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Thread: The Weights

  1. #1
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    The Weights

    In addition to all of the other problems with this year's team discussed at length on lots of threads in these boards, we were also not a physically strong team. In fact, I would say only Nelson and McRoberts were strong, and played strong. Certainly all year lots of people stated things like "give Zoubek a summer in the weight room . . ." or "see what happens when Lance can add some muscle in the off-season." Scheyer also was obviously not well-developed physically.

    This is a concern for me going forward too, especially with respect to Singler. A lot of fans seem to be really counting on him being ready to go as an impact player as a freshman. Not sure how warranted that is, but if I was involved in the program I would tell the 215 pounder to start hitting the weights NOW. What I would hate to see is have him have sort of a disappointing year due to getting pushed around a lot, and then NEXT year at this time everyone saying, "well let's see what happens after Kyle hits the weights for a summer."

    I guess my (rhetorical) question is, why don't all these guys coming out of high school hit the weights the summer BETWEEN High School and college so they can come in already having added that weight and strength rather than wait until after their freshman year? If they don't know it themselves, why wouldn't the coaches tell them, "hey, you're too skinny. This ain't gonna be HS anymore. I want you in the weight room this summer before hitting campus and then also when you get here" so they are more ready physically for the demands of the college game??

  2. #2
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    You make a valid point, and I will admit upfront that I do not have the qualifications to discuss weight training in depth, but I am comfortable in saying that there is more than one variable in regard to a Freshman's strength. In addition to hitting the weight room and actively working on increasing one's strength, you must account for the fact that these 18 year old teenagers have not finished growing. Some of the additional height, weight, muscle and strength that is needed to succeed as a college athlete will come naturally. But I am not disagreeing with you. I agree that spending time in the weight room this summer is a sound strategy.

    Bob Green
    Yokosuka, Japan

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy View Post

    I guess my (rhetorical) question is, why don't all these guys coming out of high school hit the weights the summer BETWEEN High School and college so they can come in already having added that weight and strength rather than wait until after their freshman year? If they don't know it themselves, why wouldn't the coaches tell them, "hey, you're too skinny. This ain't gonna be HS anymore. I want you in the weight room this summer before hitting campus and then also when you get here" so they are more ready physically for the demands of the college game??
    I'm not a strength coach nor a member of the Duke basketball coaching staff, but I am fairly certain that all incoming freshmen at Duke "hit the weights" the summer before their freshman year. They all come to Duke early to take classes, get acclimated to college life and to get in shape. Some 18 and 19 year olds simply haven't completed their physical maturation and all the weight lifting in the world won't add 10 pounds of muscle.

  4. #4
    My understanding is that most freshmen basketball players show up in the summer, take classes to get a jump on academics and generally work out, including weights. When school starts, the coaching staff is allowed to work individually with players (don't know exact NCAA limits) until the season starts. Some of this time is devoted to basketball instruction and some is devoted to increasing strength, flexibility, endurance etc. It takes time to build some of these youngsters up as their bodies are still changing and the coaches don't want their basketball skills and quickness affected.

    gw67

  5. #5
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    Western North Carolina

    Concerns (long, pent up, rant)

    I have had concerns regarding this aspect of Duke hoops for a few years now. I really do not see the program churning out well conditioned athletes, and I think that the offseason (and in-season) conditioning programs are to blame.

    I do not recall when the last time a player made significant strength and conditioning gains within the program. JJ and Demarcus reshaped thier bodies over summer breaks, but by all accounts they transformed themselves without any supervision or imput by the Duke staff. JJ ran his rear off over the summer, and DM hit the beach in Cali with a former SEAL (It showed. Did everyone get their tickets to his gun show?).

    More than that, look at Hansborough. He seriously jacked up after his Sr year. He looked (and played) like a different person compared to the kid we saw at the McDonald's game. Much has been made of how he showed up at UNC in the summer before his frosh year and got into fantastic shape, putting on 15-20 lean lbs. Why did not LT or BZ see a similiar explosion. With Zoubek's frame, he could easily have put on 15-20 lbs of muscle (or experienced a corresponding drop in body fat percentage) that would have let him really muscle up some people this year, as well as being more mobile. Think what LT would have played like weighing in at 220-230? Next weekend, really look at the upper and lower bodies of the players in the tourney. Many of them look like men, whereas you rarely, if ever, see that kind of definition in Duke players. This year, only DM, who worked out on his own, away from the Duke Campus, really compares.

