Where Do Zombies Come From?

[CameronBornAndBred]

I've been binging Fear The Walking Dead for the last couple weeks (and enjoying it, obviously, since I'm still binging). However, even though it's fun, there are lots of things that annoy me about it, and other zombie shows/movies in general.

First and foremost amongst all of my pet peeves, is where do new zombies come from? I'm not talking about one or two, but I'm talking about enough to make an entire horde.

Picture that you and two friends of yours are unlucky enough to be in the dawn of the Zombie Apocalypse. As you are supposed to do, you make the wise decision to retreat from the 10 zombies outside your house by hiding in the basement. Of course the zombies break in, get you and your two buddies.

Now maybe you are lucky enough to get away, but unfortunately you get bitten. John and Bob, however, don't get out. They get turned into a zombie buffet. We've all seen that. The zombies tear into John and Bob, at most leaving a leg or two. They go for the throats first, too, which leaves them headless, likely no torso, and that one leg.

Well that means while you are doomed to become a zombie, John and Bob are no longer able to go off and join the horde that killed and ate them, much less any other horde. There simply isn't enough left to make a dead person mobile. Said scenario plays out all across the country, thus leaving new zombies with the ability to walk in a herd a very rare and endangered species.

So, where do the all of the new zombies come from that we see in the movies?

As said, this is one of many zombie pet peeves.

[Acymetric]

Point of order before we proceed: Can we assume that this thread is going to have all kinds of spoilers for past zombie shows and movies (including FTWD and TWD) without wrapping everything with spoiler tags and disclaimers? Anyways, in the Walking Dead universe you can probably hand-wave it away by saying that not everyone dies of a zombie attack. Plenty of people are dying of starvation, exposure, regular murder, lack of medical care, etc.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Point of order before we proceed: Can we assume that this thread is going to have all kinds of spoilers for past zombie shows and movies (including FTWD and TWD) without wrapping everything with spoiler tags and disclaimers? Anyways, in the Walking Dead universe you can probably hand-wave it away by saying that not everyone dies of a zombie attack. Plenty of people are dying of starvation, exposure, regular murder, lack of medical care, etc.

Should be fairly easy to stay spoiler free, it's not show specific.

Your point is worthy, but let's look at it in stages. There is ALWAYS stage one. A ton people die and become zombies (or in the case of George Romero's zombies start out dead). But as in all shows/movies, a small number of people can take out lots of their foes before succumbing. So we'll generously in the zombie's favor give the living a 1 to 5 success rate. Meaning that you take out 5 zombies before you yourself get bitten. But then, not all of those bitten folks run away, some go down John and Bob style.
The numbers don't work out for long haul horde building as we see so often.

A few months down the road after stage one, there just aren't enough living people left to support them. And those that ARE living, at least in the shows, are still alive because they've made a habit of braining a few dozen dead every week. They are good at not leaving the undead still undead.

By the way...the head shot thing? That leads to pet peeve number two. And this one is directed at Romero. He made a point of how zombies love eating brains. Well, if you eat your victims' brains, that flat out guarantees they ain't coming back from the dead, since to kill a zombie you have to destroy their intact brain.

[OldPhiKap]

I've been binging Fear The Walking Dead for the last couple weeks (and enjoying it, obviously, since I'm still binging). However, even though it's fun, there are lots of things that annoy me about it, and other zombie shows/movies in general.

First and foremost amongst all of my pet peeves, is where do new zombies come from? I'm not talking about one or two, but I'm talking about enough to make an entire horde.

Picture that you and two friends of yours are unlucky enough to be in the dawn of the Zombie Apocalypse. As you are supposed to do, you make the wise decision to retreat from the 10 zombies outside your house by hiding in the basement. Of course the zombies break in, get you and your two buddies.

Now maybe you are lucky enough to get away, but unfortunately you get bitten. John and Bob, however, don't get out. They get turned into a zombie buffet. We've all seen that. The zombies tear into John and Bob, at most leaving a leg or two. They go for the throats first, too, which leaves them headless, likely no torso, and that one leg.

Well that means while you are doomed to become a zombie, John and Bob are no longer able to go off and join the horde that killed and ate them, much less any other horde. There simply isn't enough left to make a dead person mobile. Said scenario plays out all across the country, thus leaving new zombies with the ability to walk in a herd a very rare and endangered species.

So, where do the all of the new zombies come from that we see in the movies?

As said, this is one of many zombie pet peeves.

You need this:

149D874C-758E-49A3-9276-2D4CD97AB5C5.jpg

Written by Mel Brooks’ son, Max. It details documented zombie virus breakouts in history, as well as a good discussion of the virus which causes zombieism.

And of course is an Army Manual for how to survive — which weapons work best, worst places to seek shelter, etc.

Forewarned is forearmed.

[duke74]

I've been binging Fear The Walking Dead for the last couple weeks (and enjoying it, obviously, since I'm still binging). However, even though it's fun, there are lots of things that annoy me about it, and other zombie shows/movies in general.

First and foremost amongst all of my pet peeves, is where do new zombies come from? I'm not talking about one or two, but I'm talking about enough to make an entire horde.

