Duke Hatred Tsunami 2008 edition

[dukepsy1963]

It's bad enough to have the unbalanced ACC schedule. Now people will get even more confused because some teams will get Good Duke, some will get Crap Duke, some will get one of each and some will get two of one and none of the other.

----I hadn't thought of that...back to the drawing board....

[SDfan]

Hello Everyone. I love this forum and really enjoy the time I can spend on here reading everyone's thoughts and opinions. I have been a huge Duke fan for fifteen years now (when I started to watch a lot of college ball). I thought that some of you might enjoy some general comments and observations from a fan in one of the plains states.

First the good news. This is Big Ten Country so of course you are going to see a lot of Indiana, Michigan, Iowa, Minnesota (and so on) hats, T shirts, bumper stickers, etc. However, their is a significant amount of Duke gear that you see people wearing in shopping malls, sport bars, restaurants, schools, etc. I would say that outside of the more popular Big Ten teams, Duke is easily one of the top three or four most popular basketball teams in this region. And yes, that team with that other shade of blue would also be included in that list. But never the less, I would say that I see way more marketed Duke gear than say, Kansas gear, which is significantly closer than Duke is geographically. Whenever I run into another Duke fan, it's instant kinship. I have found Duke fans to be extremely loyal and rabid fans compared to fans of other schools - even in this area. Here's the thing...Duke is a national program and your fan base extends to all area's of the nation, which I am sure most of you are aware of already. Duke is one of the most hated programs in the nation but at the same time, they are one of the most loved. I am not saying that you could win the following arguement...but at least you could make the arguement that Duke is America's team. I mean, ESPN is basically the home of the Bludevils, which quite honestly, due to the exposure is probably one of the biggest reasons I became a fan in the first place.

Here's the bad news. Anti-Duke bias is alive and well here too. Man, do I get is at work sometimes. But, this is the first year that all the anti-Duke crap really started to get to me. Now instead of hearing sprotswriters write about how "everyone" hates Duke, they are now writing "I" hate Duke. This trend alarms me and it seems to get worse in intensity every year. I don't buy the argument that the reason for all the hate is a direct result of all the success the program has had. I don't claim to have the answer or offer an alternate reason...it's something I can't put my finger on just yet but as a sports fan in general, I have never seen a team/program the target of so much hatred (or jealously as one member put it) even when you factor in pro sprots. These are kids everyone is talking and writing about. Most of them haven't voted in a presidential election yet. The majority of them aren't able to go into a bar and buy a drink. Their college students. It's just a phenomenon to me and out of character in regards to amatuer athletics.

In a nutshell, I worry. If the trend keeps intensifying, I see this reaching some kind of boiling point where I fear there could be some sort of negative outcomes. Will recruiting be impacted? Did anyone notice how tired and haggered Coach K seemed at the end of the season? Alot of fellow Duke fans commented to me on that towards the end of the year. He didn't look like he was having much fun.

Before I end this, again, I would like to offer an outsiders outlook on next year. Sometimes when you are too close to something, for example, the intense hoops hoopla that I am sure exists in the triangle area all your round, it can make things difficult to see. I think Duke will be fine. Paulus will be fine. I think Duke wil be top tier ACC. I hope Josh stays, but if he goes I have gut feeling that Duke will still be an improved team and a tough one to beat.

Anyway, keep the threads coming. The members of this site have intelligent basketball IQ's and know the game and your team well. I enjoy being here.

Go Duke!