    Historically, (from my frosh year of 97) few players stand out as being really cut in the Duke Program. Shane (who very slowly developed his body over his first 3 years), Nate Dog (son of a drill seargant, in good shape when he showed up), Taymon (workout fiend whose powerlifting sessions were legendary on campus), Corey (freak athlete whose upper body was so ridiculous from the day he showed up on campus that it was rumored that other players banned their GFs from watching the pickup games for fear that CM's upper body would give said GFs unrealistic expectations), J-Will (Showed up at 6-2, 195 lean lbs, basically cover model type shape), Boozer (showed up in good shape, slowly added mass over 2 years, but didn't really need much) and lastly, DM (worked out on his own).

    Many other players at Duke got in better shape during their careers, Brand, Sheldon, Dunleavy, etc (probably missing some, point out if you feel like it) but none of them really had that dramatic explosion in conditioning that we see in other programs. The most startling was Brand from his Fr to So year, but by his own admission that was the first time he ever lifted weights. When you take a kid with that much talent and atleticism, even a poor condtioning program will pay huge dividends. Also, remember how his body changed dramatically after the season when he worked out with a private trainer to prep for the Draft?

    My point is that these gains to not seem to be institutional. They are the result of individual work, or manna from Heavan, or slow gains. I think the Duke program is somehow flawed with regards to weights and/or conditioning.

    I believe this problem starts with Dawkins, who is the program's strength and conditioning coach. I personally believe that it is wrong to place conditioning in the hands of one of the best natural athletes that Duke has ever had in the program. I do not believe that a natural athlete can truly grasp what is necessary for a non-elite level athlete to transform his body. This is not a slam on Dawkins. I think he works hard, but I liken this to the trouble that Magic had when coaching the Lakers. He simply could not understand why a group of kids could not perform to his level of play.

    Dawk is a great person, coach, etc. I simply think being in charge of the conditioning is too much on his plate, and beyond the grasp of someone who never really needed such a program.

    Many other elite level programs have strength programs run by people who have degrees in exercise science, or who have extensive experience with physical fitness. These elite programs are run by former Special Forces guys, or Ex-College athletes who were typically buried on their college depth charts who dedicated themselves to conditioning thier bodies while in school. Few, if any, of these strength programs are overseen by someone who was the best athlete on their team from the instant they showed up on campus without ever having seen the inside of a weight room.

    Beyond the coaching, substitution patterns, innate athleticism, or mental makeup of the players, I beleive this deficiency is the key reason why we have underperformed, at least in those years where we underperformed.

    I would like to see the strength and conditioning program placed in the hands of someone who has no other responsibilities other than preparing Duke Atheletes (all programs, not just hoops, the FB team needs help also) for high level competition. If TK and KS were really challenged and pushed, TK could play at 230, KS around 230-235 and would be ready to excell at Duke from day 1. LT could hit 230, BZ at 270ish (with reduced body fat percentage, much like JJ's transformation) that would let them bang down low but still be mobile, much like other program's bigs. I remember watching the MD game and thinking that our frontline could be like that next year, only with rediculous offensive skills to match, if they had a great off-season in the weight room.

    I am by no means an expert, but I read a lot of literature on the subject (various magazines, news articles, etc). I really believe that a change for the better in strength and conditioning would allow our players to max out their potential, which I am not seeing at Duke right now.

    Also, many schools tout their conditioning program to incoming recruits. GM, who many (like me) believe is vital to Duke, is a thin kid. He is 6-10 and 195 according to the internet. He needs to spend a year at a program where he can put on 20-30 lbs without losing his mobility. If he can do that is a lock for the top 2-3 draft slots (if he isn't already, but that extra weight would help him dominate and secure lucrative endorsement deals). Duke needs to be able to provide this service for recruits. I feel that this would enable us to reel in better athletes who are looking for a school where they can tweak their already superior gifts.

