2023 NBA Draft

[DoubleBlue]

G-League Ignite beat Metropolitans 92 by a score of 122-115. I haven't come across a box score yet...

Here's the box score:
https://www.espn.com/nba-g-league/bo...meId/401492650

[plimnko]

Here's the box score:
https://www.espn.com/nba-g-league/bo...meId/401492650

they play again Thursday, the 6th, at 3:00 on ESPN2

[Billy Dat]

Color me impressed by both Henderson and Wemby. First off, I laughed when Corey Alexander was the analyst because I know many DBR denizens were cursing the television as soon as they heard his voice. The comparisons of Henderson to Derrick Rose seemed a little bit of a stretch because Henderson seems like a better outside shooter and I don't think he's quite as explosive as the combustible D.Rose but, man, that dude is GOOOD.

As for Wemby, he's a complete freak. He obviously has to get stronger but he is a better version of Chet Holmgren in that he's that much smoother in all aspects of the game, and Chet is pretty smooth.

Interesting that the G-League Ignite now has a permanent home in Henderson, NV. As an aside, and this is a real tangent, the fact that so much of our sporting culture now revolves around gambling, and the fact that Vegas is adding sports franchises at a rate that makes it seem like every team in the United States will eventually be headquartered there...and the NBA is especially enamoured of if...it just feels...I want to say sleazy but many feel that way about NIL and many other aspects of culture. Maybe this is a sign of age and I should just back up and say, "If K loves it, can it be that bad?" Wow, that's a weak argument. Viva Las Vegas!!!!

[cbolden1]

If only there were a few examples of players that fit this mold, we might have an idea of Mitchell's potential. I mean, Jayson Tatum, Brandon Ingram, Jalen Johnson, Tari Eason, Jeremy Sochan, Jonathan Kuminga, Keldon Johnson, Patrick Williams, Scottie Barnes, and maybe a couple others drafted in the past few years come to mind. But there can't be another 10-20 players like that in the NBA. I could look, but what would be the point?

You also named a bunch of players who games are nothing like Mitchells. They are big 3 who can handle and create off the dribble and shoot some coming out. MM at this point hasn't shown thats he's that kind of guy.

[tommy]

Color me impressed by both Henderson and Wemby. First off, I laughed when Corey Alexander was the analyst because I know many DBR denizens were cursing the television as soon as they heard his voice. The comparisons of Henderson to Derrick Rose seemed a little bit of a stretch because Henderson seems like a better outside shooter and I don't think he's quite as explosive as the combustible D.Rose but, man, that dude is GOOOD.

As for Wemby, he's a complete freak. He obviously has to get stronger but he is a better version of Chet Holmgren in that he's that much smoother in all aspects of the game, and Chet is pretty smooth.

Interesting that the G-League Ignite now has a permanent home in Henderson, NV. As an aside, and this is a real tangent, the fact that so much of our sporting culture now revolves around gambling, and the fact that Vegas is adding sports franchises at a rate that makes it seem like every team in the United States will eventually be headquartered there...and the NBA is especially enamoured of if...it just feels...I want to say sleazy but many feel that way about NIL and many other aspects of culture. Maybe this is a sign of age and I should just back up and say, "If K loves it, can it be that bad?" Wow, that's a weak argument. Viva Las Vegas!!!!

Let me guess: Alexander referred to both of them as “my guy.”

[Billy Dat]

Let me guess: Alexander referred to both of them as “my guy.”

Close...Wembanyama was "Mon gars!"

[dukelifer]

G-League Ignite beat Metropolitans 92 by a score of 122-115. I haven't come across a box score yet, but I have a recap, an image, and a video:

Attachment 15020

Hmmmm. A 7' 3" Kevin Durant who is not at his full potential. Does not seem fair.

[superdave]

Hmmmm. A 7' 3" Kevin Durant who is not at his full potential. Does not seem fair.

If he can stay healthy. I hate to bring this up, but what is history of durability and longevity for guys with this build?

Porzingis, Anthony Davis, Ralph Sampson come to mind.

