Is It Time For Cut To Retire?

[wsb3]

I like Cut a lot. He took over a football program that did not even have a pulse. It was hard for me to believe it when Cut turned down the Tenn. job. At times, I wish for his sake he would not have. Seeing the stands so sparce with Duke fans has to be demoralizing & a killer for recruiting. My question to those that are knowledgeable with the ins & outs of Duke football, which I am not.

If Duke won 7-9 games each season & once in a while won 10.

What do you think the attendance would be?

[Acymetric]

Everyone would have been shocked in 2007 if you said we would have 10 wins in 2013. Things can certainly shift.

True, but we did feel like a program on the rise after making the Belk Bowl the year before. I would also suggest we had one of the better staffs in the conference at that time. After 5-6 years of attrition with the staff I don't see a compelling argument that either of those things are true anymore.

There was also a lot of (warranted) optimism at the time (not for 10 wins, granted, but for a good season) given the clearly talented group of guys who were returning in 2013 from the 2012 squad. Depth is probably better now, but we appear to be missing that top-end returning talent at basically every position so it is hard to get excited about next season. Maybe additional experience along the O-Line makes the difference, I suppose we'll find out in 10-12 months.

[Acymetric]

For a while there question I asked was definitely, will we win a game this year? I remind myself while reading these threads that since I matriculated at the end of the Spurrier "era" that we have witnessed 4 such seasons where the answer was no and 2 seasons where the answer was a resounding "yes, we won one!"

Does Coach Cutcliffe need to make some tweaks to his staff and the program? Sure. I hope he is open to doing that.

If people appear to be assuming that Cut won't make those changes or tweaks, that is probably because he has basically never done it in his entire coaching career. For better or worse (at this point it feels like worse) that is just how he operates. I will say that I think that had a lot to do with why he was able to assemble such a good staff early in his tenure, so it is an approach that has its merits. Unfortunately, it does not appear to be helping him bring in particularly good new staff as the other guys leave.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

True, but we did feel like a program on the rise after making the Belk Bowl the year before. I would also suggest we had one of the better staffs in the conference at that time. After 5-6 years of attrition with the staff I don't see a compelling argument that either of those things are true anymore.

There was also a lot of (warranted) optimism at the time (not for 10 wins, granted, but for a good season) given the clearly talented group of guys who were returning in 2013 from the 2012 squad. Depth is probably better now, but we appear to be missing that top-end returning talent at basically every position so it is hard to get excited about next season. Maybe additional experience along the O-Line makes the difference, I suppose we'll find out in 10-12 months.

Yes, but that's not what you said. You said ten years. That's not 2012 looking at progress.
Regardless, my point is that we were recently in a situation where you would have been pretty safe predicting ten years of futility and Cut pulled us higher than any rational fan thought possible. Why would you now assume ten years of poor results?

[Acymetric]

Yes, but that's not what you said. You said ten years. That's not 2012 looking at progress.
Regardless, my point is that we were recently in a situation where you would have been pretty safe predicting ten years of futility and Cut pulled us higher than any rational fan thought possible. Why would you now assume ten years of poor results?

Ah, yeah, fair point.

Downward vs. upward trajectory and a serious lack of faith in several of the coordinators/position coaches. Mediocre recruiting results without seeming to find those diamond-in-the-rough studs (excellent recruiting evaluation) that seemed to be our hallmark when putting together recruiting classes from 2008 up until about 2013 or 2014.

[Acymetric]

I like Cut a lot. He took over a football program that did not even have a pulse. It was hard for me to believe it when Cut turned down the Tenn. job. At times, I wish for his sake he would not have. Seeing the stands so sparce with Duke fans has to be demoralizing & a killer for recruiting. My question to those that are knowledgeable with the ins & outs of Duke football, which I am not.

If Duke won 7-9 games each season & once in a while won 10.

What do you think the attendance would be?

After several years of that? Assuming most of our losses weren't coming at home (which is the case now) I thin we would probably pull in 20-25k for OOC games and 25-30k for bigger conference games. However if we're going 7-5 but 4 of the 5 losses come at home attendance probably doesn't improve much.

[Bob Green]

If Duke won 7-9 games each season & once in a while won 10.

What do you think the attendance would be?

Slightly better than it is now but not significantly better. For Duke to fill Wallace Wade Stadium, they need a large number of casual fans to attend games. Casual fans are more interested in staying home, or going to a sports bar, to watch SEC games on TV.

Winning will not solve attendance problems.

[YmoBeThere]

...to watch SEC games on TV.