    Also, conditioning is counted differently than sport specific coaching. A conditioning coach can be waiting for the kids with a program tailored to that players needs, and can spend the time with that player to implement that program without running afoul of the NCAA

    Patrick Yates
    Last edited by Patrick Yates; 03-19-2007 at 10:16 AM.

  6. #6
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    Spot on, Patrick. Our strength/conditioning is a real weakness. Two other indicators that this is an issue: 1) a team that is noticeably fatigued in games at the end of the season (we can't always blame a short bench for this problem) and 2) more than our share of foot/knee injuries (maybe just bad luck, but over time, a pattern seems to be emerging).

  7. #7

    Foot versus Knee Injuries

    The conventional wisdom around here is that foot injuries are a result of repetitive stress. Historically, Duke has had a lot more foot injuries than knee injuries. So some say that these foot injuries are a sign of high-levels of conditioning work, not the opposite.

    Without a doubt, early-season major knee injuries can be attributed to lack of conditioning. What I read indicates that unbalanced, or lack of, muscle strength can lead to knee injuries. When I saw Livingston's injury, my first thought was that lack of muscle strength played a role.

    However, I haven't read anything that indicates that lifting is an effective (or at least necessary) way to build the kind of strength that will avoid knee injuries. There are specific exercises that have been shown to reduce knee injuries (particularly ACL injuries), and I have not read about any that involve weights. I would be happy to learn about some, if they exist. Anyway, if you come early to games, you will see teams (including Duke) incorporating some of the exercises I have read about in the warmup routine.

  8. #8
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    Balance

    Prior to this year, DM spent most of his time suffering from or recovering from foot/ankle/knee/leg injury. Much of the current literature and thinking on these types of injuries seems to say that balance is key to preventing these injuries.

    DM virtually injury proofed his legs this off season by working out on a beach, probably while barefoot. The sand on the beach does is not stable, which forces tiny, stablizing muscles around joints and in the foot to engage, simply to keep a person upright. In conventional workouts on stable surfaces, these muscles are not needed, so the slowly atrophy. Some cutting edge studies are begining to indicate that modern footwear is so padded and shaped that they contribute to this atrophy. The crux of the matter is, that once these stabling muscles atrophy, the leg is more prone to injury, especially if there is a lot of stress on the joint such as jumping, landing, or making sudden cuts, all of which are hallmarks of basketball in general, and DMs game in particular.

    If these muscles are strengthed, then the serve to reinforce the bone or joint they surround. One ex-beach volleyball player was in such good shape that his back and abdominal muscles served to keep his upperbody functioning despite the fact that he had 2 undiagnosed broken vertibrae in his back (he was a workout freak). As much as we like to see huge arms, shoulders, and legs on players, it is these supporting muscles in the leg, and core muscles, where the injury proofing occurs. The "show" muscles aid in performance, but it is lesser muscles that stablize the body. These stablizing muscles, when adequately conditioned, enable faster cuts, higher jumping, and a general increase in latteral quickness, which would greatly help key players on the current or incoming squaed.

    Not every program has access to a sandy beach, but there are ways to acieve the same results. Balance boards, doing excercizes on one leg, or swiss balls are used to simulate running on a beach. Unfortunately, these types of exercises are routinely ignored prior to college, because they are very hard, cause a great deal of soreness (the good kind) initially, and people tend to look really stupid while performing these exercises prior to mastery. I have seen tv shows where high level pro athletes routinely fall down or fail at these core and balance exercise initially, and ego driven athletes tend to be loath to look stupid. Also, many high school programs cannot afford the specialized equipment necessary to implement these types of exercises, but many private trainers focus on this type of exercise. Not everyone can afford one of these however, especially scholarship athletes.

    Most elite conditioning programs utilize these methods, but I do not know if Duke does. Again, my point is that DM's body makeover happened away from Duke. This concerns me. Kids should not feel the need to leave to get in shape. That sends a bad message to recruits (if only subliminally), or it attracts recruits who do not necessary want to devote time in the weight room (not a condemnation of current players or incomming recruits. I have no idea of their work ethic).

