Crypto Conversation

[Wheat/"/"/"]

In Wheat’s defense, his school has been known to counterfeit degrees. If it’s happening at the state level, then it might also be happening at the federal.

When this sort of post shows up in a thread that I have commented on, it’s time for me to go.

I’ll stop back by sometime in the future and we’ll see where my belief and investment in Bitcoin stands at that time.

[snowdenscold]

Really? No rebuttal to the multiple responses people gave about inflation?

The one UNC joke is the path out?

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

When this sort of post shows up in a thread that I have commented on, it’s time for me to go.

I’ll stop back by sometime in the future and we’ll see where my belief and investment in Bitcoin stands at that time.

I've defended you multiple times on this board for a myriad of reasons, but I can't possibly believe that this jab was unexpected or would push you out the door.

Come on, Wheat. It's a Duke message board. We reserve the right to poke the intruders, within good fun.

[PackMan97]

You know me, I'm not a fan, but I think y'all are being overly harsh on him. IIRC, he's been put on a very strict notice by the moderators of this site for previous transgressions. He has good reasons for reacting this way and I for one will not judge him because of that.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

You know me, I'm not a fan, but I think y'all are being overly harsh on him. IIRC, he's been put on a very strict notice by the moderators of this site for previous transgressions. He has good reasons for reacting this way and I for one will not judge him because of that.

I agree in principle. Wheat has been a very interesting sounding board for this particular issue.

But, being an outlier on this thread as a crypto advocate AND an outlier for his fandom means he's going to take a little flak from the peanut gallery.

I'm not generally a fan of picking on a particular poster, but I'm also not a fan of picking up your ball and heading home because of a joke.

[Skydog]

I've learned a lot from this thread. Wheat makes his pro-crypto arguments, other posters challenge those arguments. Learning happens at the intersection.

[fidel]

I've learned a lot from this thread. Wheat makes his pro-crypto arguments, other posters challenge those arguments. Learning happens at the intersection.

I agree, he framed the pro-crypto arguments and responded as others pushed some of the arguments deeper.

That said, I am finding the ‘libertarian utopia Uber Alles’ as wanting. I understand the desire to remove politics from finance, but it doesn’t seem to withstand scrutiny as being better.

I would love a financially sound pro-argument to help me understand what I am missing.

[OldPhiKap]

I agree, he framed the pro-crypto arguments and responded as others pushed some of the arguments deeper.

That said, I am finding the ‘libertarian utopia Uber Alles’ as wanting. I understand the desire to remove politics from finance, but it doesn’t seem to withstand scrutiny as being better.

I would love a financially sound pro-argument to help me understand what I am missing.

Perfectly stated IMO, fidel.

(Must spread Sporkz, yadda yadda yadda.)

[mpj96]

Wheat's participation in this thread has educated me considerably as to the subject of cryptocurrency. Perhaps that's not such a big hill to climb when starting from scratch but I really do appreciate his contribution.

I think Wheat is right that large financial institutions will soon be able to place bets in this space. I also agree with him that this will bid up some crypto like BTC. It will probably also cause quite a few to try to issue their own coin.

All of that said I do really struggle to see a value presented by these digital currencies outside of the value it presents to criminal organizations as a digital alternative to paper money.

Without a strong value proposition, the need for cold wallets and the like is just too tall a hurdle for me to jump at this point.

I am also put off by the "scammy" / ponzi scheme feel of almost every pro-crypto article I read and video I watch. It is possible this visceral response is preventing me from objectively viewing the value proposition in the material presented.

Maybe this is digital gold. I may well be missing out. If so, it won't be the first time or the last.

On the other hand, if it is indeed a big series of ponzi schemes, the scale is extremely troubling.

Ponzi schemes never last forever and so much "money" is in these vehicles that a loss of confidence could have systemic effect.

[budwom]

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/26/inves...ing/index.html

a view disparate views

[Acymetric]

My summary of crypto messaging over the last decade-ish (also seen here in this thread):

"Crypto is the ultimate new currency to replace government issued currency."

"Ok, crypto isn't going to replace currency but it is a great way to store value like gold but better."

"Ok, it isn't stable or intrinsically valuable like gold, but it can be used to replace payment processors if we can convince people they should adopt it for some reason."


This deal is getting worse all the time.

[OldPhiKap]

My summary of crypto messaging over the last decade-ish (also seen here in this thread):

"Crypto is the ultimate new currency to replace government issued currency."

"Ok, crypto isn't going to replace currency but it is a great way to store value like gold but better."

"Ok, it isn't stable or intrinsically valuable like gold, but it can be used to replace payment processors if we can convince people they should adopt it for some reason."


This deal is getting worse all the time.

“Brazil is the economy of the future — and always will be”

[Jeffrey]

My summary of crypto messaging over the last decade-ish (also seen here in this thread):

"Crypto is the ultimate new currency to replace government issued currency."

"Ok, crypto isn't going to replace currency but it is a great way to store value like gold but better."