Picture that you and two friends of yours are unlucky enough to be in the dawn of the Zombie Apocalypse. As you are supposed to do, you make the wise decision to retreat from the 10 zombies outside your house by hiding in the basement. Of course the zombies break in, get you and your two buddies.

Now maybe you are lucky enough to get away, but unfortunately you get bitten. John and Bob, however, don't get out. They get turned into a zombie buffet. We've all seen that. The zombies tear into John and Bob, at most leaving a leg or two. They go for the throats first, too, which leaves them headless, likely no torso, and that one leg.

Well that means while you are doomed to become a zombie, John and Bob are no longer able to go off and join the horde that killed and ate them, much less any other horde. There simply isn't enough left to make a dead person mobile. Said scenario plays out all across the country, thus leaving new zombies with the ability to walk in a herd a very rare and endangered species.

So, where do the all of the new zombies come from that we see in the movies?

As said, this is one of many zombie pet peeves.

Brought by zombie storks?

[OldPhiKap]

Brought by zombie storks?

Zombie birds ARE real.

[House P]

But as in all shows/movies, a small number of people can take out lots of their foes before succumbing. So we'll generously in the zombie's favor give the living a 1 to 5 success rate. Meaning that you take out 5 zombies before you yourself get bitten. But then, not all of those bitten folks run away, some go down John and Bob style.
The numbers don't work out for long haul horde building as we see so often.

I finally gave up on the Walking Dead sometime during Season 10 in part because I could no longer manage to suspend my disbelief (and the repetitive nature of the show began to make it seem pointless to me).

As to your point in bold above, I always wondered what the military was doing in the early stages of the apocalypse. Certainly, the military has the capability of taking out vast numbers of zombies. Has any zombie universe explained why the military was so ineffective?

A few months down the road after stage one, there just aren't enough living people left to support them. And those that ARE living, at least in the shows, are still alive because they've made a habit of braining a few dozen dead every week.

If the living could take out a couple dozen zombies per week, it wouldn’t take long for the zombie threat to diminish greatly. Twenty zombies per week translates to ~1000 zombies per year per survivor. Assuming 50,000 survivors in the US, that’s 50 million fewer zombies per year. A couple years of this and there wouldn’t be too many zombies left.

I also never understood why survivors didn’t flock to islands.

[bundabergdevil]

Where did zombies come from, where did they go?
Where did they come from, Cotton-Eye Brraaaiiiiiinnnnssss?

[OldPhiKap]

Where did zombies come from, where did they go?
Where did they come from, Cotton-Eye Brraaaiiiiiinnnnssss?

If you think about it, brains are really just blobs of meat with electricity running through them.

[camion]

I finally gave up on the Walking Dead sometime during Season 10 in part because I could no longer manage to suspend my disbelief (and the repetitive nature of the show began to make it seem pointless to me).

As to your point in bold above, I always wondered what the military was doing in the early stages of the apocalypse. Certainly, the military has the capability of taking out vast numbers of zombies. Has any zombie universe explained why the military was so ineffective?



If the living could take out a couple dozen zombies per week, it wouldn’t take long for the zombie threat to diminish greatly. Twenty zombies per week translates to ~1000 zombies per year per survivor. Assuming 50,000 survivors in the US, that’s 50 million fewer zombies per year. A couple years of this and there wouldn’t be too many zombies left.

I also never understood why survivors didn’t flock to islands.

I have an answer for that which I think is timely.

The Zombie plague was was a delayed reaction to a vaccine (probably RNA based). The military were all required to take the vaccine and so were some of the first to succumb.



It's really obvious isn't it, once you get on a certain bandwagon?

[CameronBornAndBred]

As to your point in bold above, I always wondered what the military was doing in the early stages of the apocalypse. Certainly, the military has the capability of taking out vast numbers of zombies. Has any zombie universe explained why the military was so ineffective?

Irony of telling Acy that this thread is not show specific enough to be spoiler worthy...well if you haven't watched Fear The Walking Dead, the first season deals with this up front.
Obviously the military doesn't win, but I think the reasons for why actually are spoiler worthy in that show, so I won't delve.
On a broad scale, though, even though they don't "win", they have an impact.

As for your other valid critiques...well The Walking Dead series and spinoffs are successful because those geniuses found a way to sell a soap opera that had zombies. The zombies are part of the story, but are never central to it, except to only to establish the setting. Once you get past episode 3, the zombies might as well be aliens or rabid raccoons. The shows are about the living, and the rabid raccoons that are inexplicably always coming out of the woods to get in to their trash cans are just fodder to continue the tale.

But this thread isn't about that. It's about the inexplicability of said raccoons.

[aimo]

I thought it all started with Worcestershire sauce in the embalming fluid.

[crimsondevil]

Agree as to the OP question. I always find myself assuming that the zombies attack but don't necessarily eat everyone they corner, or they stop eating someone once they die, or some such. It can't be an airborne virus since then the survivors would not live to fight off up-close-and-personal attacks.

