US Soccer/2019 Gold Cup/Road to Qatar 2022

[mph]

That's more like it!

44 of the first 47 minutes were a lot of fun to watch. The US had possession with purpose and created several dangerous chances. Thankfully, this looks a lot more like the game against Jamaica than Panama.

[JasonEvans]

Dest! What a strike!!!

Must be seen to be believed... whew!

https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1448431392468217862

[Acymetric]

Boom! Now let's see if we can hang on for 25 more minutes.

[mph]

Weah! 2-1 USA!

Edit. Ruled an own goal but still very much created by Weah’s solid shot.

[mph]

Boom! Now let's see if we can hang on for 25 more minutes.

Indeed. I like the Hoppe substitution. Still gives us something going forward but he has a motor that doesn’t stop and gets back well to help on defense.

[OldPhiKap]

Indeed. I like the Hoppe substitution. Still gives us something going forward but he has a motor that doesn’t stop and gets back well to help on defense.

Agreed.

LG USA!

[JasonEvans]

Weah! 2-1 USA!

Edit. Ruled an own goal but still very much created by Weah’s solid shot.

https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1448445523640426496

Silly to call that an own goal... the keeper can barely react with a shot at that speed from that range, just because it hits the post and then the keeper... seems silly to not give Weah credit for that.

[mph]

Nice win. We left some points on the table the first 6 games but 11 points still puts us in pretty good position, even with 2 games against Mexico remaining.

[CDu]

Nice win. We left some points on the table the first 6 games but 11 points still puts us in pretty good position, even with 2 games against Mexico remaining.

Especially if the Panama/Canada score holds.

[OldPhiKap]

Nice win. We left some points on the table the first 6 games but 11 points still puts us in pretty good position, even with 2 games against Mexico remaining.

Yup. This team has work to do but it’s a fun and promising squad.

[CDu]

With last night's results (the US win and Canada's throttling of Panama), the US is guaranteed to finish the first half of CONCACAF Final Round qualifying in the top-3 (i.e., in the World Cup field). Even with a loss to Mexico, they'd be at worst tied with Panama and ahead on goal differential. That's big, because they also have arguably an advantage in the second-half schedule. Yes, they'd have to go to Mexico and Canada (Panama also has to go to Mexico), but they get Panama at home.

Hopefully the team gets healthier over the coming weeks. While Weah and Aaronson had some really nice moments this international break, I'd much rather see Pulisic and Reyna in those spots. And getting Dest healthy on the right back spot feels important.

It was great seeing McKennie back healthy and playing well. A lot of what went wrong against Panama could be attributed to the health (and thus lack of availability) of McKennie and Dest. The US completely controlled the match after the first minute against Costa Rica, with McKennie and Adams running a clinic in defensive midfield.

I also like that the remaining stretches are just two games. That will allow us to use our best guys more heavily. With 3 matches in 8 days, Berhalter had to make a choice of which matches to play his best 11. The consequences were that one match we were going to play shorthanded. The rest of qualifiers are in just 2 match increments, which should allow Berhalter the flexibility to go full throttle each time. If we have a healthier group moving forward and more access to the full lineup, that should bode well for the rest of qualifying.

We definitely gave away 3 or 4 points this round, which feels frustrating. Drawing with El Salvador and losing to Panama feel like harsh results, and we'll want to rectify that moving forward. But we are at least a bit better positioned to avoid things coming down to that last match (which is, again, away) this time around.

[Skydog]

https://twitter.com/ESPNFC/status/1448445523640426496

Silly to call that an own goal... the keeper can barely react with a shot at that speed from that range, just because it hits the post and then the keeper... seems silly to not give Weah credit for that.

This.
A big issue is that "own goal" decision guidelines are clear as mud. Also different leagues use different methods of deciding these issues. But the biggest issue is that the current zeitgeist is to apply these guidelines in a way that often unfairly penalizes both good forwards and innocent defenders.

Because of the ambiguity in guidelines own goal decisions are often disputed even among the best referees. Almost all of these disputes come from deflected shot goals. That is because in most guidelines there is often two very different criteria included, either stated directly or implied:

1. If a shot is off target but ends up in the goal because it touched a defender then it is an own goal.
2. If there was a deliberate intervention by the defending player that leads to a goal, it will be awarded as an own goal to the defender.

So what about Weah's shot? Let's look at the two criteria:

1. It was off target (hit post) and it only ended up in goal because it ricocheted off the gk's back.
2. The gk made no deliberate intervention. Well unless "standing there and getting hit by a ricocheting rocket" is a deliberate intervention.

So by criterion 1 it should not be an own goal. But by criterion #2 probably not.

The problem is that the current standard practice is to give almost all weight to #1, when it should actually be on #2.

