The Elephant in the Room: Lets talk about Jon Scheyer

[heyman25]

One thing about Scheyer. He at least did not linger on Whitehead's injury with no information. I think it will work out in a few years. Scheyer wants 2 and 3 and 4 year players. In the podcast with David Shumate he believes he thinks we will get returnees out of this year's team.

I do not know how this will go now. The players have to right the ship. It starts with Roach and Porter on ball pressure. Better decision making on offense. It is a inconsistent offense prone to scoring droughts. Filipowski keeps getting better,but he needs support. Every game its seems the ebb and flow of scorers changes each game. With Whitehead out Grandison and Mitchell need to score points. Perhaps Lively and Proctor will have more success each game.

I like the 9 person rotation. However the right 5 that play together is never a certainty.There are times people that are sitting should be on the court. In 4 years or less Scheyer will get the Duke program back to the level us spoiled fans are used to.

[Southgate0809]

One thing about Scheyer. He at least did not linger on Whitehead's injury with no information. I think it will work out in a few years. Scheyer wants 2 and 3 and 4 year players. In the podcast with David Shumate he believes he thinks we will get returnees out of this year's team.

I do not know how this will go now. The players have to right the ship. It starts with Roach and Porter on ball pressure. Better decision making on offense. It is a inconsistent offense prone to scoring droughts. Filipowski keeps getting better,but he needs support. Every game its seems the ebb and flow of scorers changes each game. With Whitehead out Grandison and Mitchell need to score points. Perhaps Lively and Proctor will have more success each game.

I like the 9 person rotation. However the right 5 that play together is never a certainty.There are times people that are sitting should be on the court. In 4 years or less Scheyer will get the Duke program back to the level us spoiled fans are used to.

Do you have a link to that podcast?

[dm9e24]

I seem to recall that some guy that used to be involved in Duke Basketball often talked about everyone running their own race, or something like that. IMO we need a little more gentleness around this board

Davis inherited a line up with tons more experience than what Jon has had to work with this year. and I would say that Manek had a bigger impact on their roster last year than Ryan has had on ours this year, although Ryan has turned out to be a godsend. One year later, with basically the same roster and the addition of another experienced P5 big man in Nance and Hubert has lost almost as many games as Jon this year. Although it does look like carolina has the potential to get on a roll like last year when they are 100% healthy. Of course, last year, going into the week of the Duke game in Cameron, Davis's team was considered on the bubble. Then the epic run. Maybe Jon's team can miraculously start playing like 4 or 5 guys who are leaving early for the nba and go on their on run this year. Then Jon, like Hubert did, will look like a genius.

[heyman25]

Do you have a link to that podcast?

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January 25

[AGDukesky]

Jim Sumner put out a great article about this very subject yesterday. He may or may not have seen this thread first😜. Clearly Scheyer is in a difficult position with this team’s circumstances and deserves some patience.

[JetpackJesus]

I have to give a hearty 'Amen' here. I would have been fine with Jon picking up a tech at the end arguing for Flip. Would have likely sealed our fate in that game, but it would have been the right thing to do.

Don't get me wrong, a punch to throat and a block/charge call are not on the same level, but given what I thought about Boeheim throwing his jacket after Hood's great defense, I feel like I can't agree with this.

I think it's good coaching to understand in the moment that losing your [Insert wankerizer word here] over it (a) won't change the blown call and (b) will guarantee a loss.

Duke had a chance to extend that game, and Coach drew up a play that got a good look. I'll take that in year one.

[diveonthefloor]

Jon. Will. Be. Just. Fine.

[fgb]

took a friend to the pitt game a couple of weeks ago, and towards the end of the game, we had an exchange that went something like this:

"I'm just happy for Scheyer. Especially after all the bad press he's been getting."

"What are you talking about? He hasn't been getting bad press."

"Yes, he has."

"No, he hasn't."

"Yes, he has. You just aren't on some of the chat groups that I'm on, or you would have seen it."

"Um...that's not 'press'".

I don't think there's any elephant in the room. Just saying there is an elephant in the room, doesn't make it so. To imply that Coach may be under any sort of microscope, simply because his first season as a head coach, at any level, isn't one for the ages, is in my opinion completely unhinged. I'll even take it further; I (wanker) love this season. Because of the struggles. Because, I remember 40+ years ago, another young coach struggling, and slogging through calls for his head (I was one of the ones calling for it, but to be fair, I was only 12 yrs old, so therefore I was stupid about most things). What K was doing at the time was setting a culture, his culture, the one he wanted to build here. It takes time. I'm going to give Coach Scheyer the benefit of the doubt, for a good while. We all should. I don't expect him to simply carry on K's culture. I don't want him to. I want him to establish his own culture; I want him to be great. And the great ones set their own pace. It usually takes a while. In the end, it's worth the wait.

