UAP & ET - Do you believe?

[sagegrouse]

Time to bring in the experts! (there are experts?)

https://www.space.com/unidentified-a...e=notification

Larry
DevilHorse

Central thrust of the story:

The U.S. Navy recently admitted that, indeed, strangely behaving objects caught on video by jet pilots over the years are genuine head-scratchers. There are eyewitness accounts not only from pilots but from radar operators and technicians, too.

In August, the Navy established an Unidentified Aerial Phenomena (UAP) Task Force to investigate the nature and origin of these odd sightings and determine if they could potentially pose a threat to U.S. national security.

The recently observed UAPs purportedly have accelerations that range from almost 100 Gs to thousands of Gs — far higher than a human pilot could survive. There's no air disturbance visible. They don't produce sonic booms. These and other oddities have captured the attention of "I told you so, they're here" UFO believers.

But there's also a rising call for this phenomenon to be studied scientifically — even using satellites to be on the lookout for possible future UAP events.

[camion]

Time to bring in the experts! (there are experts?)

https://www.space.com/unidentified-a...e=notification

Larry
DevilHorse

UAP?

Just what we need, another TLA.

[jimsumner]

The money quote, IMO.

"There's a need for the scientific study of UAPs and a requirement to assemble reliable evidence, something that could not be so easily ignored by science, Ailleris told Space.com.

It is necessary to bring scientists objective and high-quality data"

Note the implied absence of scientific study, reliable evidence and objective and high-quality data.

[DevilHorse]

The money quote, IMO.

"There's a need for the scientific study of UAPs and a requirement to assemble reliable evidence, something that could not be so easily ignored by science, Ailleris told Space.com.

It is necessary to bring scientists objective and high-quality data"

Note the implied absence of scientific study, reliable evidence and objective and high-quality data.

Of course, there's the rub. Where is high-quality data to come from?

• I don't think there is an experiment to be done here.
• It is not likely that a UFO/UAP will be captured (there wouldn't be a "U" at that point would there); (someone check Area 54).
• Film sent in from impartial observers are possible candidates to be doctored, unless there are many "carcams", like the Cherlyabinsk Meteor.

The best chance, I'd surmise, is recording instruments set up to record something and inadvertently observes a UFO/UAP. Perhaps not optimal, but that's what we have so far anyway.

Passive (radar activated) observational devices that are set up to watch the heaven are more likely to catch birds and terrestrial aircraft. One observation is good, but a second observation of the same event affords binocular views (triangulation for true distance/speed measurements).

Other, non-optical wavelength observations might also be of interest to go along with these (I found the "no sonic booms statement quite confusing and interesting, assuming they could tell how far the observed UPO was). What frequencies of probes could an Alien spacecraft emit that we could sense? (Radar, Infra-Red, Gamma Rays, Tachyons???). Of course, doing this over a huge area and a large swath of time, would take money and time to analyze for the possible minutiae that the undertaking would deserve.

Larry
DevilHorse

[jimsumner]

Of course, there's the rub. Where is high-quality data to come from?

• I don't think there is an experiment to be done here.
• It is not likely that a UFO/UAP will be captured (there wouldn't be a "U" at that point would there); (someone check Area 54).
• Film sent in from impartial observers are possible candidates to be doctored, unless there are many "carcams", like the Cherlyabinsk Meteor.

The best chance, I'd surmise, is recording instruments set up to record something and inadvertently observes a UFO/UAP. Perhaps not optimal, but that's what we have so far anyway.

Passive (radar activated) observational devices that are set up to watch the heaven are more likely to catch birds and terrestrial aircraft. One observation is good, but a second observation of the same event affords binocular views (triangulation for true distance/speed measurements).

Other, non-optical wavelength observations might also be of interest to go along with these (I found the "no sonic booms statement quite confusing and interesting, assuming they could tell how far the observed UPO was). What frequencies of probes could an Alien spacecraft emit that we could sense? (Radar, Infra-Red, Gamma Rays, Tachyons???). Of course, doing this over a huge area and a large swath of time, would take money and time to analyze for the possible minutiae that the undertaking would deserve.

Larry
DevilHorse

If we really thought this was a national security threat why wouldn't we put into orbit as many satellites as deemed necessary and devote them full-time to looking for UFO/UAPs?

[DevilHorse]

If we really thought this was a national security threat why wouldn't we put into orbit as many satellites as deemed necessary and devote them full-time to looking for UFO/UAPs?