Why is this a problem? Because there are situations in soccer games when sending a point blank rocket into the blender is absolutely the best play. It may find a gap or it may benefit from a lucky deflection - either way, goal! Good forwards recognize those situations and have the skills to get off clean, powerful blasts directed where it will create the most chaos for the defenders/gk. When those shots do go in, even off a deflection, it is the shooter (and a bit of luck) that created the goal. Often there is nothing a defender can do, just because of limits on human reaction times. (Now before the shot is taken is a different story. They may be guilty of lazy play, mental, physical, positioning errors, whatever. But poor play is poor play, not an own goal.)

If refs emphasized criterion #2 (deliberate intervention going badly astray) then poor play will be more often punished and good play rewarded. If a defender makes a deliberate intervention and that intervention causes the ball to go into his own net then yes, that is an own goal. Zardes' header in the previous game is a perfect example. Yes he was a little unlucky, but he did jump and hit the ball in the exact position to guide it into his own net.

But by emphasizing #1 your have good forwards unfairly not getting credit for goals they created. Weah created that goal - not the goalkeepers back. That lack of credit hits their pocketbooks, job security and careers. Big time. And you have defenders getting penalized when their only sin was getting hit in the wrong spot by a Ryan Nolan fast ball.

Here is an example of a different type of deflected own goal. It was scored an own goal by whoscored, consistent with the ruling on Weah's goal. But refs online argued about it and the player of course celebrated his goal on Instagram. Was this somewhat lucky/unlucky goal mostly due to the forward taking a dangerous shot that was hard to react to or due to the poor play of the defender? You decide. Goal happens about 25 seconds in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGrW...ab_channel=EFL

[gumbomoop]

I also like that the remaining stretches are just two games. That will allow us to use our best guys more heavily. With 3 matches in 8 days, Berhalter had to make a choice of which matches to play his best 11. The consequences were that one match we were going to play shorthanded. The rest of qualifiers are in just 2 match increments, which should allow Berhalter flexibility to go full throttle each time.

Friendly amendment, but which is very unfriendly to your point: All teams have 8 matches remaining, with all having but a single 2-match stretch [Nov. 12-16] and two 3-match stretches [Jan. 27-Feb. 2 and Mar. 24-30], each of which is 3 matches in 7 days. Ugh.

[CDu]

Friendly amendment, but which is very unfriendly to your point: All teams have 8 matches remaining, with all having but a single 2-match stretch [Nov. 12-16] and two 3-match stretches [Jan. 27-Feb. 2 and Mar. 24-30], each of which is 3 matches in 7 days. Ugh.

Ugh is right and thanks for the correction. Then I definitely hope our guys are healthy, because we will need that depth to get through those 2022 stretches. The midfield and attack can’t be asked to start 3 matches in 7 days.

The first 3-match stretch offers some opportunity: we host El Salvador first and then host Honduras last, with the short trip to Canada in the middle. So in the worst case we could start our second unit at home and our first team against Canada.

But the last stretch is rough: at Mexico, hosting Panama, and at Costa Rica. There are no free matches there. So we will REALLY need our full squad for that portion of the schedule.

[mph]

Ugh is right and thanks for the correction. Then I definitely hope our guys are healthy, because we will need that depth to get through those 2022 stretches. The midfield and attack can’t be asked to start 3 matches in 7 days.

Getting Pulisic and Reyna back will make the attacking/midfield rotation between games much less painful but I also disagree with the bolded. We have a very young and fit team with several players capable of averaging 200+ minutes across the 3 matches.

Tyler Adams played 83 minutes against Jamaica, 45 against Panama, and 90 against Costa Rica. He seemed fine in the last 45 of Costa Rica. Adams probably could have played more minutes against Panama, especially had he been subbed off a little earlier against Jamaica, a game we had well in hand after the 62nd minute. Ditto for Aaronson who played 68, 45, 86. Musah started in all 3 games and played 77, 46, and 78. I think the US would have been better served had Adams and Aaronson started and played alongside Musah in the first 45 against Panama.

I also believe McKennie is capable of 200+ minutes when fully healthy (which he wasn't against Panama). I think this is also true of Dest who demonstrated his value in attack against both Jamaica and Costa Rica.

Bottom line is I agree that some rotation is necessary, but I also think Berhalter overdid it against Panama, perhaps a product of overconfidence from the "B" team's performance in the Gold Cup or an overly conservative, escape-with-a-point approach to a winnable away game.

[CDu]

Getting Pulisic and Reyna back will make the attacking/midfield rotation between games much less painful but I also disagree with the bolded. We have a very young and fit team with several players capable of averaging 200+ minutes across the 3 matches.