[bundabergdevil]

..was "Mon gars!"

Wembanyama.
I’m pretty sure that’s what they sing at the beginning of The Lion King.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FyTZRrRzjvY

[HayYou]

If only there were a few examples of players that fit this mold, we might have an idea of Mitchell's potential. I mean, Jayson Tatum, Brandon Ingram, Jalen Johnson, Tari Eason, Jeremy Sochan, Jonathan Kuminga, Keldon Johnson, Patrick Williams, Scottie Barnes, and maybe a couple others drafted in the past few years come to mind. But there can't be another 10-20 players like that in the NBA. I could look, but what would be the point?

MM ain't none of those guys. Not one.

Tatum and Ingram were top 3 in loaded classes. MM isn't top 10 in a class that saw its best 4 players, or at least 4 of the top 5, exit the class.

All of the guys you mentioned save Jalen Johnson were listed as SFs. MM is listed as a PF. And Jalen is more athletic than MM. And I think the Hawks might be regretting that decision. I mean, Ingram, Tatum, Kuminga, Johnson, and Barnes are way more skilled, and quicker, than MM.

See the difference?

SF, as in perimeter skilled.

PF, as in not perimeter skilled.

I'll throw out some other names. Lane Thomas, Amile Jefferson. Those guys were ranked closer to MM than most of the list of guys you threw out.

Heck, if you are going to list 6-8is or 6-9ish guys throw out Larry Bird or Dominique Wilkins. Because based on your list all that matters is height.

Because MM doesn't have the perimeter skills to match the list you put out, so I know that isn't what you are going by.

[Billy Dat]

Wembanyama.
I’m pretty sure that’s what they sing at the beginning of The Lion King.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FyTZRrRzjvY

Very good

[DavidBenAkiva]

MM ain't none of those guys. Not one.

Tatum and Ingram were top 3 in loaded classes. MM isn't top 10 in a class that saw its best 4 players, or at least 4 of the top 5, exit the class.

All of the guys you mentioned save Jalen Johnson were listed as SFs. MM is listed as a PF. And Jalen is more athletic than MM. And I think the Hawks might be regretting that decision. I mean, Ingram, Tatum, Kuminga, Johnson, and Barnes are way more skilled, and quicker, than MM.

See the difference?

SF, as in perimeter skilled.

PF, as in not perimeter skilled.

I'll throw out some other names. Lane Thomas, Amile Jefferson. Those guys were ranked closer to MM than most of the list of guys you threw out.

Heck, if you are going to list 6-8is or 6-9ish guys throw out Larry Bird or Dominique Wilkins. Because based on your list all that matters is height.

Because MM doesn't have the perimeter skills to match the list you put out, so I know that isn't what you are going by.

It's fun to make up your own definitions for terms that are not shared by others, isn't it? That seems the be the game you are playing.

Here's a test. What position does Luka Doncic play?

Bonus question. Did you watch the McDonald's All-American game skills competition this year? Guess who won.

[dukelifer]

If he can stay healthy. I hate to bring this up, but what is history of durability and longevity for guys with this build?

Porzingis, Anthony Davis, Ralph Sampson come to mind.

Add Holmgren. Truth is that bball players at any size can get injured. Knees and ankles are not designed for repeated jumping from 2-3 feet.

[DavidBenAkiva]

You also named a bunch of players who games are nothing like Mitchells. They are big 3 who can handle and create off the dribble and shoot some coming out. MM at this point hasn't shown thats he's that kind of guy.

The list I provided are guys that don't really fit into a traditional 1-5 role, either in college or the NBA. They are multipositional forwards/wings. Some are creating bigs like Tatum. Others are more 3-and-D guys while others are defensive specialists. I actually think Kuminga, Eason, and Sochan and, to a lesser extent, Barnes, are very good comps for Mark Mitchell. None of Barnes, Eason, and Sochan shot often or accurately from 3 as freshmen. All three are guys that can defend nearly anyone on the court. I think that's what we're going to see out of Mitchell, a guy that defends a ton of players, can handle a little, takes open 3's on occasion, and makes plays in the passing lane on defense. That's not a "small forward" or "power forward" per se. The game has evolved beyond rigid definitions of roles. If I had to give a term for him, he's a college 4 or super glue guy.