    Patrick Yates

  9. #9
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    Feb 2007
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    Durham, NC

    Does chronological age matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Yates View Post
    ...Look at Hansborough. He seriously jacked up after his Sr year. He looked (and played) like a different person compared to the kid we saw at the McDonald's game. Much has been made of how he showed up at UNC in the summer before his frosh year and got into fantastic shape, putting on 15-20 lean lbs. Why did not LT or BZ see a similiar explosion. With Zoubek's frame, he could easily have put on 15-20 lbs of muscle...
    Patrick Yates
    Just to address this one point, for whatever reason it seems that there is frequently a huge maturation in ability to add muscle mass beginning around age 18/19. This is just a reminder to take into account kid's chronological ages, not just what class they are in. While these are more anecdotal observations, I'll simply point out that in this year's class, Zoubek and Thomas were our youngest, as was McRoberts the year before. In fact, in comparing them to Hansborough, upon matriculation to Duke they were almost 17 months younger than he was at the same point in his career.

    Related to this, I'm willing to consider points about player's strength development later in their Duke careers, particularly if they didn't suffer summer injuries, but comparisons to Hansborough are particularly unbalanced due to the age difference.

    Just as a couple of other anecdotal references regarding this, our more physically mature players in this class (though still with vast room for improvement) were Henderson and Scheyer, both of whom turned 19 early in the school year. Ellington, Wright and Lawson as well. And the two other ACC freshman who'd jumped out at me as surprisingly physically mature (such that I bothered to check their ages) were B. Costner who will be 20 in just 4 months and G. Vasquez who already turned 20 just after the new year (and is actually a couple months older than Josh McRoberts).

    I'm sure that there are anomalies as well, and if someone wants to research the trends I'd be happy to be corrected. Otherwise, please at least take this into account when saying "X could easily have put on 15-20 lbs of muscle prior to his freshman year."

    P.S. The one frightening anomaly I uncovered during this cursory search of player ages. Kevin Durant was pretty much the youngest player in this year's Freshman class. Yikes!

    FYI- my source for Date of Birth data was "www.draftexpress.com" so if the information I've quoted is incorrect, blame them, not me ;0)
    Last edited by ikiru36; 03-19-2007 at 01:14 PM. Reason: added sourcing info.

  10. #10

    Maturity, strength and quickness

    Quote Originally Posted by ikiru36 View Post
    Just to address this one point, for whatever reason it seems that there is frequently a huge maturation in ability to add muscle mass beginning around age 18/19. This is just a reminder to take into account kid's chronological ages, not just what class they are in. While these are more anecdotal observations, I'll simply point out that in this year's class, Zoubek and Thomas were our youngest, as was McRoberts the year before. In fact, in comparing them to Hansborough, upon matriculation to Duke they were almost 17 months younger than he was at the same point in his career.

    Related to this, I'm willing to consider points about player's strength development later in their Duke careers, particularly if they didn't suffer summer injuries, but comparisons to Hansborough are particularly unbalanced due to the age difference.

    Just as a couple of other anecdotal references regarding this, our more physically mature players in this class (though still with vast room for improvement) were Henderson and Scheyer, both of whom turned 19 early in the school year. Ellington, Wright and Lawson as well. And the two other ACC freshman who'd jumped out at me as surprisingly physically mature (such that I bothered to check their ages) were B. Costner who will be 20 in just 4 months and G. Vasquez who already turned 20 just after the new year (and is actually a couple months older than Josh McRoberts).

    I'm sure that there are anomalies as well, and if someone wants to research the trends I'd be happy to be corrected. Otherwise, please at least take this into account when saying "X could easily have put on 15-20 lbs of muscle prior to his freshman year."

    P.S. The one frightening anomaly I uncovered during this cursory search of player ages. Kevin Durant was pretty much the youngest player in this year's Freshman class. Yikes!

    FYI- my source for Date of Birth data was "www.draftexpress.com" so if the information I've quoted is incorrect, blame them, not me ;0)
    Your point is well taken in that we had some young freshmen this year, while Hansbrough was older when he matriculated. Strength is definitely an asset when, particularly when playing inside. No one is stronger, pound for pound than Nelson and it showed in his ability to rebound inside, despite being 6'3". Strength can come through conditioning but is also a part of the maturation process, and many of the players mature later. Dunleavy was an example of a skinny kid who still grew into his sophomore year.

