Duke Hatred Tsunami 2008 edition

[bird]

Those who hate Duke are fans of teams that Duke has beaten. The more the defeats, or bigger the game, the bigger the hate. The temparature of hate goes up ten degrees for each defeat, but down only one degree each time Duke is beaten.

[throatybeard]

Those who hate Duke are fans of teams that Duke has beaten. The more the defeats, or bigger the game, the bigger the hate. The temparature of hate goes up ten degrees for each defeat, but down only one degree each time Duke is beaten.

Lisa, in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!

[dukepsy1963]

I am a Duke nut ('63); but I would like to share with you how it feels to be on the other side for a moment.

First, my first job was at UNC. I managed to live through my years there without my students "hurting" me or anything like that.... And yes, they knew I had attended Duke and joked with me about that from time to time. Actually, I really enjoyed my time there very much.
My next job was at George Mason University from which I retired in 2003.

Now...

You cannot imagine how many "fans" and old enemies/friends turned up when GMU took shots at the "big boys" last year (no matter that GMU has over 30K students and is the largest school in Virginia..and has more Nobel winners than UVa). I heard from people all over the country! Well-wishers from everywhere. It was great; especially when UNC and UCONN went down!!

I guess my point is that if you want to be "loved," try to connect yourself somehow with a future Cinderella team... Then everybody will be on your side....at least until that team starts winning over and over.

My advice... Stick with Duke!!!
Nobody calls or emails me about GMU anymore....

[TNTDevil]

I'm not saying that the Hate Duke sentiment doesn't exist but this poll surprised me...

UNC moved to 1st

Duke dropped to... 2nd

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/

[hurleyfor3]

I guess my point is that if you want to be "loved," try to connect yourself somehow with a future Cinderella team... Then everybody will be on your side....at least until that team starts winning over and over.

If I had such an ability, I'd apply it to the stock market, not something useless like college basketball.

[godukerocks]

You know, it doesn't really bother me any more. I remember a few years back when Duke lost to Uconn, I got it from everyone, teachers, students, uncles, message boards, and more. After a while, you start to enjoy it. How many teams get so much envy? We should be proud that people are like this to us...It shows that your program has gotten somewhere.

[A-Tex Devil]

So I was in Vegas last weekend during our little nadir against mid-major nobodies. I was wearing a bright blue Duke shirt during the games and only got a little ribbing, but some over the top insults that you gotta just let sliiiiiiiiide. I think my overall dissatisfaction with our performance that day overrode what some yahoo in a Villanova jersey was yelling at me.

Anyway, after the games that day, I'm playing some craps and some Pitt fans came over to play at the table. I no longer have my Duke shirt on, so I listened intently. The basic summary was, in large decibels -- "Man, I hate Duke!! It's awesome that they lost!! Now we know we're in the sweet 16!! Glad VCU got them first. Pitt rules!!", etc. etc. I finally open up with my alliegiances (we had been chatting before). We chatted some more and they basically admitted they wanted no part of us in the second round. They still "hate" Duke, always root against us, etc. etc. But maaaaaaan were they glad to miss us.

So even though we are down this year, I found it interesting that people still thought we were dangerous. I tried to explain to them that this team, this year, just doesn't have it, and <in jest> Pitt would've had nothing to worry about. The guy said -- "Doesn't matter. It's still Duke. I'd rather be up against VCU every single time."

[Duke Mom in KS]

In my high school classroom, there are a few clues that I am a Duke fan, and as I live in a small town, most of my students know my tie to Duke. Very few people in this area are Duke fans, but there do seem to be several who wear that ugly light blue stuff, and of course there are many Jayhawk fans (including me). It never fails that after a Duke loss, I hear comments. My strategy is to point out that unless we discuss each win, which of course go without notice, then I'm not interested in discussing losses.

[throatybeard]

In my high school classroom, there are a few clues that I am a Duke fan, and as I live in a small town, most of my students know my tie to Duke. Very few people in this area are Duke fans, but there do seem to be several who wear that ugly light blue stuff, and of course there are many Jayhawk fans (including me). It never fails that after a Duke loss, I hear comments. My strategy is to point out that unless we discuss each win, which of course go without notice, then I'm not interested in discussing losses.

I've noticed this thing on the web a bit: KU fans got a little less anti-Duke after Roy spurned them, in my-enemy's-enemy-is-my-friend fashion. Like basically they hate Carolina worse now. Is that the case where you're at?

[Duke Mom in KS]

I hate to say this, but I'm pretty sure most of the people who wear UNC stuff would not be able to find North Carolina on a map. I'm not sure they would be a good sampling of knowledgeable sports fans, just people who like to appear to be affiliated. In my opinion, most of the Kansas fans around here (and that's a huge number, obviously) don't feel as thrilled with UNC since Roy was re-absorbed.

[captmojo]

Envy is a strange thing but this all boils down to one thing. MISERY LOVES COMPANY! The vast majority of the hate crowd have this in common. The really stupid part of it is that it's lazy in theory.

People would rather knock the other guy down than to build themselves up to the level they perceive the top guy to be. It's much easier for the top dog to lose than for underdog to win. This is why Joel Coliseum was full of baby blues praying for a Georgetown loss last weekend.

[shangtr0n]

As someone who's also been extremely distressed in recent years by the level of scorn directed at Duke, its players, and its fans, I'm not sure I buy completely the argument that this Duke-hate phenomenon is solely rooted in the team's success. Although there are certainly other college sports teams that have been extremely successful in basketball and other sports (USC in football, Notre Dame in football, UConn in basketball, UNC in basketball, Tennessee in women's basketball, etc.), NONE of them are subjected to the feeding frenzy of vitriole reserved for Duke basketball.

