Teslas and other electric vehicles

[burnspbesq]

This comparison only holds water if the insurrectionists stormed the Capitol astride semi-autonomous robot Trumps engineered by Trump Corp, which they...(checks google)...did not.

I'm just saying the window of possibility to find out that Tesla knew of more issues with their software is pretty significant. Regulatory approvals and buyer bewares aside, if Tesla is ever found to have withheld anything, they could be in a world of VW dieselgate-level hurt.

You’re over-thinking it. My comment related only to juries’ ability to see through cow-pucky.

[bundabergdevil]

You’re over-thinking it. My comment related only to juries’ ability to see through cow-pucky.

You must be long on Tesla stock…

[burnspbesq]

You must be long on Tesla stock…

Wouldn’t invest your money in TSLA, much less mine. I prefer well-managed companies with products I know and trust.

[bundabergdevil]

Prescient discussion on the legal dynamics. Elon lawyers up:

“On Friday Musk announced on Twitter that Tesla was forming a "hardcore" litigation department that will report directly to him. Musk stated the department will "never seek victory in a just case against us" but equally it won't ever surrender in the instance of an unjust case against Tesla. “

https://insideevs.com/news/587286/el...epartment/amp/

[jimsumner]

Prescient discussion on the legal dynamics. Elon lawyers up:

“On Friday Musk announced on Twitter that Tesla was forming a "hardcore" litigation department that will report directly to him. Musk stated the department will "never seek victory in a just case against us" but equally it won't ever surrender in the instance of an unjust case against Tesla. “

https://insideevs.com/news/587286/el...epartment/amp/

Just curious but who decides if a case is just or not?

[bundabergdevil]

Just curious but who decides if a case is just or not?

The way he constructed his statement implies it will be Elon. 🤷

[PackMan97]

they could be in a world of VW dieselgate-level hurt.

VW seems to be doing fine.

[bundabergdevil]

VW seems to be doing fine.

They’re $35B poorer (and still paying), had to recall hundreds of thousands of cars, and some of their executives went to jail.

I wouldn’t call that “fine” but, yes, they are still a company.

[PackMan97]

They’re $35B poorer (and still paying), had to recall hundreds of thousands of cars, and some of their executives went to jail.

I wouldn’t call that “fine” but, yes, they are still a company.

...and they did slip from the largest car company in the word to #2. So there is that.

[bundabergdevil]

...and they did slip from the largest car company in the word to #2. So there is that.

Do you think they should have been punished in a way that forced them to cease functioning as a company?

I’d put the opportunity cost from lost revenue and profitability near $100B. It was a serious crime and they paid and individuals are in jail. I’d say the punishment fit the crime so I wish them well in their ongoing business.

[PackMan97]

Do you think they should have been punished in a way that forced them to cease functioning as a company?

I think they should have been forced to put Homer Simpson in charge of new car design.

[budwom]

Do you think they should have been punished in a way that forced them to cease functioning as a company?

I’d put the opportunity cost from lost revenue and profitability near $100B. It was a serious crime and they paid and individuals are in jail. I’d say the punishment fit the crime so I wish them well in their ongoing business.

I read a recent article in which they seemed to acknowledge that the scandal caused them to underinvest in the kinds of cars Americans want to buy (SUVs primarily)...they did indeed pay a big price for a big crime.

[TheDevilMadeMeDoIt]

Just saw the new Cadillac Lyrik at the local Caddy store. It was a preproduction model, not available to test drive. The price fully loaded, including Supercruise, was $63,000. About the same as a Tesla model Y, not fully loaded and pretty spartan inside compared to the Cadillac. The comparable electric BMW is a out $20,000 more. The Cadillac may be serious competition to Tesla. Not sure how Cadillac is selling a fully optioned electric for $63,000 in light of comparison to comparable electrics. Cadillac sold out the entire 2023 model year in a few hours on May 19, roughly 25,000 cars for delivery this fall and early next year.

[Bluedog]

Just saw the new Cadillac Lyrik at the local Caddy store. It was a preproduction model, not available to test drive. The price fully loaded, including Supercruise, was $63,000. About the same as a Tesla model Y, not fully loaded and pretty spartan inside compared to the Cadillac. The comparable electric BMW is a out $20,000 more. The Cadillac may be serious competition to Tesla. Not sure how Cadillac is selling a fully optioned electric for $63,000 in light of comparison to comparable electrics. Cadillac sold out the entire 2023 model year in a few hours on May 19, roughly 25,000 cars for delivery this fall and early next year.

Nice. It's "Lyriq" it appears. Looks pretty nice. I would imagine not offering things like leather (what is "interluxe seating" and shouldn't a $60k+ car offer leather as an option?) and perhaps concessions on high cost parts could be at play, but specs overall look good to me. Still, might not have the 'luxury'/'performance' of a BMW and is marketing/pricing for more mass appeal.

I'm considering a PHEV as my next vehicle, but can't really find one I want so much. I feel like it's a good compromise given I do mostly around town driving, but want the option to drive long distance for trips sometimes without taking so long to fill up/find charging stations. Hopefully the infrastructure improves fairly quickly. Looking at the BMW X5 PHEV which is actually cheaper than the non-electric version for now with the tax credits. Hard to find them though and order times are very long. Ideally, would want third row though, but can't as battery takes up the space below it...I think the "big family SUV" electric market still hasn't been tapped. It's basically compact SUVs at this juncture. I don't want a huge SUV though, want a mid-size with "cramped third row" to shuttle kids if needed.