Tyler Adams played 83 minutes against Jamaica, 45 against Panama, and 90 against Costa Rica. He seemed fine in the last 45 of Costa Rica. Adams probably could have played more minutes against Panama, especially had he been subbed off a little earlier against Jamaica, a game we had well in hand after the 62nd minute. Ditto for Aaronson who played 68, 45, 86. Musah started in all 3 games and played 77, 46, and 78. I think the US would have been better served had Adams and Aaronson started and played alongside Musah in the first 45 against Panama.

I also believe McKennie is capable of 200+ minutes when fully healthy (which he wasn't against Panama). I think this is also true of Dest who demonstrated his value in attack against both Jamaica and Costa Rica.

Bottom line is I agree that some rotation is necessary, but I also think Berhalter overdid it against Panama, perhaps a product of overconfidence from the "B" team's performance in the Gold Cup or an overly conservative, escape-with-a-point approach to a winnable away game.

No, you really shouldn’t play guys 75+ minutes for each of 3 matches in 7 days. That is a recipe for injury and/or fatigue and underperformance. Can you play guys in all 3 matches? Sure. But if Berhalter had played Aaronson and Adams from the start against Panama, he would have had to pull them early or bring them off the bench at home vs Costa Rica.

No attacking or midfield player topped 46 minutes in all 3 matches. That is about maximum usage. Berhalter didn’t make a mistake in switching the lineups against Panama. The problem was that the team didn’t have the depth to make it work. But had he played the Jamaica roster against Panama (which wasn’t possible anyway as McKennie, Robinson, and Dest were unavailable), then he would have had to make a bunch of lineup changes for Costa Rica.

That is why getting Reyna and Pulisic back is so critical. Then you can make those lineup switches and still have a competent attack in all 3 matches.

[mph]

No, you really shouldn’t play guys 75+ minutes for each of 3 matches in 7 days. That is a recipe for injury and/or fatigue and underperformance. Can you play guys in all 3 matches? Sure. But if Berhalter had played Aaronson and Adams from the start against Panama, he would have had to pull them early or bring them off the bench at home vs Costa Rica.

No attacking or midfield player topped 46 minutes in all 3 matches. That is about maximum usage. Berhalter didn’t make a mistake in switching the lineups against Panama. The problem was that the team didn’t have the depth to make it work. But had he played the Jamaica roster against Panama (which wasn’t possible anyway as McKennie, Robinson, and Dest were unavailable), then he would have had to make a bunch of lineup changes for Costa Rica.

That is why getting Reyna and Pulisic back is so critical. Then you can make those lineup switches and still have a competent attack in all 3 matches.

We agree on your final point. Hopefully in future 3-match windows we are fully healthy and don't need players to log heavy minutes. The one exception might be Adams. He is much better than any other #6 on our roster and our ability to control the midfield and stop counterattacks suffers when he's out.

As for the rest of our disagreement...

I didn't suggest 225+ minutes. I said 200+ minutes. That's 65-70 minutes a match--starter's minutes. Adams already exceeded that average. Did he look gassed to you at the end of the match against Costa Rica? In the previous window Adams played 270+ minutes. Every minute of every game. He was going strong at the end of the Honduras game. I'm certainly not suggesting he do that every 3-match window but the idea that he can't start all 3 matches is wrong.

IMO, Berhalter's first mistake was not proactively managing the starters minutes in the second half against Jamaica. Pull a couple of key midfielders/forwards when we go up 2. The second was destroying the continuity demonstrated against Jamaica by replacing all but 3 starters against Panama. Musah looked lost with an entirely new group of midfielders and forwards. Adams and Aaronson played after Panama had control of the match and after Musah was pulled. As I mentioned previously, Berhalter could have pulled Adams at minute 62 of Jamaica and started him for 65 minutes against Panama with Adams playing one fewer minute. He could have done something similar with Musah and to a lesser degree with Aaronson. With 5 substitutions, managers have more ability to manage minutes.

I'm not trying to pile on Berlhalter. I think he's done a very good job as manager, but the formation against Honduras and the starting lineup against Panama were not his finest moments.

[mph]

Bad news regarding Reyna’s hamstring injury. His recovery has been slow and he’s projected to miss the November WC qualifying window.

[CDu]

Bad news regarding Reyna’s hamstring injury. His recovery has been slow and he’s projected to miss the November WC qualifying window.

The good news is that it's only two matches (hopefully). The bad news is that one of those two matches is hosting Mexico. Really hope he's back for January.

[mph]

The good news is that it's only two matches (hopefully). The bad news is that one of those two matches is hosting Mexico. Really hope he's back for January.

Me too. It stinks we’re having to wait so long to see this team at full-strength. Adams, McKennie, Reyna, Pulisic, Aaronson, and Pepi in the midfield/attack at the same time? Yes, please.