You do point out a significant issue. Outside of Clemson, is the ACC even relevant for college football? Maybe we get a additional half point for some pseudo affiliation with Notre Dame? And as many may have noticed yesterday, ND failed to sell out a home game for the first time since 1973.

When will the next round of conference realignments occur? What is the ACC planning on doing at that time?

[richardjackson199]

The way we’ve ended last season and this season is enough for me to get on board with him leaving. He’s brought the program where he could but he can’t get us to the next level.

I thoroughly enjoyed an impressive bowl win over a good Temple team to end last season.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I thoroughly enjoyed an impressive bowl win over a good Temple team to end last season.

Did you ever get by our tailgate and pick up the tickets devildeac left with me to give to you? I left them with Tnt (Tim) when we went into the game about 3:15.

[HereBeforeCoachK]

Winning will not solve attendance problems.

I find it interesting you say that, and to a degree, I certainly agree with you. It will help, but it won't solve.

[wsb3]

Winning will not solve attendance problems.

I thought that might be the case, Bob.

[devildeac]

Did you ever get by our tailgate and pick up the tickets devildeac left with me to give to you? I left them with Tnt (Tim) when we went into the game about 3:15.

Oops, my fault on that one. RJ199 attended the funeral of a co-worker at 4 PM yesterday and was unable to make the trip. I should have notified you.

[lotusland]

As a casual Gamecock fan (casual is the only sane way to support the Gamecocks) I think Cut would be welcome OC addition to the staff in Cola if he’s tired of the HC pressure and recruiting. Some imagination on offense and QB development would be a welcome change. Not that I could guarantee who’s staff he’d be on at this point.

[Duke79UNLV77]

I have a friend who has 2 sons playing high school football who are rated highly at a national level. The family legitimately cares a lot about academics. I asked about Duke, and he said they might consider it but would be concerned that Cut would retire before the kids leave. Maybe, an extension would help recruiting.

I think the next level after Cut will likely be lower than what we've seen over the recent run of bowl appearances and wins. There are fans for every school who think their team should be at the national championship contender level for every major sport. Coaches and players talk that way, which is probably necessary, but it's really not realistic. All things coaching being equal, we would be towards the bottom of the conference most years. We were pretty clearly the worst Power 5 program in the country pre-Cut.

Be careful what you wish for. Ole Miss wasn't patient when the team had a rebuilding year after Cut lost another NY Giants starting QB. They haven't had a better coach since.

[Acymetric]

I have a friend who has 2 sons playing high school football who are rated highly at a national level. The family legitimately cares a lot about academics. I asked about Duke, and he said they might consider it but would be concerned that Cut would retire before the kids leave. Maybe, an extension would help recruiting.

I think the next level after Cut will likely be lower than what we've seen over the recent run of bowl appearances and wins. There are fans for every school who think their team should be at the national championship contender level for every major sport. Coaches and players talk that way, which is probably necessary, but it's really not realistic. All things coaching being equal, we would be towards the bottom of the conference most years. We were pretty clearly the worst Power 5 program in the country pre-Cut.

Be careful what you wish for. Ole Miss wasn't patient when the team had a rebuilding year after Cut lost another NY Giants starting QB. They haven't had a better coach since.

We are at the bottom of the conference and pretty clearly the worst Power 5 program now​.

[lotusland]

We are at the bottom of the conference and pretty clearly the worst Power 5 program now​.

That would be Rutgers. Duke is also clearly better than Vandy, UMD, and Northwestern imo. Duke may be in the bottom 5 though.

[Acymetric]

That would be Rutgers. Duke is also clearly better than Vandy, UMD, and Northwestern imo. Duke may be in the bottom 5 though.

Yeah, that's fair. I should have said "one of the worst".

[HereBeforeCoachK]

That would be Rutgers. Duke is also clearly better than Vandy, UMD, and Northwestern imo. Duke may be in the bottom 5 though.

Over the season, perhaps, but the last several games...not clearly better than anyone....

[devilirium]

Slightly better than it is now but not significantly better. For Duke to fill Wallace Wade Stadium, they need a large number of casual fans to attend games. Casual fans are more interested in staying home, or going to a sports bar, to watch SEC games on TV.

Winning will not solve attendance problems.

7-9 wins a year for several years would bring 25-30 K on bigger conference games. The difference is that the fanbase would be significantly energized and engaged--not unlike the Spurrier years, Goldie's great year in '94, and the latter part of the 2013 year. Essentially, you would be on your way to having a Kidd Brewer like atmosphere in big games.