I'd consider fully electric for an "around town" car more, but not in the market for two vehicles at the moment and doesn't seem worth it at this time. Electric costs have also gone way up recently too (although not as bad as fuel perhaps), and the math isn't always so obvious depending on individual circumstances (if you count the upcharge in initial purchase). Not just a cost decision though admittedly.

[burnspbesq]

Nice. It's "Lyriq" it appears. Looks pretty nice. I would imagine not offering things like leather (what is "interluxe seating" and shouldn't a $60k+ car offer leather as an option?) and perhaps concessions on high cost parts could be at play, but specs overall look good to me. Still, might not have the 'luxury'/'performance' of a BMW and is marketing/pricing for more mass appeal.

I'm considering a PHEV as my next vehicle, but can't really find one I want so much. I feel like it's a good compromise given I do mostly around town driving, but want the option to drive long distance for trips sometimes without taking so long to fill up/find charging stations. Hopefully the infrastructure improves fairly quickly. Looking at the BMW X5 PHEV which is actually cheaper than the non-electric version for now with the tax credits. Hard to find them though and order times are very long. Ideally, would want third row though, but can't as battery takes up the space below it...I think the "big family SUV" electric market still hasn't been tapped. It's basically compact SUVs at this juncture. I don't want a huge SUV though, want a mid-size with "cramped third row" to shuttle kids if needed.

I'd consider fully electric for an "around town" car more, but not in the market for two vehicles at the moment and doesn't seem worth it at this time. Electric costs have also gone way up recently too (although not as bad as fuel perhaps), and the math isn't always so obvious depending on individual circumstances (if you count the upcharge in initial purchase). Not just a cost decision though admittedly.

Before you pull the trigger on anything, check out the “big” Audi e-Tron.

[Bluedog]

Before you pull the trigger on anything, check out the “big” Audi e-Tron.

Thanks for the rec. I have seen that as well. I think the viral repair estimate of $38k for a small fender bender has scared me!
https://www.autoevolution.com/news/a...us-166090.html

[budwom]

There are going to be a lot of new and interesting electric choices, but I'm going to sit back and wait to see how reliable they turn out to be...for all that Tesla has accomplished, reliability has been not good at all per Consumer Reports feedback from owners...predicted reliability, as a result, is much worse than average for all new models. The older I get, the more I value not having to spend time or money getting a car fixed. I chose my last vehicle with that criterion, and nine years in not a single failure to report.

[TheDevilMadeMeDoIt]

Before you pull the trigger on anything, check out the “big” Audi e-Tron.

The range of the Audi was a deal breaker for me, only about 200 miles. My breaking point has been at least 300 miles, which the Cadillac has. The Cadillac looks small in the ads, but not in person. It’s larger than the Audi e-tron. Wheelbase of 121.8 inches 196” long and 86.9inches wide. Roughly the same size as Cadillac xt6, their largest suv not named Escalade. It does not have leather, neither does Tesla and many Mercedes. The interior is lovely, not sure I would know it’s not leather from just looking.

I loved the original Tesla Model S, looks, performance and range, but more than I would pay for a car. Plus at the time I lived 140 miles from the nearest metropolitan area. The subsequent Teslas simply didn’t make the looks test for me. Now I have soured on Elon, a genius, but an A hole.

As an old man, I sometimes travel long distances, but the 300 mile range probably exceeds my bladder capacity.

It will be interesting to see when traditional gas stations along the interstates add electric chargers. I keep looking but haven’t seen any yet.

[-jk]

Lots of charging stations out there, but not as many as I'd like. Range anxiety is real!

We have a hybrid Accord (love it - roomy, great handling and acceleration, and 40+ mpg). We're looking at getting a fully electric compact suv in a year or two to replace the 20yo Pilot with 290K miles.

One of my kids plays double bass, so whatever we get needs to be able to haul it without sticking parts out a window or sunroof, and we do need a car with AWD. Apparently Subaru has an option where you buy a battery car and get 10 days a year of a loaner gas car. A novel solution to range anxiety.

-jk

[Bluedog]

Lots of charging stations out there, but not as many as I'd like. Range anxiety is real!

We have a hybrid Accord (love it - roomy, great handling and acceleration, and 40+ mpg). We're looking at getting a fully electric compact suv in a year or two to replace the 20yo Pilot with 290K miles.

One of my kids plays double bass, so whatever we get needs to be able to haul it without sticking parts out a window or sunroof, and we do need a car with AWD. Apparently Subaru has an option where you buy a battery car and get 10 days a year of a loaner gas car. A novel solution to range anxiety.

-jk

I wonder if rental cars will grow in popularity for road trips as EVs get more popular. Although seems kinda silly to have to rent a car for a long trip given you buy the car you want for its comfort/amenities/everything else, and it's an extra hassle. But I actually know people who do that today (i.e. rent a vehicle for long road trips) because they don't want "wear and tear" on their owned vehicle (which seems odd to me, but whatever floats your boat).