[Kedsy]

The list I provided are guys that don't really fit into a traditional 1-5 role, either in college or the NBA. They are multipositional forwards/wings. Some are creating bigs like Tatum. Others are more 3-and-D guys while others are defensive specialists. I actually think Kuminga, Eason, and Sochan and, to a lesser extent, Barnes, are very good comps for Mark Mitchell. None of Barnes, Eason, and Sochan shot often or accurately from 3 as freshmen. All three are guys that can defend nearly anyone on the court. I think that's what we're going to see out of Mitchell, a guy that defends a ton of players, can handle a little, takes open 3's on occasion, and makes plays in the passing lane on defense. That's not a "small forward" or "power forward" per se. The game has evolved beyond rigid definitions of roles. If I had to give a term for him, he's a college 4 or super glue guy.

I have no bone in this argument, but I don't think many of the players you've named (Jayson Tatum, Brandon Ingram, Jalen Johnson, Tari Eason, Jeremy Sochan, Jonathan Kuminga, Keldon Johnson, Patrick Williams, Scottie Barnes) are particularly good comps for Mark Mitchell. I'd say the closest to the ones you've named are Sochan, Eason, and Patrick Williams. Definitely not Tatum, Ingram, either Johnson, Kuminga, or Barnes. Obviously we haven't seen Mark play in a college game yet, so maybe he'll surprise.

[DavidBenAkiva]

I have no bone in this argument, but I don't think many of the players you've named (Jayson Tatum, Brandon Ingram, Jalen Johnson, Tari Eason, Jeremy Sochan, Jonathan Kuminga, Keldon Johnson, Patrick Williams, Scottie Barnes) are particularly good comps for Mark Mitchell. I'd say the closest to the ones you've named are Sochan, Eason, and Patrick Williams. Definitely not Tatum, Ingram, either Johnson, Kuminga, or Barnes. Obviously we haven't seen Mark play in a college game yet, so maybe he'll surprise.

I agree that Tatum, Ingram, and others are not good comps for Mitchell and didn't mean to imply they were. The original comment was stating that 'players that have NBA SF bodies but play PF in college' are not successful in the NBA. Clearly, there are many, many examples of players just like that.

The main issue in my mind with this line of thinking is that there are set "small forward" and "power forward" roles in the NBA these days. There aren't and haven't been for a long time. Mitchell's path to the NBA is going to look like Sochan, Eason, Kuminga, and others. That is, he is going to be expected to be a versatile and effective defender that flashes a few skills on the offensive end. If he can shoot the ball, then he might even push towards the top half of the 1st round. You might call that position a 3-and-D, a forward, or just a wing in the NBA. At Duke, we will probably call him a forward.

[DukieTiger]

MM ain't none of those guys. Not one.

Tatum and Ingram were top 3 in loaded classes. MM isn't top 10 in a class that saw its best 4 players, or at least 4 of the top 5, exit the class.

All of the guys you mentioned save Jalen Johnson were listed as SFs. MM is listed as a PF. And Jalen is more athletic than MM. And I think the Hawks might be regretting that decision. I mean, Ingram, Tatum, Kuminga, Johnson, and Barnes are way more skilled, and quicker, than MM.

See the difference?

SF, as in perimeter skilled.

PF, as in not perimeter skilled.

I'll throw out some other names. Lane Thomas, Amile Jefferson. Those guys were ranked closer to MM than most of the list of guys you threw out.

Heck, if you are going to list 6-8is or 6-9ish guys throw out Larry Bird or Dominique Wilkins. Because based on your list all that matters is height.

Because MM doesn't have the perimeter skills to match the list you put out, so I know that isn't what you are going by.

My friend, if you’re going to be condescending to a well-respected poster, you could at least bother to do a little research to back up your claims.