We're going to lose some games, some that we would have won with K at the helm. But K is not at the helm. Coach Scheyer is. An elephant is not in the room. Coach Scheyer is. If he is going to establish his own program, there are likely dues, growing pains, lumps, whatever, that are going to have to be paid. As a fan, I'm ready to pay them, in the belief that he'll come in to his own greatness, in his own time. And that I'll have the privilege to watch it happen, again.

And that said, this team right now is alright.

[clinresga]

I'll even take it further; I (wanker) love this season. Because of the struggles. Because, I remember 40+ years ago, another young coach struggling, and slogging through calls for his head (I was one of the ones calling for it, but to be fair, I was only 12 yrs old, so therefore I was stupid about most things). What K was doing at the time was setting a culture, his culture, the one he wanted to build here. It takes time. I'm going to give Coach Scheyer the benefit of the doubt, for a good while. We all should. I don't expect him to simply carry on K's culture. I don't want him to. I want him to establish his own culture; I want him to be great. And the great ones set their own pace. It usually takes a while. In the end, it's worth the wait.

Having been in Cameron for K's first four seasons, I can vouch that fgb's take is on the money. The key to K's success was Tom Butters' willingness to suffer the slings from the (many) fans who were calling for K's head. We need to give Scheyer the same opportunity.

My point would additionally be that it can be a great time to be a fan. Of course I loved the national championships, and the many years of dominance. But Coach K's seasons two and three were the most fun I've had rooting for Duke. We went to games for sheer enjoyment. Losses were disappointing but not devastating. And the wins were especially sweet. Most of all, there was a sense that fans were part of the team, that you could play a role by cheering even through the worst of losses (see App State in Cameron L 70-75). A bit of that Saving Private Ryan against overwhelming odds foxhole mentality. I've loved watching Grant, Bobby, Christian, JJ, Zion, et al, but Danny Meagher is still my favorite player. Not that good, but boy he played hard.

So hunker down in the foxhold with Coach Scheyer. Pick a favorite player to root for (I'm a Lively guy, but also love Young, following in that Tissaw-Nessley-Parks-Zoubek tradition). Enjoy the ride--you can love your team even when they don't win a national championship.

[53n206]

Having been in Cameron for K's first four seasons, I can vouch that fgb's take is on the money. The key to K's success was Tom Butters' willingness to suffer the slings from the (many) fans who were calling for K's head. We need to give Scheyer the same opportunity.

My point would additionally be that it can be a great time to be a fan. Of course I loved the national championships, and the many years of dominance. But Coach K's seasons two and three were the most fun I've had rooting for Duke. We went to games for sheer enjoyment. Losses were disappointing but not devastating. And the wins were especially sweet. Most of all, there was a sense that fans were part of the team, that you could play a role by cheering even through the worst of losses (see App State in Cameron L 70-75). A bit of that Saving Private Ryan against overwhelming odds foxhole mentality. I've loved watching Grant, Bobby, Christian, JJ, Zion, et al, but Danny Meagher is still my favorite player. Not that good, but boy he played hard.

So hunker down in the foxhold with Coach Scheyer. Pick a favorite player to root for (I'm a Lively guy, but also love Young, following in that Tissaw-Nessley-Parks-Zoubek tradition). Enjoy the ride--you can love your team even when they don't win a national championship.

In the early years of coach K’s tenure I was in Charlettsville visiting my daughter, and was watching a Duke - Carolina game on TV. That was the time that Carolina was playing the full corner offense. I was with a group of Virginia guys and I complained about Coach K. They all reacted to my complaint, and said that he was a great coach, and would really do a super job as time goes. Obviously, they knew more about basketball than I did. Regardless, I still do not like the fourth quarter offense.

[Daddylawman]

but Danny Meagher is still my favorite player. Not that good, but boy he played hard.

So I can assume you aren't Tom Sheehey

[camion]

In the early years of coach K’s tenure I was in Charlettsville visiting my daughter, and was watching a Duke - Carolina game on TV. That was the time that Carolina was playing the full corner offense. I was with a group of Virginia guys and I complained about Coach K. They all reacted to my complaint, and said that he was a great coach, and would really do a super job as time goes. Obviously, they knew more about basketball than I did. Regardless, I still do not like the fourth quarter offense.