[Uncle Drew]

If you had been watching the CBS evening news a few years back and Dan Rather had said, "Vote Democrat, be as liberal as possible and Republicans suck", people regardless of political affiliation would be shocked the network allowed him to bluntly state his beliefs. If you were watching FOX News and an anchor said, "Hillary Clinton is a liberal lawyer unable to tell the truth and unfit to be president", they would be blasted across the nation for stating their opinion. So why is it every television station and newspaper in the state can be pro-UNC and Duke biased without receiving any retribution what so ever?
The Governor aught to try and get a law passed stating no journalism graduate from the University of Northern Carborro may work for any in state newspaper or television station. Let them go work in Ohio and try to cram tarheel dogma down the throats of Buckeye fans and see how long they last. Here in NC it's not only condoned it's expected. Regardless of proximity to Chapel Hill every reporter apparently takes it upon themselves to slant the sports news to a shade of light blue because Chapel Hill doesn't have it's own paper. I've grown used to being a second class citizen in my own state after 37 years of listening to and reading tarheel propaganda. But now it's gone national to the point where Duke and their fans are persecuted like an Al Queda member. Jay Bilas tries his best to be non-biased to the point where sometimes I think he forgot where he went to school. But Stewart "Boo-Yow" Scott extols Carolina blue doing the highlights for college basketball, the NBA and even the NFL! Brad Daugherty was probably the most non biased announcer they had doing games on ESPN, and now they have him doing NASCAR! UNC and Maryland fans have spread their anti-Duke poison across the nation to where it has brainwashed the masses who don't know UNC is the true evil empire every school should be fighting against.
Granted all the winning over the years has gotten under the skin of opposing fans from California to Connecticut, and no one wants to see their team lose to the same team time after time. And regardless of whether it's reverse racism because Duke has a lot of white players, to the fact it cost so much to attend Duke or the SAT scores are so high; Duke is hated like no team or franchise in sports. As a Cowboy fan (yes I hate TO too.) I expect the papers in this state to be biased toward the Panthers, they are the ONLY NFL team in this state. But with four ACC schools along with ECU, ASU etc, how is it okay to show blatant favoritism for UNC, bias against Duke and disinterest in all the other teams?

[RPS]

I hate to say this, but I'm pretty sure most of the people who wear UNC stuff would not be able to find North Carolina on a map.

For some reason, I suspect that this phenomenon is as true in Charlotte as it is in Lawrence...

[throatybeard]

For some reason, I suspect that this phenomenon is as true in Charlotte as it is in Lawrence...

And that's actually not a crack on Carolina fans, or on North Carolinians, as much as it is on the collective level of knowledge about geography Americans display.

I was thinking that same crack--I'm glad someone else made it.

[Dopeshop]

I think I stumbled on most of the ways to try to handle the hatred flood ,it's just so frustrating and We're unable to influence it at all; Ignoring it and knowing that Duke's success is a main reason just hasn't been working. Each year I give some Duke T-shirts to kids in my Neighborhood ( 8-9 year ) . They wear the shirts to school and are ridiculed and taunted all day . When they ask me about why -- my answers don't seem helpful ---I'll give em a trip to Cameron which will say it all.
I think the following will help ...Lacrosse case goes away... Duke women win the title and there are 500 interviews with Lindsey Harding... Greg Doyel and his ilk are voted off the island... Anything else ?

[A-Tex Devil]

I think ND Football is the closest parallel, personally. I always root against Notre Dame, I think Ty Willingham was robbed, especially considering that Charlie Weis has performed about as well and got rewarded with a ridiculously good contract, and I think it reflects poorly on that university. I don't "love" rooting against them, but if they are on, I'll watch their game and root for anyone -- USC, Michigan, Ohio St., Texas A&M, Oklahoma, anyone -- to beat them.

I can't believe they think they are too good to join a conference (c'mon, make the big televen the big telwelve, they'd take you... now, anyway).

I can't believe a team that has accomplished so little the last 15 years in comparison to at least 8-10 other teams in college football gets its own network. I think it's stupid. Notre Dame is shoved down my throat, and I want them to lose until NBC no longer wants them and they have to join the big east in football because the big televen won't take them.

Now I don't go out of my way to hate ND, but a lot of people do. I think it kinda parallels to the Duke situation for non-Duke fans.

[Spret42]

"These are kids everyone is talking and writing about."

Beware, I am about to get on a soapbox here.

Can I make a small request? Can we as sports fans and college sports fans in particular, and I mean this across the board, please stop referring to them as "kids." They are "young men and women."