I think there is a shade of difference between it being a national security threat and determining IF it was a national security threat (like it says in the article). A big difference in investment too. Theoretically, other than OUR recent maturity in technology is the only reason to think there is something new about 'visitors' being a security threat. As mentioned much earlier in the thread, it would be an amazing coincidence if aliens just reached earth about the same time we became space/nuclear/radio-wave capable. Vegans just aren't that curious.

Larry
DevilHorse

[sagegrouse]

If we really thought this was a national security threat why wouldn't we put into orbit as many satellites as deemed necessary and devote them full-time to looking for UFO/UAPs?

I think there is a shade of difference between it being a national security threat and determining IF it was a national security threat (like it says in the article). A big difference in investment too. Theoretically, other than OUR recent maturity in technology is the only reason to think there is something new about 'visitors' being a security threat. As mentioned much earlier in the thread, it would be an amazing coincidence if aliens just reached earth about the same time we became space/nuclear/radio-wave capable. Vegans just aren't that curious.

Larry
DevilHorse

If it WERE a national security threat, we would be acting and seeking to do so in concert with other nations and international organizations. I don't claim to be current, but I have heard 1,000 times as much talk about defending the Earth against asteroids than against extraterrestrial civilizations.

[OldPhiKap]

If it WERE a national security threat, we would be acting and seeking to do so in concert with other nations and international organizations. I don't claim to be current, but I have heard 1,000 times as much talk about defending the Earth against asteroids than against extraterrestrial civilizations.

Why do you think we have the Space Force? Hmm???

[Devilwin]

The show" Paranormal Caught On Camera" has some interesting footage.

[camion]

The show" Paranormal Caught On Camera" has some interesting footage.

Did "Finding Bigfoot" ever find Bigfoot?


Asking for a friend with large hands.

[OldPhiKap]

Did "Finding Bigfoot" ever find Bigfoot?


Asking for a friend with large hands.

Did "Treasure of Oak Island" find the treasure yet?

[bundabergdevil]

Did "Treasure of Oak Island" find the treasure yet?

I’m pretty sure Nemo became sushi.

[OldPhiKap]

Did anyone really ever keep up with the Kardashians?

I agree with someone above, that it would seem difficult for something to enter or leave Earth's atmosphere without being detected by a satellite. Especially on a repeated basis. But I am willing to admit that I may be seeking a certitude of fact that is not obtainable here.

[mkirsh]

Did anyone really ever keep up with the Kardashians?

I agree with someone above, that it would seem difficult for something to enter or leave Earth's atmosphere without being detected by a satellite. Especially on a repeated basis. But I am willing to admit that I may be seeking a certitude of fact that is not obtainable here.

Are there satellites that purposely scan for these UAPs? The linked article seemed to imply that there were not. If that is the case, it’s possible that satellites purpose built for other tasks (communications, weather, gps, etc) might not catch incursions of craft they don’t know how to look for.

[chris13]

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/harry...090047705.html

[whereinthehellami]

Time to bring in the experts! (there are experts?)

https://www.space.com/unidentified-a...e=notification

Larry
DevilHorse

On the surface this article seems interesting and cool. The problem with this article is its implications that there is now something interesting going on with regards to UFO and worth investigating. The 'Tic Tac' UFO was in 2004 and the 'Gimbal' and 'Go Fast' UFOs were in 2015. Credible and interesting ET UFO cases go back to Roswell in 1947. Talk about late to the party. The scientists and military have now figured out that maybe there are some interesting things going on that maybe should be investigated and explained. Here are some military projects from the past that were founded with the guise of using science to investigate the UFO phenomenon.

In 1947 the United States Air Force created Project Sign to collect, evaluate, and distribute within the government all information relating to UFO sightings, on the premise that they might represent a national security concern. At the time there was a growing uneasiness with citizens after Roswell and other UFO sightings in 1947. And it worked as the USAF quickly said there was nothing to worry about. Some of Project Sign's personnel, including director Robert Sneider, favored the extraterrestrial hypothesis as the best explanation for UFO reports. They prepared the 'Estimate of the Situation' arguing their case. This hypothesis was ultimately rejected by high-ranking officers, and Project Sign was dissolved and replaced by Project Grudge.

