flip can take a few minutes at the 5. But Young and Lively aren't sharing the floor together.

And after the UNC game, do we really want Lively to play less? His defensive impact set the tone for the team, especially on a night when shots weren't falling.

I want to be clear that a tight rotation isn't a bad thing; Coach K won plenty with that mantra. It does mean we are likely to see role players - especially sophomore+ role players - not stick around.

Read somewhere that Amile and Young had been working with Lively a lot. That's the ultimate move to help train the player that will be taking your minutes.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Read somewhere that Amile and Young had been working with Lively a lot. That's the ultimate move to help train the player that will be taking your minutes.

Yeah. The Athletic article.

That is the ultimate teammate move. Mad props to Young.

But it also helps Young too. He gets to a) go to the tournament for the first time and b) help his team advance as far as possible.

[CDu]

On the "rotation"-- we'll learn more against Miami tonight. I expect Ryan Young to play much more; Bacot was a bad match-up for Young, just as Dereck was a bad match-up for Armando.

We need to control Miami's guards, esp. Isaiah Wong and Nijel Pack. We may see a lot more of Blakes.

But you have made an interesting point.

I think ideally we see only a similar amount of Young in this one. I don't think Young's struggles against UNC were due to Bacot. They were due to UNC's ability to punish Young in the pick and roll game. Miami will offer a similar threat with Wong and Pack running screens with Omier.

[House P]

we strategically made Black the open man, with Mitchell playing essentially zone defense to protect against the pick and roll game. We were quite willing to live with Black taking 3s if it meant that Love and Davis weren't getting layups and/or feeding handoffs to Bacot.

Interesting. I wasn't paying close attention to Mitchell's role in defending the high ball screen, but it seemed clear that Duke was doing something to effectively limit Carolina in these plays. I'd have to re-watch the game to confirm, but my impression in real time was that Lively's length and athleticism was enough to discourage the guard from driving while also "freezing" the ballhandler long enough to allow the Duke guard to fight through the screen.

Help from Mitchell would provide another disincentive for the ballhandler to drive.

I could be remembering incorrectly, but I seem to recall several instances where the ballhandler came off the screen prepared to drive, only to back off and give Duke's defense time to reset.

[CDu]

Interesting. I wasn't paying close attention to Mitchell's role in defending the high ball screen, but it seemed clear that Duke was doing something to effectively limit Carolina in these plays. I'd have to re-watch the game to confirm, but my impression in real time was that Lively's length and athleticism was enough to discourage the guard from driving while also "freezing" the ballhandler long enough to allow the Duke guard to fight through the screen.

Help from Mitchell would provide another disincentive for the ballhandler to drive.

I could be remembering incorrectly, but I seem to recall several instances where the ballhandler came off the screen prepared to drive, only to back off and give Duke's defense time to reset.

Oh don't get me wrong; the primary reason for the unsuccessful driving was Lively's presence. But whenever Mitchell wasn't guarding one of the guards (there were times when he was matched up on Love), he was hedging into the paint to help on drives and on the glass. That resulted in some kickout opportunities for Black, of which he made a high percentage.

[jv001]

I don't want to let this particular point slide: Jay puts up a picture of himself for EVERY game he is calling, not just Duke/Carolina. It would be inappropriate to have any announcer predict a game when they are calling it. If he's not calling the Duke/Carolina game, he'd make a pick. He has picked Duke in the past.

And as far as fawning over our rivals, I remember when the ESPN president was a Tar Heel, which may have tempered his on-air views. He says it didn't make a difference, but smart people don't hate on their boss' team.

I specifically listened to Jay during the game and I thought Jay was relatively balanced in calling the game. And UNC does have good players -- this rivalry wouldn't be any fun if either team was always mediocre. If says something good about UNC, I see it as giving their fans hope. I mean, how much more salt is rubbed in their wounds in a rivalry loss because a Blue Devil thought they were good?

DISCLAIMER: This is in no way saying anyone should feel like I do. This opinion is my own and may or may not be shared by any other moderators or DBR members and is definitely not an expressed view of the moderation team.

I did not know this because I don't watch Gameday if it's not a Duke game. I guess I feel if Kenny Smith can talk up his cheating teammates, Jay should do the same. As for his calling this particular game, I really didn't pay much attention to the announcers. I was more interested in the play on the court and the TV shots of the Crazies and former Duke players. I have always suspected the ESPN president may have been one reason Jay didn't call out the Cheats.

GoDuke!

[SavDukeGrad]

Mitchell was on Wong in the last game. He got tons of credit from everyone for the job he did on Wong, including Scheyer. Then Larranaga said Wong was sick, so who knows how much was Mitchell’s defense and how much was Wong’s illness.