Sure, they aren't fully developed adults and they still have a ton to learn, but they just aren't kids anymore. In my view, kids play on jungle gyms at recess and trade twinkies for Ho-Ho's at lunch time. They are men and women at this point in their lives. They can vote, fight and be held legally responsible for their actions etc.

I am not sure why the "kids" thing bothers me so much. Maybe it is the former military in me. If I am wrong, please explain it to me, cause it bugs the HELL out of me.

I know it is just a word, but words set the tone.

Off soapbox.

[phaedrus]

the difference being that duke actually IS the top program in the country (judging by wins, championships, etc.) while notre dame is not even close. what would be the duke equivalent of losing 9 consecutive bowl games? losing in the 2nd round 9 years in a row?

[mgtr]

Apparently the hurdle is not quite that high. From the press, it seems that losing in the first round one year in a row is sufficient.

[A-Tex Devil]

the difference being that duke actually IS the top program in the country (judging by wins, championships, etc.) while notre dame is not even close. what would be the duke equivalent of losing 9 consecutive bowl games? losing in the 2nd round 9 years in a row?

I said I thought it was the closest parallel. Not perfect. Still, I think it has a lot more to do with overexposure and perceived snobbery as well as success.

I mean who really cares that ND has its own network or turns its nose down at joining a conference? But for some reason it ticks me off.

Who really cares that ESPN hammers the Duke-UNC rivalry down middle america's throats twice a year (it does)? Or that K is doing television commercials left and right about "relationships"? I hope if I was a neutral observer, I wouldn't care, but for some reason lots of people do.

[Bostondevil]

the lot of them.

First of all, comparisons to the New York Yankees bug me because everyone associated with the New York Yankees professionally is a New York Yankee and is accorded the benefits of publicity and security that come with that. Everyone associated with Duke University? C'mon, I don't really need to spell out this point do I? I think hatred of Duke more than race caused Nifong to act the way he did. Perhaps he doesn't hate Duke but he knew going after Duke athletes would help his cause. He probably would have preferred basketball players but lacrosse will do in a pinch, elitist sport that it is. But I digress.

Duke Doubters, as much as I like the name, I think Sheep is a better one. I encourage the DBR to create a Sheep category with links to all the Duke hate sports articles out there with a BAAA of the week to the most egregous. Whaddya think? Ridicule just might make them go away. I don't mind people hating Duke, I just want them to stop writing about it all the (expletive) time.

[mapei]

I would find it incredibly depressing to open up DBR and find - even on DBR! - featured links to hate-Duke articles. I need somewhere to go where that DOESN'T happen.

[mgtr]

Good point, mapei!

[Billy Dat]

The groundswell of Duke Hatred is due to a combination of the following factors as no one factor could cause the level of hatred that exisits:

1. Success
This is easy. No one likes a great team after they are great for too long. Look at the Patriots, who are an admirable group save for their arrogant Coach. This is a great segue to point #2...

2. Coach K
This is the most intriguing point of all, especially for members of the media. I think that all Duke fans know that K is far from perfect, nor does he try to come off that way. He curses like a sailor, browbeats refs, cries like a slang term for a female organ, and generally "puts himself out there" too much. There is also a recent wave that claims he never credits the other team after Duke loses (which is false, he ALWAYS credits the other team, the AP just never chooses to use those quotes in their wire stories). But, his reality is skewed by his endorsement image, especially the American Express ads, which paint him as a sainted "leader of men". It is the "sainted" aspect that drives everyone crazy. Many times, I hear media folks say that they like K but can't stand Duke. Let me tell you something, K IS DUKE. They are one and the same. If you hate Duke, then you have to hate K because the whole program is him. So, a lot of people hate K, whether they admit it or not (at least Carolina and Maryland fans admit it, as does Doyel, many other media folks won't).

3. Duke is as dirty as anyone else, but they get a pass
Here is where you get the "Duhon's Mom got a job/house/car from a booster", Magette/Myron Piggie stories of recruiting violations. Here's where you also get all the stuff about K running off players which leads to the high recent transfer rate. This is where you also get "Duke players take just as easy classes as any other school" stories. People hate that Duke is seen as a beacon of compliance and ethics, because they feel it's not true.