    Quickness is also something the Duke team needs more of. Gaining 20 to 30 pounds is bound to slow a person down, so there is a balance between the two, particularly for guards. JJ actually lost weight and gained strength and stamina when he got serious about conditioning. Rip Hamilton of the Pistons is skinny as they come, but is quick and agile, so strength is not the be all and end all of basketball. Kevin Durant is also very skinny, but he is possibly the number one pick coming out of this class.

    So who will need to be stronger on the team. Zoubek, Scheyer, McClure, Thomas? And of the new guys, Singler and Smith? So, do we need a separate strength coach? What about a free throw shooting coach?

    My take on this is that coach K is a very smart and experienced guy and will make changes/additions to the coaching area if he thinks they are necessary.

  11. #11

    Range of motion?

    Hi,

    I workout six days a week and so am somewhat familiar with being in the gym, but am not an expert. I wonder if one of the problems for a basketball player, if s/he becomes too muscle bound is that it will limit range of motion? I remember hearing that boxers don't get too bulky, just for that reason. I seem to remember other Duke teams not being as "tired" as this team. So, I wonder if it is cardio strength (running, etc.) that the team needs to work on as a whole and upper body/lower body weight training that is more on an individual basis. Don't get me wrong, I think the team as a whole needs to hit the weights. I just would hate to see these guys go at it five days a week and lose other parts of their game because of it.

    GO DUKE!

  12. #12

    Darnit, I need to do one thing at a time...

    Hi,

    Sorry, I really meant to put this in the last post. I apologize for posting twice and spamming, so to speak, the thread. I would like to see the team also do a regime that incorporated Yoga, if they aren't already doing it. I think it would help strengthen the mind and help the body. I don't know if Coach Dawkins or K are familiar with its benefits. A really good Yoga instructor could help our players remain mentally strong throughout the game and would have lots of health benefits.

    I would like to see this for one more reason. I understand that a lot of players have problems once their careers are over. I think falling back on Yoga might be one way to help them from going into destructive practices once those days are over. I realize we don't hear a lot of Duke players falling into hard times, but even one player seems too many to me. As corny as it sounds, I care that these young people are able to lead productive and happy lives once their playing days are over.

    Namaste

    GO DUKE!

  13. #13
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    Flexibility

    Kewl,

    I am completly on board with the alternative exercise theory, but I would not like to limit it to yoga (which I got to do in L-School for 20$ semester, yowza). I would like for each player (or position) to be assessed and put into an appropriate alternative exercise. I believe that Yoga, pilates, boxing, tai chi, etc would benefit our athletes. I also think swimming and other pool workouts would help. I think that these workouts would help our athletes to tweak their fitness regimens and really achieve amazing gains.

    As far as flexibility goes, you are wrong. A little known fact is that olympic weightlifters are the second most flexible athletes in all olympic sports. The most flexible are the gymnists. Weight training, when done properly under the supervision of a trained professions, can enhance flexibility and range of motion. That is why I think a separate conditioning coach is needed. This person would institute a condtioning program, not just a weight routine. I agree, weights are a 2-4 days a week thing, depending on the time of year. I would imagine that for hoops, any conditioning program would be built around interval training, suicides, wind sprints, jump-rope, doing stadiums in Wallace Wade, etc. I am not saying we need a weights only coach. Look at DM this past summer. Much of what he did was built on moving, a lot. Cardio was a huge part of what he did, and it would be a huge part of any conditioning program. This sort of prgram evaluates kids on a continual basis, constantly adjusting routines to maximize gains. This is the sort of position that would allow for the alternative exercises we are both advocating for to be adopted and integrated.

    Sara mentioned quickness. Weight training helps with this. If you get a chance sometime, peruse various excercise magazines, mens or womens. Many of them feature articles that highlight various college conditioning programs. These conditioning programs are not limited to weights. They encompass cardio, weightlifting, flexibility, cariovascular endurance, and explosive training focused on increasing speed and quickness. Basically, the coaching staff tells the conditioning staff what the players need to be able to do or improve upon, and the conditioning staff devises a plan to make it happen. I think this is too much to handle in addition to actually coaching the team also. Conditioning programs apply science and use quantifiable markers to guage and maintain progress.