As to your point in bold above, I always wondered what the military was doing in the early stages of the apocalypse. Certainly, the military has the capability of taking out vast numbers of zombies. Has any zombie universe explained why the military was so ineffective?

Yes - see World War Z - the book, not the ridiculous movie.

I also never understood why survivors didn’t flock to islands.

Also addressed in the above book. Short answer - they do, although it is not 100% as zombies can walk underwater.

[jimsumner]

The Zombies were formed in St. Albans, Hertfordshire around 1961.

They were actually a real thing.

[camion]

The Zombies were formed in St. Albans, Hertfordshire around 1961.

They were actually a real thing.

Is it to late to say I'm sorry?

Linky

[Skydog]

Also Zombie traps would seem easy to make. Just surround your property with Vietcong style traps that collapse if you don’t know where to step. Obviously bamboo stakes wouldn’t work to finish them off but there could be some kind of cage they fall into.

Plus zombies are so dumb you could easily lure them into an extinction chamber by the hundreds or thousands.

The dumbest thing you can do is set up camp right next to the woods so you don’t see them sneaking up on you. Which is exactly what TWD did in the couple seasons I watched.

(I don’t watch many zombie movies so I’m probably being naive here.)

[House P]

Irony of telling Acy that this thread is not show specific enough to be spoiler worthy...well if you haven't watched Fear The Walking Dead, the first season deals with this up front.
Obviously the military doesn't win, but I think the reasons for why actually are spoiler worthy in that show, so I won't delve.
On a broad scale, though, even though they don't "win", they have an impact.

As for your other valid critiques...well The Walking Dead series and spinoffs are successful because those geniuses found a way to sell a soap opera that had zombies. The zombies are part of the story, but are never central to it, except to only to establish the setting. Once you get past episode 3, the zombies might as well be aliens or rabid raccoons. The shows are about the living, and the rabid raccoons that are inexplicably always coming out of the woods to get in to their trash cans are just fodder to continue the tale.

But this thread isn't about that. It's about the inexplicability of said raccoons.

Agree as to the OP question. I always find myself assuming that the zombies attack but don't necessarily eat everyone they corner, or they stop eating someone once they die, or some such. It can't be an airborne virus since then the survivors would not live to fight off up-close-and-personal attacks.

Yes - see World War Z - the book, not the ridiculous movie.

Also addressed in the above book. Short answer - they do, although it is not 100% as zombies can walk underwater.

Thanks for your responses. I am mostly familiar with the Walking Dead and don't know much about World War Z or Fear the Walking Dead. In fact, the mere existence of Fear the Walking Dead is one of the things that caused me to stop watching The Walking Dead - I can't be bothered to watch two zombie shows each week to fully understand the Walking Dead universe.

Back to CBB's original question.

I always assumed that the only way the creation of millions of zombies would be possible is if nearly all of the zombies were "created" not from zombies biting humans, but as the second step of a sudden, mass near-extinction event. For example, the first step of the apocalypse might be a extraterrestrial event, military experiment gone wrong, or a fast spreading virus that killed 99.9% of the population. The next step would be for those killed to "wake up" as zombies. I haven't seen anything in the Walking Dead to suggest that this is what happened, but it seems more plausible than ending up with millions of zombies who were created by zombies biting, but not devouring, humans.

If this is the case, then the zombie population would have a hard time replenishing itself and humanity could "win" by methodically wiping out as many zombies as possible each year until zombies pose no more a threat than marauding polar bears currently pose to Artic communities.

After all we managed to nearly wipe out the entire bison population of 50-100M over the span of a couple decades using mid 1800s technology. I don't see why this couldn't be replicated against zombies (in the Walking Dead, at least)

[CameronBornAndBred]

If this is the case, then the zombie population would have a hard time replenishing itself and humanity could "win" by methodically wiping out as many zombies as possible each year until zombies pose no more a threat than marauding polar bears currently pose to Artic communities.

After all we managed to nearly wipe out the entire bison population of 50-100M over the span of a couple decades using mid 1800s technology. I don't see why this couldn't be replicated against zombies (in the Walking Dead, at least)

And that's the heart of the question. Any zombie movie series or tv show is going to have to held accountable to math. It does not work out very well in the dead's favor.


By the way, another pet peeve of mine is that zombies seem to have an odd habit of sticking around for a really long time. I never questioned that too much in The Walking Dead, but then FTWD came along. It kicked off being set in California and then Mexico, where water became literal currency. There was a scene where a living character was walking with a herd of zombies, and he was falling out, dying of thirst.

Why weren't all of the zombies, who hadn't had a drop to drink in lord knows how long, desiccated mummies leaving a cloud of zombie dust with every footstep? Even a cactus needs water now and then, and conserves what it has very well in part by not moving.

[OldPhiKap]

I think the only zombie movie I ever watched was Shawn of the Dead.


I do like Rob Zombie.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I think the only zombie movie I ever watched was Shawn of the Dead.


I do like Rob Zombie.

I love Night of the Living Dead. And for an old movie with a cheap budget (not to mention black & white), they way it's held up is beyond impressive.

They're coming to get you, Barbara!