In this regard, I'm speaking more about the media-driven hate than I am the casual fan at the bar/poker table. I can understand fans of other sports teams resenting Duke's success and/or cheering for the team to lose. What I can't understand is CNNSI making it the lead story of their website every time Duke loses during an 11-loss season, or ESPN.com running seemingly weekly hate pieces on Duke by its various columnists. As a recent example, Page 2 recently ran an article enumerating the ten most hatable Blue Devils:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...t&lid=tab6pos2

Without intending to stir up a controversy, I'm not convinced that there isn't a racial element at play here, with regard at least to this article. 8 of the top 10 "Most-Hated Dukies," including all of the top 4, are white (and one of the 2 black players in the top-10, Brian Davis, is nominally included because of his friendship with Laettner).

The "Honorable mention" section is even more conspicuous. Quin Snyder, Greg Paulus, Josh McRoberts,Mike Dunleavy, and Eric Meek, all of whom are white, are also singled out for derision. Meanwhile, Grant Hill, Elton Brand, Jay Williams, Corey Maggette, William Avery, Mark Alarie, Tommy Amaker, and Johnny Dawkins, out of whom only Mark Alarie is white, are spared any personal invective, as though their only crime was putting on the uniform. Of Hill, Brand, and Williams, the author even says they made it "more difficult to make fun of the team." See also the reference to Dunleavy's "severe whiteness."

This is obviously one article, but the players this article picks on are the same ones that opposing fans do. I dunno, maybe there is something about Ferry/Laettner/Hurley/Collins/Wojo/Shav/Redick that makes these guys more hatable than Dawkins/Brand/Boozer/J-Will/Maggette/Avery/Duhon. Whatever it is, it certainly isn't skill or ability.

Or maybe it's just that it's "safer" to baselessly rip on white players in this context? Might some of the Duke-hate be fueled, for whatever reason, by the fact that Duke tends to have more white standout players than other elite hoops programs?

A little fishy...?

[captmojo]

When factual arguments fail the writers will try to justify their sentiments by instilling either a class or racial element into the picture. If you know better , and you do, don't acknowledge this false pretense.

[shangtr0n]

When factual arguments fail the writers will try to justify their sentiments by instilling either a class or racial element into the picture. If you know better , and you do, don't acknowledge this false pretense.

I think you're right that writers will clutch at low-hanging fruit when they run out of legitimate arguments, and that emotional appeals to people's race-based or class-based perceptions certainly qualify as such.

What I'm not so certain about, however, is what you mean by "don't acknowledge this false pretense." ESPN.com certainly isn't coming out and saying "it's so easy to hate so many Duke players because they're white, or who happen to be white." Instead, they're attempting to cloak this with arguments about "floor slapping," "winning an NBA championship ring," being a "ringer for Emilio Estevez," or being a "prototypical awkward, nerdy Dukie." The false pretense isn't the racial bent to this, but rather the false pretense is the pathetic attempt to legitimize that bent.

In this sense, I'm not acknowledging a false racial pretense, but rather I'm labelling the behavior by what it appears to be.

If what you're saying to me is to ignore it, because the racial bent is there and not worth dignifying, then that's fine. As I said in my post, I'm not interested in stirring up a controversy. I was interested, though, in asking the crowd whether in their experiences they've also noticed a race-based pattern to which Duke players are singled out most often and most harshly for individualized derision.

[captmojo]

You are quite right in your assessment. I'm just a naive type who believes that truth will win at the end of the day.

[Lord Ash]

Clearly racist, and not the first time.

People will just HATE us next year when we can put McBob, Singler, King, Scheyer, and Paulus out there with Zoubek and Pocious as backups. That is more white players than ANY mid major team! They'll hate us if we lose, and REALLY hate us if we win!!

[dukie8]

one of my friends went to ucla and lives in la. he was watching the games last thursday at some ucla bar (ucla was playing the same time that duke was) and he said that the most bizarre event unfolded -- most of the ucla fans, who normally leave the bar after the ucla game is over, stuck around and loudly rooted against duke until duke had lost.

another one of my friends went to georgetown and lives in nyc. he also was at a bar last thursday night and said that the entire bar was rooting loudly against duke through to the bitter end. what is it with these people? do they need to get lives?

[hurleyfor3]

As I go through life, I become ever less inclined to do things just because everyone else does them. So when it comes to choosing a basketball team to root for, all this let's all root against Duke stuff is just another reason I consider myself ahead.

Some dude in a sports bar hates me because he likes it when my team loses. O insufferable agony; how will I ever live.

[dukepsy1963]

Maybe we ought to just scrap one year and gather a little empirical data.
It would require some advance planning and a bit of advertising.

What I propose is this:

1. We play two different teams, i.e. a super team and a "dogs" team. (Maybe even different coaches...K for the super team and X for the dogs team.)

2. We announce to the world that we intend to alternate teams during the year. We randomly assign the teams to games throughout the year. Both teams will play the same number of games of course.

3. We somehow get the networks to buy in on the concept and televise the games of both teams equally.

Question: Will the sports public come to "hate" Super Duke even more and actually come to "love" (and pull for) Dogs Duke? (Would need some baseline data obviously.)

Or will we simply find that the null hypothesis is supported?

You get the idea...what do you think?

(Of course we might have to devote several years to generate to get any answers of any value...)

Think of it though!! We might at long last get a handle on why so many out there pull against us!!!!!

___________
Tongue in Cheek

Go Duke!!!!!

[hurleyfor3]

It's bad enough to have the unbalanced ACC schedule. Now people will get even more confused because some teams will get Good Duke, some will get Crap Duke, some will get one of each and some will get two of one and none of the other.