I've been wondering, could Dean Smith claim parentage of the shot clock in college basketball?

You know, necessity --> invention.

[clinresga]

So I can assume you aren't Tom Sheehey

Wow, that is a righteously obscure reference. I was at the game and still had to Google Sheehy to recall it. Awesome work

[clinresga]

I've been wondering, could Dean Smith claim parentage of the shot clock in college basketball?

You know, necessity --> invention.

Well, as long as I'm on a "I'm so old I can remember..." jag, I will add that my favorite half of any Duke basketball game was the infamous 7-0 first half in Cameron against UNC in '79. As that half wound on and Dean continued to hold the ball in the four corners offense, the crowd got louder and louder. Rich Yonaker airballed a shot with the score at 3-0. Duke closed out the half leading 7-0 with all in Cameron going crazy. The second half, Carolina actually played Duke to a 40-40 tie, leaving the delightful result that we won based on the 7 points we scored in the first half. Good times. And yes, that had to be the impetus for the shot clock.

[Kedsy]

Well, as long as I'm on a "I'm so old I can remember..." jag, I will add that my favorite half of any Duke basketball game was the infamous 7-0 first half in Cameron against UNC in '79. As that half wound on and Dean continued to hold the ball in the four corners offense, the crowd got louder and louder. Rich Yonaker airballed a shot with the score at 3-0. Duke closed out the half leading 7-0 with all in Cameron going crazy. The second half, Carolina actually played Duke to a 40-40 tie, leaving the delightful result that we won based on the 7 points we scored in the first half. Good times. And yes, that had to be the impetus for the shot clock.

The rumor at the time was the impetus for the shot clock was actually the 1982 ACC championship game, won by UNC over Virginia, 47-45, on national tv. Carolina played a lot of four corners in the game, including something like the last 9 minutes of the game. This is back in the day when not so many games made national tv, and the NCAA was livid at the boring product it had put on television. A year or so later, the NCAA began experimenting with a clock in various conferences, and it became a national rule in 1985.

Oh, and about the 7-0 game: I was in the first row of the stands, about a foot away from Chick Yonakor, screaming in his ear the entire half. In addition to his air ball he had, I believe, two turnovers, and I've always felt I deserved at least a tiny bit of partial credit for his mishaps.

[sagegrouse]

The rumor at the time was the impetus for the shot clock was actually the 1982 ACC championship game, won by UNC over Virginia, 47-45, on national tv. Carolina played a lot of four corners in the game, including something like the last 9 minutes of the game. This is back in the day when not so many games made national tv, and the NCAA was livid at the boring product it had put on television. A year or so later, the NCAA began experimenting with a clock in various conferences, and it became a national rule in 1985.

Four corners, my Aunt Betty!! I was there -- UNC just held the ball as long as the Cavs played zone. Least action I have ever seen at a hoops game.

[JayZee]

The rumor at the time was the impetus for the shot clock was actually the 1982 ACC championship game, won by UNC over Virginia, 47-45, on national tv. Carolina played a lot of four corners in the game, including something like the last 9 minutes of the game. This is back in the day when not so many games made national tv, and the NCAA was livid at the boring product it had put on television. A year or so later, the NCAA began experimenting with a clock in various conferences, and it became a national rule in 1985.

Oh, and about the 7-0 game: I was in the first row of the stands, about a foot away from Chick Yonakor, screaming in his ear the entire half. In addition to his air ball he had, I believe, two turnovers, and I've always felt I deserved at least a tiny bit of partial credit for his mishaps.

Somewhat ironically, that's a score you might see in CBB today - with a shot clock - if UVa is one of the teams playing.

[Southgate0809]

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January 25

Thanks. Who knows if it will pan out this way, but he pretty much says they want multi year guys, good transfers, and the top one and done talent. That seems like the smartest approach to me. It's a better answer than the previous regime's response that "you just want the best players, end of story."

[tommy]

Thanks. Who knows if it will pan out this way, but he pretty much says they want multi year guys, good transfers, and the top one and done talent. That seems like the smartest approach to me. It's a better answer than the previous regime's response that "you just want the best players, end of story."

Top one-and-dones plus multi year guys plus transfers. What else is there? Seems like kind of a non-answer answer to me.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

Top one-and-dones plus multi year guys plus transfers. What else is there? Seems like kind of a non-answer answer to me.

I want the bottom-feeders. The guys who were at the end of their bench and only play garbage time. I want kids who are afraid to shoot and can't take a charge for fear of injury.