    I agree on the free throw shooting coach, but that falls under coaching that is controlled by the NCAA. That is essentially an assistant coach on the B-Ball team. The conditioning coach is employed by the athletic dept., not the hoops team per se (splitting hairs I know, but this is evidence of the powerful football lobby, they split this hair, I want to take advantage of it).

    Also, I see the evidence of other schools' conditioning programs. Nebraska, whose entire dept benefits from this, UNC, Tenn, UCLA, FLA, FSU, UGA, etc. all have separate conditioning programs. This benefits the entire athletic department and makes them competitive in many sports. I believe such a dept at Duke would push many of our already competitive non-revenue sports over the top into lasting dominance.

    A separate conditioning program would also allow the coaching staff to fully concentrate on skills instruction, game prep, chemistry building etc.

    Also, many national championship teams (not necessarily limited to b-ball) talk about chemistry being formed during off-season, team workouts. The type of workouts that our team does not seem to be doing. I do not see many (if any) negatives to such a program, and many potential posititives. Further, I believe the facilities are in place, and lack only a steady hand to create exemplary programs.

    Patrick Yates
    Last edited by Patrick Yates; 03-19-2007 at 04:28 PM.

  14. #14
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    I have no first-hand knowledge of Duke player's training regimens other than remembering an interview with JJ from last year where he said he took a Pilates class once a week to help with his flexibility, but I think most of the people in this thread are greatly under-estimating Duke's preparation in training and injury prevention for the athletic department and specifically the basketball team. I'd wager that there are full-time members of the athletic department designing workout programs for these guys.

    The Michael W. Krzyzewski Human Performance Laboratory, or K-Lab, already exists. The purpose of this lab is to maximize athletic performance and injury prevention.
    http://klab.surgery.duke.edu/
    I remember them taking video of both the the men's and women's team during games when I was an undergrad in 98 and 99 to try and determine why women have a disproportionately higher amount of ACL injuries. I am sure we all remember the anecdote about how Scheyer's VOmax tested better than Lance Armstrong's when it was repeated by ESPN during every game in Decemeber. I think the athletic capabilities of our players are being well handled.

    This link talks about how early diagnosis of a stress fracture and design of an orthotic support that allowed Daniel Ewing to keep playing a couple of years ago.
    http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:...ient=firefox-a

    I think the lack of overall strength and the "tiredness" that the team seemed to have stemmed from them simply being such a young team. Also offseason surgeries (Greg and Josh) and pre-season injuries (Greg and Gerald) likely didn't help the training regimen of several key components. For the freshmen, 3 or 4 months of pre-season training is likely not sufficient to build a strong base to last through the rigors of the entire season.

    I think the fatigue in many players, Scheyer comes to mind, was as much mental as physical. "Hitting the freshman wall" from playing a much longer and demanding season than high school occurred. Having only 9 scholarship players and only one upperclassman to lead likely affected this fatigue issue as well. Demarcus had never played a full season before and Josh and Greg were freshman complementary players last year. There was discussion in one of the tourney games yesterday about seniors being better able to pace themselves over the course of an entire game than freshmen. I think knowing how to pace yourself over an entire season is even more important.

  15. #15

    body types

    Not everyone has the body type to pack on muscle; some are destined to be skinny or fat. Some people can look at weights and get bigger. Not everyone (OK, make that no one) has Hansbrough's work ethic.

  16. #16
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    re:Hans b rough

    Quote Originally Posted by hondoheel View Post
    Not everyone has the body type to pack on muscle; some are destined to be skinny or fat. Some people can look at weights and get bigger. Not everyone (OK, make that no one) has Hansbrough's work ethic.
    No knock on Hans b rough but his being 12-18 months older than anyone in his class, as well as his having an appropriate body-type (as you aptly point out) probably have more to do with his strength than this mythical "work ethic." I have no doubt that he works hard, but there are numerous examples of players driven in this regard (whether in the gym and/or the weight room). Work ethic aside, I do give him props for his sustained ability to maintain sharp focus and intensity. This is not always recognized as a talent but it is rare and to me anyways, this is what sets him apart more than strength/muscle.