Project Grudge was created by the USAF in 1949. According to Air Force Captain Edward J. Ruppelt wrote, "In doing this, standard intelligence procedures would be used. This normally means an unbiased evaluation of intelligence data. But it doesn't take a great deal of study of the old UFO files to see that standard intelligence procedures were not being followed by Project Grudge. Everything was being evaluated on the premise that UFOs couldn't exist. No matter what you see or hear, don't believe it." In his 1956 book, Edward J. Ruppelt would describe Grudge as the "Dark Ages" of USAF UFO investigation. Grudge’s personnel were in fact conducting little or no investigation, while simultaneously relating that all UFO reports were being thoroughly reviewed. Ruppelt additionally reported that the word "Grudge" was chosen deliberately by the anti-saucer elements in the Air Force.

Project Blue Book was created in 1952 (ended in 1970) by the USAF To determine if UFOs were a threat to national security, and to scientifically analyze UFO-related data. The only problem being that Project Blue Book had one consistent scientific consultant, astronomer Dr. J. Allen Hynek. In 1968, Hynek wrote: “The staff of Blue Book, both in numbers and in scientific training, is grossly inadequate … there is virtually no scientific dialogue between Blue Book and the outside scientific world … The statistical methods employed by Blue Book are nothing less than a travesty”. Hynek held Quintanilla (head of Project Blue Book at that time) in particularly low regard, saying, “Quintanilla’s method was simple: disregard any evidence that was counter to his hypothesis.”

Between 2007 and 2012, the U.S. government spent $22 million on a new UFO study called the “Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program.” AATIP was headed by Luis Elizondo. Elizondo resigned from the Pentagon in October 2017 to protest government secrecy and opposition to the investigation, stating in a resignation letter to US Defense Secretary James Mattis that the program was not being taken seriously. Elizondo, said on December 19, 2017, that he believed there was "very compelling evidence we may not be alone."

Keep in mid that AATIP was founded after Commander Fravor saw the Tic Tac aboard the USS Nitmitz in 2004. In his podcasts Fravor has recounted how his higher ups never talked to him about his sighting. I don't know how to reconcile that. But that is a huge part of the problem.

I'm sensing a pattern here. But hey maybe the military and government really are interested this time. I think maybe it is getting harder for them to muddy the waters with bad science and control the narrative about UFOs.

There have been some scientists that have dedicated their lives into the investigation of UFO/ET, often ridiculed by scientists (using that term loosely) and fighting government officials the whole way. Stan Friedman was probably the most prominent. More on him later.

[sagegrouse]

On the surface this article seems interesting and cool. The problem with this article is its implications that there is now something interesting going on with regards to UFO and worth investigating. The 'Tic Tac' UFO was in 2004 and the 'Gimbal' and 'Go Fast' UFOs were in 2015. Credible and interesting ET UFO cases go back to Roswell in 1947. Talk about late to the party. The scientists and military have now figured out that maybe there are some interesting things going on that maybe should be investigated and explained. Here are some military projects from the past that were founded with the guise of using science to investigate the UFO phenomenon.

In 1947 the United States Air Force created Project Sign to collect, evaluate, and distribute within the government all information relating to UFO sightings, on the premise that they might represent a national security concern. At the time there was a growing uneasiness with citizens after Roswell and other UFO sightings in 1947. And it worked as the USAF quickly said there was nothing to worry about. Some of Project Sign's personnel, including director Robert Sneider, favored the extraterrestrial hypothesis as the best explanation for UFO reports. They prepared the 'Estimate of the Situation' arguing their case. This hypothesis was ultimately rejected by high-ranking officers, and Project Sign was dissolved and replaced by Project Grudge.

Project Grudge was created by the USAF in 1949. According to Air Force Captain Edward J. Ruppelt wrote, "In doing this, standard intelligence procedures would be used. This normally means an unbiased evaluation of intelligence data. But it doesn't take a great deal of study of the old UFO files to see that standard intelligence procedures were not being followed by Project Grudge. Everything was being evaluated on the premise that UFOs couldn't exist. No matter what you see or hear, don't believe it." In his 1956 book, Edward J. Ruppelt would describe Grudge as the "Dark Ages" of USAF UFO investigation. Grudge’s personnel were in fact conducting little or no investigation, while simultaneously relating that all UFO reports were being thoroughly reviewed. Ruppelt additionally reported that the word "Grudge" was chosen deliberately by the anti-saucer elements in the Air Force.