"Ok, it isn't stable or intrinsically valuable like gold, but it can be used to replace payment processors if we can convince people they should adopt it for some reason."


This deal is getting worse all the time.

Very true! I ultimately expect substantial rebranding away from “currency”. IMO, the biggest returns will be made in block chain technology.

[fidel]

Very true! I ultimately expect substantial rebranding away from “currency”. IMO, the biggest returns will be made in block chain technology.

This is a likely outcome, but as others have said a governing body that can manage technology evolution is required. Just because it is a good idea doesn’t make it a good idea. Or something.

I often get frustrated that banks think my money is actually theirs. There are a lot of attributes of open banking that blockchain can simplify. We will see what comes to fruition.

Let me know if you find anything investable (the company, not the coin). 🤩

[Jeffrey]

This is a likely outcome, but as others have said a governing body that can manage technology evolution is required. Just because it is a good idea doesn’t make it a good idea. Or something.

I often get frustrated that banks think my money is actually theirs. There are a lot of attributes of open banking that blockchain can simplify. We will see what comes to fruition.

Let me know if you find anything investable (the company, not the coin). 🤩

History repeats and I expect most of the profits will be made by the major payment processors and financial institutions (using blockchain technology). Press rewind 15-20 years ago, when check payments were converted to debit card transactions. Check processing was very expensive and relatively inefficient (such as lost Federal Reserve cash letters) for financial institutions. Buying stock in the major debit card payment processors (Visa and MasterCard) was our first move (15-20 years ago). Then, we bought stock (unfortunately, during the same time period) in retail based financial institutions. Instead of checking accounts being an intentional loss leader (for primary financial institution purposes), they became a major profit generator from shared payment processing fees and substantially less expenses. In addition, the retail financial institutions immediately had the ability to reject any NSF debit payment requests (unlike check payments) and chose instead to make billions off of NSF fees. Only now are those financial institutions rejecting the NSF debit payment requests and no longer exploiting customers for completely unnecessary NSF fees.

[mpj96]

Interesting article describing use cases for blockchain identified in patents by major credit card companies:

https://www.signifytechnology.com/bl...urce=google.it

Easy to see why this would have appeal to financial institutions. Anything that can effectively lower business transaction costs (and maybe much further down the line - fees) is welcome.

[snowdenscold]

Interesting article describing use cases for blockchain identified in patents by major credit card companies:

https://www.signifytechnology.com/bl...urce=google.it

Easy to see why this would have appeal to financial institutions. Anything that can effectively lower business transaction costs (and maybe much further down the line - fees) is welcome.

FWIW, that article was written 4 years ago by a startup company that seems to now focus on a Bitcoin casino.

I'd be curious what the current state of those blockchain projects, because in my experience, I saw a ton of hype as companies rushed out to make announcements in this space 4-5 years ago, only to not have anything tangible really come from it. Often they realized the problems either couldn't be solved by public blockchain, or could be solved more efficiently via more traditional means. But hey, calling it "blockchain" gets more press/buzz, right?

Anyway, maybe Visa and Mastercard have something disruptive that's come out of it, but I'm fairly skeptical of anything announced four years ago.

[budwom]

parenthetical aside: There is some evidence that Duke's massive endowment growth this past year (55%) was at least partially due to an early investment in Coinbase. I wonder if DUMAC has sold off much of those (declining) holdings or not. We'll know in the Fall.

[fidel]

History repeats and I expect most of the profits will be made by the major payment processors and financial institutions (using blockchain technology). Press rewind 15-20 years ago, when check payments were converted to debit card transactions. Check processing was very expensive and relatively inefficient (such as lost Federal Reserve cash letters) for financial institutions. Buying stock in the major debit card payment processors (Visa and MasterCard) was our first move (15-20 years ago). Then, we bought stock (unfortunately, during the same time period) in retail based financial institutions. Instead of checking accounts being an intentional loss leader (for primary financial institution purposes), they became a major profit generator from shared payment processing fees and substantially less expenses. In addition, the retail financial institutions immediately had the ability to reject any NSF debit payment requests (unlike check payments) and chose instead to make billions off of NSF fees. Only now are those financial institutions rejecting the NSF debit payment requests and no longer exploiting customers for completely unnecessary NSF fees.

I agree with this. I’m continuing to look at startups like Acorn or Square that bring the power of mobile/user experience that solves problems the existing players were/are happy to not solve.

The key is going to be solving identity, how ‘virtual me’ is actually me. Interesting stuff going on.

[Jeffrey]

In addition, the retail financial institutions immediately had the ability to reject any NSF debit payment requests (unlike check payments) and chose instead to make billions off of NSF fees. Only now are those financial institutions rejecting the NSF debit payment requests and no longer exploiting customers for completely unnecessary NSF fees.

Who instructed financial institutions to charge you this and other fees (~ 15 years ago)? Your US Government (financial institution regulators).

History repeats. Don’t expect the US Government to protect you from crypto and blockchain abuse.