But one thing is for sure - Mark can’t help off Wong like he did Leaky, because Wong will light it up. And I’m sure 4th year player Wong has lots of incentive to go off in this game, given how he played against us last time.

Sorry, wrong thread.

[BLPOG]

I did not know this because I don't watch Gameday if it's not a Duke game. I guess I feel if Kenny Smith can talk up his cheating teammates, Jay should do the same. As for his calling this particular game, I really didn't pay much attention to the announcers. I was more interested in the play on the court and the TV shots of the Crazies and former Duke players. I have always suspected the ESPN president may have been one reason Jay didn't call out the Cheats.

GoDuke!

At the risk of derailing the thread, Jay went beyond not calling them out, beyond weaseling and parsing and what have you - he outright publicly lied multiple times about the scandal, explicitly stating that the basketball team had not been implicated and that there was no mention of them in the reports. All one had to do to disprove that was to read the early pages and charges, in which the basketball team was explicitly mentioned. I recall a former roommate pointing it out to him on Twitter, with the full citation, and Bilas' response was something rude and disparaging, as it was to dozens of others who provided the unambiguous evidence that Bilas was making false statements.

[jv001]

At the risk of derailing the thread, Jay went beyond not calling them out, beyond weaseling and parsing and what have you - he outright publicly lied multiple times about the scandal, explicitly stating that the basketball team had not been implicated and that there was no mention of them in the reports. All one had to do to disprove that was to read the early pages and charges, in which the basketball team was explicitly mentioned. I recall a former roommate pointing it out to him on Twitter, with the full citation, and Bilas' response was something rude and disparaging, as it was to dozens of others who provided the unambiguous evidence that Bilas was making false statements.

There have been several people comment on Jay's response to something he doesn't agree with. I've had one face to face meeting with Jay and that was at one of the Bob Harris' Charity Golf Tournaments. I got there early that day, and I met Jay and Johnny Dawkins on the practice range. Johnny was one of the nicest people I've ever met. Jay never spoke to me one time even though we were facing each other the entire time and it wasn't because he was hitting golf balls either. I was blessed to meet many Duke players and coaches over the years at that tournament and Jay was the only person that had that kind of attitude.

GoDuke!

[scottdude8]

Because I can't stop consuming every bit of content about this game, I ventured over to some UNC sites and watched a postgame recap video from Tar Heel Illustrated. I have to give them credit, they were very fair and didn't mention the refs once while pointing to all of their own team's deficiencies. As an awesome anecdote, they said that on one of the possessions very late in the game UNC called a timeout, and when they players returned to the floor Lively got into position behind Bacot and yelled at him "you're not touching the F-ing ball." And sure enough he didn't get the ball at all that entire possession.

They mentioned that all night it felt like the Duke players knew what the UNC players were going to run, they knew their plays and got into their heads. Roach alluded to this in his postgame interview when he said he knew that Nance and Davis would mess up the Flip slip screen since they hadn't been talking on defense. I can't give Jon enough credit for how well prepared the team was for this game. Oh, also apparently Love's girlfriend cheated on him with RJ Davis, some crazies chanted her name and held up signs and even their UNC teammates were laughing about it.

This is some A+ Crazie work. Perhaps my favorite since (in my highly biased opinion) we chanted "She said no!" to Wayne Ellington after he supposedly proposed numerous times to his then-girlfriend without success.

[sagegrouse]

I did not know this because I don't watch Gameday if it's not a Duke game. I guess I feel if Kenny Smith can talk up his cheating teammates, Jay should do the same. As for his calling this particular game, I really didn't pay much attention to the announcers. I was more interested in the play on the court and the TV shots of the Crazies and former Duke players. I have always suspected the ESPN president may have been one reason Jay didn't call out the Cheats.

GoDuke!

Au contraire, IMHO ( where the H disappeared in a Helly Hansen benefit for the 4-H club) --

I believe any star reporter in a newsroom or network lead in a sports studio would go out of their way to yank the big boss's chain on a non-business matter like college rooting interest.

[jv001]

Oh don't get me wrong; the primary reason for the unsuccessful driving was Lively's presence. But whenever Mitchell wasn't guarding one of the guards (there were times when he was matched up on Love), he was hedging into the paint to help on drives and on the glass. That resulted in some kickout opportunities for Black, of which he made a high percentage.

Props to Coach Carrawell's game plan!

GoDuke!

[flyingdutchdevil]

This is some A+ Crazie work. Perhaps my favorite since (in my highly biased opinion) we chanted "She said no!" to Wayne Ellington after he supposedly proposed numerous times to his then-girlfriend without success.

Cheated on her 14 times. 14!!!!

https://twitter.com/Agent00stallion/...432129/photo/1

[DevilYouKnow]

Refs called 11 fouls on us, 14 on them. Given we were driving more and they were chucking from outside more, how is this evidence of anything nut soreloseritis?