Brexit & British Politics

[OldPhiKap]

As the quintessential American...does anyone else feel like the Brits are playing Calvinball?

Attachment 9755

Brexit seems a lot like cricket. It goes on forever; no one except the British and their colonies understand it; and you just wait to read who won eventually.

[throatybeard]

In his first PM Question Time, Boris called Corbyn a "chlorinated chicken" and a "great big girl's blouse." This is the world we live in.

Finally Boris does something I can get onboard with.

[OldPhiKap]

Referendums don't have to be obeyed, do they? Sure, it would be politically difficult. Require courage. Hah, who am I kidding?

Ok, as resident expert anglophile, can you explain those to me? I may want to use those phrases in the future.

Per the urban dictionary (take it FWIW), a "big girl's blouse" is a "British slang term for a wimpy, emasculated and weak man. In particular, one who complains immoderately."

There are other definitions given which are much more -- politically incorrect.

Definitions added in 2004 and 2005, so not new.

[dudog84]

This one most certainly did not have to be followed. Unlike state level referendums here in the US, this was explicitly non binding. David Cameron could have easily said "I will take it under advisement" and ignored it completely.

When I say "referendums are an affront to representative democracy" I mean it's insulting. They have a centuries old system where people elect representatives to make decisions and those representatives turn around and say, "This massive, life altering decision is back on you, buddy. Don't let the lack of facts, or manipulation or emotions or whimsy cloud your judgement." Those people were elected to represent their voters and make the tough calls. It's not like local referendums where the impact is limited. This was nationwide.

The food standards in the EU are more stringent than the US. In the US, we rinse our chicken with a chlorine wash before they are packaged. We also wash our eggs and have to refrigerate them unlike the EU. The EU doesn't allow this so we don't export a lot of chicken there. I eat lots of chicken. I haven't had an issue with it. Any US/UK trade deal would require the UK to reduce the food standards and allow things like chlorinate chicken. It's become a calling card for alignment with the EU on food and trade.

I have no idea what kid of insult a "great big girl's blouse" is. I think he just couldn't come up with anything on the spot.

First, thanks for the definitions and I agree with your 2nd paragraph.

But we've had several referendums pass here in Florida, they require 60% approval, and the legislature still finds a way around them. The two most recent egregious examples are that we agreed to tax ourselves (!) to buy conservation land, and the legislature won't do it. And then we voted to give non-killer/sex offender felons back their voting rights, and the legislature has thrown up all kinds of roadblocks to that as well. And yet Floridians keep on electing the same people.

[dudog84]

Per the urban dictionary (take it FWIW), a "big girl's blouse" is a "British slang term for a wimpy, emasculated and weak man. In particular, one who complains immoderately."

There are other definitions given which are much more -- politically incorrect.

Definitions added in 2004 and 2005, so not new.

So the British PM throws around a phrase that would get him an infraction on DBR?

[OldPhiKap]

So the British PM throws around a phrase that would get him an infraction on DBR?

It would seem so. Or, perhaps more appropriately, he would get wankered.

[OldPhiKap]

As usual, Jonathan Pie nails it (in a very usual NSFW way):

[Kdogg]

And for the final insult of the day to Boris, Parliament rejects the motion for a snap election. It wasn’t even close.

The bill to stop no deal also passed the second reading. It was sent to the House of Lords where Brexitters will try to delay it by any means possible. Might be a long night...or two...the Lords are bring food, drink and beddings.

[OldPhiKap]

And for the final insult of the day to Boris, Parliament rejects the motion for a snap election. It wasn’t even close.

The bill to stop no deal also passed the second reading. It was sent to the House of Lords where Brexitters will try to delay it by any means possible. Might be a long night...or two...the Lords are bring food, drink and beddings.

One Lord tweeted that he was having a Jethro Tull sleep-in and invited others to wait out the filibuster. Seriously.

[left_hook_lacey]

As usual, Jonathan Pie nails it (in a very usual NSFW way):

The voice of reason. I don't agree with everything he says, "in the video or others", but we should all be listening to him. The world has gone mad, and we're all swept up in it. Take a breath, and remember how simple and civil life was not too long ago.

[OldPhiKap]

The voice of reason. I don't agree with everything he says, "in the video or others", but we should all be listening to him. The world has gone mad, and we're all swept up in it. Take a breath, and remember how simple and civil life was not too long ago.

Meant this for the Brexit thread, sorry!

But, yup.