4. Duke gets all the calls
Let's run down the list of games that the refs handed to us...Maryland Final Four in 2001, Arizona title game in 2001, Xavier regional final in 2004, Clemson game this year, Florida State game last year. Then there are the games that the refs tried to give away...UConn Final Four in 2004, VCU this year and on and on. I am sure I missed dozens. The take home here is that Duke's success isn't actually earned, it's been handed to them.

5. Duke is on TV too much/The media loves Duke
Duke gets ratings, so they are on TV all the time. It is a dollars and cents decision, but people don't see it that way. Not many teams have fans who don't need to get Direct TV to watch nearly every game so I hope this doesn't stop. However, I think if that haters knew just how many Duke alums are really in high positions in sports media, they'd probably get even crazier. As it is now, you've got Sean McDonough at CBS, Eric Kirsten at ESPN, Seth Davis at CBS, Jay Bilas at ESPN, Jim Spanarkle, G Man and on and on. Of course, then there is Dick Vitale who really is the catalyst for the whole thing. The problem is that I read dozens of negative articles in the past month written by the media about how the media loves Duke. Aside from Dick Vitale, who in the media loves Duke? If there out there, I haven't seen them lately.

6. Duke students and players are arrogant/annoying
This really started with Laettner (maybe it really started with Heyman and took a few decades off. It then continued with Wojo then really Redick and sort of continued with McRoberts. I don't know what to say about that except people really seem to hate Duke's white players. The 1999 team was, in my opinion, as good as any Duke team we've ever seen and almost every player was black. We didn't seem quite so hated then, but that's a whole other thread for someone to tackle. Now, we've gotten WHITE again and the hate is back full force. Interesting. As for the students, the crude and CRAZY 1980s Cameron Crazies were probably the most hateable considering their material, yet they were admired and respected. Now, the current incarnation which is much nerdier and derivative is really hated, largely because the national media feels they've been handed a title (best fans) that they haven't earned.

7. Duke is over-rated
Finally, people think Duke never lives up to the hype they are given, the media which supposedly loves them. Duke is always ranked too high, and fails to live up to expectations.

Blah blah blah. That cheerleader who was crying needs to adopt a new attitude. So people hate Duke/hate us. SO WHAT! We know who we are. Would it be better to be UConn, who misses the NCAAs and warrants barely a mention? Negative press is better than no press. Let them hate, it means we're still the biggest story on the block. Believe that.

[Bostondevil]

But DBR already does link to articles about hating Duke. All the time. If we put them all in one place so the sheer numbers of them start to mean something, well, . . . , I don't know why but I think the shame of being just like every other sports columnist out there might make folks look for a different topic.

Wait, that's probably giving the sheep too much credit.

[mgtr]

Billy Dat-

Nice job of analysis.

[RelativeWays]

But DBR already does link to articles about hating Duke. All the time. If we put them all in one place so the sheer numbers of them start to mean something, well, . . . , I don't know why but I think the shame of being just like every other sports columnist out there might make folks look for a different topic.

Wait, that's probably giving the sheep too much credit.

Why link when you can just point to the TAD site. Its the e-Caligula for Duke haters.

[Bostondevil]

Do you think there's gender bias in Duke hating? Do men/boys/guys seem to hate us in larger numbers? Could some of it stem from these guy's girlfriends thinking Laettner/Hill/Redick or others were cute? Particularly Laettner, once one of People magazines 50 Most Beautiful.

Just a thought.

[throatybeard]

Do you think there's gender bias in Duke hating? Do men/boys/guys seem to hate us in larger numbers? Could some of it stem from these guy's girlfriends thinking Laettner/Hill/Redick or others were cute? Particularly Laettner, once one of People magazines 50 Most Beautiful.

Just a thought.

There are more male sports fans. Ergo, among sports fans, there will usually be more males among sports fans who drink grappa, sports fans who have balanced checkbooks, sports fans who put the toilet paper top-over, and sports fans who hate Duke.