  17. #17
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    I am sure that there are plenty of people at Duke making sure that the players hit the weights and get into shape. I know that the conditioning program which K puts the players through once practice starts is supposed to be one of the most intense in the country. I also remember hearing comments about K telling committed recruits which workouts to start while they were still in HS (before the summer, when they start working out at Duke). I don't know whether someone could do a better job than Dawkins is doing, as I don't know how much Dawkins has studied, but I would guess that he is very knowledgable. Not only did he go through it on the collegiate and NBA levels, but I would guess that he makes sure to create the proper routine for each player. I think it is strange that in this thread we say that no player has ever bulked up significantly, while in another thread someone says that Horvath and Boozer bulked up too much. We have had other players who were big, such as Domzalski.

    It is also true that different body types will react differently to weightlifting. I used to work out 6 days/week, and while I never put on a ton of weight, I gained a ton of strength. I was cut, but thin. A guy like Rip doesn't look as strong, but I'm guessing that he can put up quite a bit of weight in the gym. It's just a different body type. After all, he's in ridiculously good shape overall.

  18. #18

    weights

    I think Patrick's points are pretty valid. No disrespect to Dawkins but I do not know if he is the best suited for designing the weight programs for our players. First of all, the assets Johnny Dawkins brings to this team go far beyond the physical condition of the individual players and his contributions on things such as player skill development are tremendous. But the bottom line is that there are people who are far more trained (while JD was playing in the NBA, these people were studying physical development) and schooled in optimal body development and conditioning.

    Another good point is that by "offshoring" conditioning and development, there would probably be more freedom for trainers to work with athletes over the offseason since they are not directly connected to the basktball program. Training together over the offseason would almost certainly help to build unity. Nothing can really help a team bond more than going through something enduring and tough like a difficult workout program.

    That said, Coach K strikes me as the kind of guy who looks for every competitive edge he can get so I find it surprising that he would sacrafice something as important as the physical development of our players over the fear of insulting Dawkins by hiring trainers. But I am troubled and surprised by some of our players' relative lack of physcial development.

    Finally, I will just end by stating that maybe we are undersestimating the importance of other factors. Shaun Livingston is a guy who has had the past three years or whatever to work on putting on weight yet he does not look too physically different then he did as a high school senior. You can be sure that he is working with the best trainers out there yet he still struggled to put on the muscle mass. So maybe, it really just is difficult to turn a guy like Scheyer, or LT into a beast in one summer.

  19. #19
    Johnny Dawkins is not the strength and conditioning coach- it is William Stephens.

    Bio from GoDuke.com:

    Assistant strength and conditioning coach William Stephens is in his ninth season with the Duke athletics program. Stephens is the strength and conditioning coordinator for men’s and women’s basketball.

    The 41-year-old is a native of Whiteville, N.C. A 1983 graduate of West Columbus High School in Cerro Gordo, N.C., Stephens was a Three Rivers first team All-Conference offensive lineman in 1982. He graduated from N.C. Central University in 1987 with a degree in criminal justice. Stephens worked 13 years in law enforcement before moving into athletics. He was an accomplished weightlifter, as he was a three-time State Drug-Free Powerlifting champion from 1991-93. He also held the state record in the deadlift (661 lbs.) in 1993 and won a gold medal at the World Championships for Law Enforcement in 1994.

    From 1992-95, Powerlifting USA Magazine ranked Stephens in the National Top 100 for the 242-pound weight class. A member of the National Strength and Conditioning Association, Stephens has been a certified strength and conditioning specialist (CSCS) since 1996. He also is a member of USA Weightlifting as a Certified Club Coach.

    Stephens resides in Morrisville, N.C., with his eight-year-old son, William (P.J.).

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    MKE
    Quote Originally Posted by jma4life View Post

    Finally, I will just end by stating that maybe we are undersestimating the importance of other factors. Shaun Livingston is a guy who has had the past three years or whatever to work on putting on weight yet he does not look too physically different then he did as a high school senior. You can be sure that he is working with the best trainers out there yet he still struggled to put on the muscle mass.
    nah, he plays for the clippers. the other Donald is far too cheap to pay for a strength coach.

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