Re: the list of guys all being small forwards…
Tari Eason: https://247sports.com/player/tari-eason-46057652/
Jeremy Sochan: https://247sports.com/Player/Jeremy-...school-253524/

Re: Ingram being top 3 in a loaded class, the top 15 that year were: Ben Simmons, Skal Labissiere, Chieck Diallo, Jaylen Brown, Alonzo Trier, Malik Newman, Diamond Stone, Dwayne Bacon, Jamal Murray, Ivan Rabb, Ray Smith, Thomas Bryant, Antonio Blakeney, Stephen Zimmerman. Seems like a fairly average class that looks better in hindsight thanks to Murray and Brown.

Re: all of those examples being quicker than Mitchell - I’m assuming you’ve seen them race or play on the same court? Because otherwise you’re just stating an opinion and I can just as easily state mine, that Mitchell is on a comparable level, quickness-wise when compared to those guys.

I’m not even trying to argue one side or another. Just don’t love the attitude from someone who states their opinion as fact.

[dukelifer]

MM ain't none of those guys. Not one.

Tatum and Ingram were top 3 in loaded classes. MM isn't top 10 in a class that saw its best 4 players, or at least 4 of the top 5, exit the class.

All of the guys you mentioned save Jalen Johnson were listed as SFs. MM is listed as a PF. And Jalen is more athletic than MM. And I think the Hawks might be regretting that decision. I mean, Ingram, Tatum, Kuminga, Johnson, and Barnes are way more skilled, and quicker, than MM.

See the difference?

SF, as in perimeter skilled.

PF, as in not perimeter skilled.

I'll throw out some other names. Lane Thomas, Amile Jefferson. Those guys were ranked closer to MM than most of the list of guys you threw out.

Heck, if you are going to list 6-8is or 6-9ish guys throw out Larry Bird or Dominique Wilkins. Because based on your list all that matters is height.

Because MM doesn't have the perimeter skills to match the list you put out, so I know that isn't what you are going by.

I am curious if you are a high school scout. I assume you have seen Mitchell play a lot. I have not seen him beyond a few all star games where he looked as good if not better than the top guys in this class. Of course those are not great games to determine ability. Let’s wait to see this guy in college. A lot of guys improve rapidly as their bodies mature. Mitchell could be one of those guys. Based on the little I have seen- he looks to have a very high ceiling.

[tommy]

I am curious if you are a high school scout. I assume you have seen Mitchell play a lot. I have not seen him beyond a few all star games where he looked as good if not better than the top guys in this class. Of course those are not great games to determine ability. Let’s wait to see this guy in college. A lot of guys improve rapidly as their bodies mature. Mitchell could be one of those guys. Based on the little I have seen- he looks to have a very high ceiling.

A scout? This is a guy who thinks TJ Power is going to play the 5 at Duke and also thinks there is almost nothing of value to be gained in terms of player evaluation in watching recruits play in grassroots basketball settings. So I'm gonna say no chance.

[scottdude8]

I am curious if you are a high school scout. I assume you have seen Mitchell play a lot. I have not seen him beyond a few all star games where he looked as good if not better than the top guys in this class. Of course those are not great games to determine ability. Let’s wait to see this guy in college. A lot of guys improve rapidly as their bodies mature. Mitchell could be one of those guys. Based on the little I have seen- he looks to have a very high ceiling.

A scout? This is a guy who thinks TJ Power is going to play the 5 at Duke and also thinks there is almost nothing of value to be gained in terms of player evaluation in watching recruits play in grassroots basketball settings. So I'm gonna say no chance.

I personally read dukelifer's post with a ton of sarcasm in it, haha.

Let us not forget the poster we're discussing also stated that Dariq was going to exclusively be a shooting guard at Duke and at the next level, despite every reputed expert (and I believe Dariq himself) saying the opposite. This poster has a pattern of saying outlandish things with absolute certainty in an attempt to provoke a response from the board (if only there was a word for such an individual...). The mute function is part of the board for a reason