[crimsondevil]

That's correct on how a no confidence vote would work. There are still issues. It would remove Boris but not solve any real Brexit problems. We would be back to: deal / no deal / second referendum / back to the bargaining table / cancel Brexit etc... Also the new coalition would have to win a vote of confidence shortly after forming a new government or there will be a new general election anyway (which Labour it's very keen on right now.) And the biggest obstacle would be the new Prime Minister. The coalition would require virtually every non Tory plus all the rebel Tories plus about seventy other Tories to win. Labour still has over 200 more MPs than the next biggest party. Jeremy Corbyn, as the Labour leader, would want to be the PM even, as he claims, as a caretaker. That will happen over the dead bodies of even the Tory rebels. I can't see 70 Tories or former Tories voting to put Corbyn in Number 10. It's about as likely as Sinn Fein taking their seats. There is talk of getting a moderate Tory or Labour PM as a caretaker PM but without Corbyn's backing it's a non starter. Without the backing of the other parties Corbyn would never call for the vote. This whole thing is becoming a real life chose your own adventure book.

Is there a higher threshold for a new PM's coalition after a motion of no confidence? Otherwise, I'm not getting why so many Tories are needed - the current "rebel alliance" is a majority of parliament. So if there was a moderate caretaker they could agree on, then it could work, right? Granted, it doesn't seem like Corbyn would be interested in letting someone else play that role.

[CameronBornAndBred]

One Lord tweeted that he was having a Jethro Tull sleep-in and invited others to wait out the filibuster. Seriously.

Doesn't that belong in the heavy metal thread?

[OldPhiKap]

Doesn't that belong in the heavy metal thread?

Have I bungled in the jungle?

Sometimes, I am as thick as a brick.

[cato]

Is there a higher threshold for a new PM's coalition after a motion of no confidence? Otherwise, I'm not getting why so many Tories are needed - the current "rebel alliance" is a majority of parliament. So if there was a moderate caretaker they could agree on, then it could work, right? Granted, it doesn't seem like Corbyn would be interested in letting someone else play that role.

As I understand it, neither major party can command a majority. Labor et al are enough to keep the remaining Conservatives from running the show, but they cannot cobble together a ruling government. Or they aren’t confident they can.

Put another way, they can cobble together the votes against hard Brexit, but they cannot cobble together the votes for anything else.

[OldPhiKap]

As I understand it, neither major party can command a majority. Labor et al are enough to keep the remaining Conservatives from running the show, but they cannot cobble together a ruling government. Or they aren’t confident they can.

Put another way, they can cobble together the votes against hard Brexit, but they cannot cobble together the votes for anything else.

It seems that many Labour MPs aren’t even sure they want Jeremy Corbyn leading them!

[Kdogg]

Is there a higher threshold for a new PM's coalition after a motion of no confidence? Otherwise, I'm not getting why so many Tories are needed - the current "rebel alliance" is a majority of parliament. So if there was a moderate caretaker they could agree on, then it could work, right? Granted, it doesn't seem like Corbyn would be interested in letting someone else play that role.

No, you are right. My maths off. Was between a few last minute preps for Dorian. They would need around 12 -20, give or take, depending on non confirming members of the rebel alliance's individual members.

Late last night, the House of Lords Brexitters abandon their attempt to talk the No Deal Bill to death. It will pass by 5pm Friday giving it just enough time to become law next week.

Last but not least, Boris Johnson's Brother, Jo Johnson will resign from the government and not search reelection. Yes his brother! This is the only time I have seen a politician ANYWHERE step down to spend less time with his family. Christmas dinner will be interesting at the Johnson house. Jo was a Remainer but I think the Tory purge was the breaking point.

[alteran]

I officially live in bizarro world. This is just shenanigans. That's the problem with not having an actual written, codified constitution. Apparently anything goes.

Uhm... our constitution is written, and I wouldn’t say things are exactly going well over here right now.

The fact of the matter is, democracy requires more than documents and rules— it requires at least a minimal amount of good faith.

Something that is sorely lacking on both sides of the pond.

[OldPhiKap]

Uhm... our constitution is written, and I wouldn’t say things are exactly going well over here right now.

The fact of the matter is, democracy requires more than documents and rules— it requires at least a minimal amount of good faith.

Something that is sorely lacking on both sides of the pond.

I don’t know if Boris is acting in good faith, but at least I understand what he is trying to do. He thinks having no-deal on the table forces the EU to bend, and that leaving without a deal after three years of hand-wringing is better than purgatory. There is a goal and a strategy.

Can’t speak for our side of The Pond.

[PackMan97]

Can’t speak for our side of The Pond.

Mutually assured destruction. Working so far.