Project Blue Book was created in 1952 (ended in 1970) by the USAF To determine if UFOs were a threat to national security, and to scientifically analyze UFO-related data. The only problem being that Project Blue Book had one consistent scientific consultant, astronomer Dr. J. Allen Hynek. In 1968, Hynek wrote: “The staff of Blue Book, both in numbers and in scientific training, is grossly inadequate … there is virtually no scientific dialogue between Blue Book and the outside scientific world … The statistical methods employed by Blue Book are nothing less than a travesty”. Hynek held Quintanilla (head of Project Blue Book at that time) in particularly low regard, saying, “Quintanilla’s method was simple: disregard any evidence that was counter to his hypothesis.”

Between 2007 and 2012, the U.S. government spent $22 million on a new UFO study called the “Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program.” AATIP was headed by Luis Elizondo. Elizondo resigned from the Pentagon in October 2017 to protest government secrecy and opposition to the investigation, stating in a resignation letter to US Defense Secretary James Mattis that the program was not being taken seriously. Elizondo, said on December 19, 2017, that he believed there was "very compelling evidence we may not be alone."

Keep in mid that AATIP was founded after Commander Fravor saw the Tic Tac aboard the USS Nitmitz in 2004. In his podcasts Fravor has recounted how his higher ups never talked to him about his sighting. I don't know how to reconcile that. But that is a huge part of the problem.

I'm sensing a pattern here. But hey maybe the military and government really are interested this time. I think maybe it is getting harder for them to muddy the waters with bad science and control the narrative about UFOs.

There have been some scientists that have dedicated their lives into the investigation of UFO/ET, often ridiculed by scientists (using that term loosely) and fighting government officials the whole way. Stan Friedman was probably the most prominent. More on him later.

Speaking for the U.S. military (totally UN-authorized, of course), it takes all threats seriously; and so does the Intelligence Community. I wouldn't assume they are 'asleep at the switch" or "late to the party."

[mkirsh]

Speaking for the U.S. military (totally UN-authorized, of course), it takes all threats seriously; and so does the Intelligence Community. I wouldn't assume they are 'asleep at the switch" or "late to the party."

I really want to be convinced of ET life, and many of the cases presented are inexplicable and curious and I appreciate the efforts of the original poster. But the latest seems to indicate that we need to believe there is either 1) a massive government cover up or 2) massive government incompetence. I think a third (and IMHO more plausible) theory is that there just isn’t that much information available.

[DevilHorse]

Are there satellites that purposely scan for these UAPs? The linked article seemed to imply that there were not. If that is the case, it’s possible that satellites purpose built for other tasks (communications, weather, gps, etc) might not catch incursions of craft they don’t know how to look for.

Of course, detectors only detect what they are built to detect.

But one would think that since the methods involved with Stealth technology, and cloaking technology research (remember this Duke nugget? https://stories.duke.edu/beyond-mate...communications) that there is a bit more of a jaundiced eye on what to look for in the way of hidden crafts these days. I imagine that one of the first things that the armed forces did when they invented the stealth technology was to come up with mechanisms to try and detect their own planes. They don't just use polaroids anymore.

Larry
DevilHorse

[bundabergdevil]

Case #1 - USS Nimitz - 'tic-tac' UFO sighting – 2004

Over the course of a week in November 2004, a radar operator on board the USS Princeton reports seeing odd and slow-moving objects flying in groups of five to ten off of San Clemente Island, west of the San Diego coast. At an elevation of 28,000 feet, moving at a speed of approximately 120 knots (about 138 miles per hour), the clusters were too high to be birds, too slow to be conventional aircraft, and were not traveling on any established flight path. At the end of the week the radio operator aboard the USS Princeton said they saw over 100 UFOs on their radar.

A F/A-18 Super Hornet from the USS Nimitz engages 40 foot white, tic-tac shaped UFO via FLIR (state of the art Infrared camera). UFO flies erratically in ways that defy the laws of physics. Going from 60,000 to 50 feet in seconds. Hovering and showing no signs of propulsion. UFO actively jams Pilot Dave Fravor’s radar.

Article with Chad Underwood, the pilot who recorded the UFO with FLIR.

To the Stars Academy – Tic Tac UFO Executive Report.

Article breaking down FLIR images.

*Podcast* Pilot David Fravor’s podcast with Joe Rogan, as he recounts the event in a two-hour interview.

*Podcast* Pilot David Fravor’s podcast with Lex Fridman, as he recounts the event in a recent (last week) four-hour interview.

I finally got around to listening to the first Pilot Fravor podcast. Very interesting and compelling listening. Clearly a UFO...ET, dunno, but well worth the listen.

Thanks for sharing!