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  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Duke Football Thread

    Good article from today's duke chronicle.

    The White stuff for Cutcliffe and Duke

    So when White expressed his euphoria over the situation at Duke and, in particular, his appreciation of the "vote of confidence" from the people he met here, perhaps the move from one high-profile job to another makes a bit more sense. At Notre Dame, he seemed to have little power in guiding of one the nation's most historic football programs. At Duke, White has the opportunity to play a huge role in directing the renaissance of one of the nation's most historically bad ones.
    I think football is looking up.

  2. #2
    I really cannot wait for Duke football. I know I need to temper my hopes with realism, even the JMU game could be tough, but I really want to see us take that definite step forward.

  3. #3
    Even though I am GA-GA about Duke Basketball, it was Blue Devil football in the '60's that thrilled me as a teenager. I remember the two quarterbacks, Walt Rappold and Gil Garner, splitting time 50/50 while leading Duke to the Cotton Bowl, and an upset win over Lance Alworth and Arkansas. The Devils wore all white uniforms on the road and at home, and those special helmets with the wide blue stripe (at the time, I think maybe 2-3 other college teams had them--they were unique, right up there with Michigan's).

    Scotty Glacken was an outstanding quarterback, and Jay Wilkinson an All-America calibre running back and punt returner on the good teams that followed. Mike Curtis was a bruising fullback, who went on to become an All-Pro linebacker with the Colts. Since then, there have only been flashes of success. It would be great to get some of that excitement back.

    Rumor has it that the new coaching staff has the stuff to bring the Devils back to prominence. It won't be easy .. . but BEST of LUCK to COACH CUT and the players.

    Go DUKE !

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    It was done at Wake not too long ago. Now if we can just get rid of that one road block the formidable SATs. Just kidding. I don't think the most rabid Duke football fan wants to see the "dumbing down" of Duke University like our friends are doing in Winston-Salem. I want to win on the field and keep winning in the classroom.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by RelativeWays View Post
    I really cannot wait for Duke football. I know I need to temper my hopes with realism, even the JMU game could be tough, but I really want to see us take that definite step forward.

    JMU is picked third in the country, two spots behind App State in the pre season polls, albeit a step down. They have 17 starters (lots fast and skilled) back from a team which pretty much helped AS win it all with a mistake in the playoffs. Whoever scheduled this game should be flogged. It will be a close contest and one could make a case for Duke being an underdog or this game a toss up. As it turns out, this could be the most important game of the year in order to get off to a good start in a new era. That momentum would carry into the Northwestern, Navy and Virginia home games which are teams we can play with and beat if the ball bounces right. So, I too will temper my expectations, but a good start is possible.

  6. #6
    Join Date
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    Smile Don't forget Ace Altman

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilDan View Post
    Even though I am GA-GA about Duke Basketball, it was Blue Devil football in the '60's that thrilled me as a teenager. I remember the two quarterbacks, Walt Rappold and Gil Garner, splitting time 50/50 while leading Duke to the Cotton Bowl, and an upset win over Lance Alworth and Arkansas.
    This is a distinction that only you and I care about. The starting QB was Don Altman (Called "Ace" by the announcers) and the other QB Walt Rappold, who played a lot due to the elaborate substitution rules in place at the time. Gil Garner was a supposed red-shirt, but during the excitement of a rout at Wake, he was sent into the game during garbage time, thereby losing a year of eligibility.

    FWIW, the NCAA substitution rules were so complicated that I seem to remember Roy Bostock, the current Yahoo chairman and former Fuqua dean, on the sidelines with a clipboard (clad in a Duke jersey but no pads) keeping track of the substitutions. He was demonstrably smarter than anyone on the coaching staff.

    sagegrouse
    'Memory is a tricky thing, so I count on Jim Sumner and others correcting the record I impart'

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by watzone View Post
    JMU is picked third in the country, two spots behind App State in the pre season polls, albeit a step down. They have 17 starters (lots fast and skilled) back from a team which pretty much helped AS win it all with a mistake in the playoffs. Whoever scheduled this game should be flogged. It will be a close contest and one could make a case for Duke being an underdog or this game a toss up. As it turns out, this could be the most important game of the year in order to get off to a good start in a new era. That momentum would carry into the Northwestern, Navy and Virginia home games which are teams we can play with and beat if the ball bounces right. So, I too will temper my expectations, but a good start is possible.
    Very true about James Madison. The Dukes had App. State on the ropes last year at the end of their playoff game. This will be a very good team that is looking to prove that they can play against a BCS Conference opponent. Even if it is against Duke, James Madison will be plenty motivated to pull off the victory. For the general public, this is a horrible situation for Duke. If they win, it was expected...but if they lose, it's a terrible loss. However, I'm pretty sure Coach Cut knows this will be a tough game against a good opponent and I hope he'll be able to motivate the team that this is the first step towards a new level of success.

  8. #8
    Hey Sagegrouse, thanks for the reply/info--I do now remember the name Don Altman; I first started following the football team thru Add Penfield on the Duke radio network, while a young teenager in Greensboro. "Stay with the Blue Devils" was his famous sign-off line. He used to refer to the second unit as "Garner's Raiders". I remember (?) that Penfield said Duke opted to go all-white uniforms, so that Rappold/Garner could better spot their receivers downfield.

    That was an exciting time for Duke; they had been stomped previously in the Orange Bowl by Oklahoma a couple of years earlier; when they got the Cotton Bowl bid (season of '60, game in January 1961, right?), they were decided underdogs. I remember they had an All-American at end, Tee Moorman, who was a standout in the CBowl.

    At that time, it was the most exciting game I had ever seen. Also at the top of my list during that 2-3 year period was the Clemson-LSU Sugar Bowl. LSU, with Billy Cannon and Johnny Robinson, had kicked everybody's butt, and was #1 in the country that year. Clemson had a great quarterback Harvey White, who was injured most of that year. His sub was a guy named Lowndes Shingler (sp?), who kept the Tigers in the game. If my memory serves me correctly, White entered the Bowl game late in the 2nd half, and nearly drove them the length of the field for the potential tieing score. LSU finally survived 7-0, but Clemson and the ACC got some new respect out of that game.

    Almost forgot, this is a DUKE football thread. Give me more on this era of Devils football if you will. I remember tidbits like the above, but it sounds like you were RIGHT THERE. Thanks again, DevilDan in Pacific Grove, CA

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Meeting with Marie Laveau

    I was at the 1960 Duke - Carolina game

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilDan View Post
    Hey Sagegrouse, thanks for the reply/info--I do now remember the name Don Altman; I first started following the football team thru Add Penfield on the Duke radio network, while a young teenager in Greensboro. "Stay with the Blue Devils" was his famous sign-off line. He used to refer to the second unit as "Garner's Raiders". I remember (?) that Penfield said Duke opted to go all-white uniforms, so that Rappold/Garner could better spot their receivers downfield.

    That was an exciting time for Duke; they had been stomped previously in the Orange Bowl by Oklahoma a couple of years earlier; when they got the Cotton Bowl bid (season of '60, game in January 1961, right?), they were decided underdogs. I remember they had an All-American at end, Tee Moorman, who was a standout in the CBowl.

    At that time, it was the most exciting game I had ever seen. Also at the top of my list during that 2-3 year period was the Clemson-LSU Sugar Bowl. LSU, with Billy Cannon and Johnny Robinson, had kicked everybody's butt, and was #1 in the country that year. Clemson had a great quarterback Harvey White, who was injured most of that year. His sub was a guy named Lowndes Shingler (sp?), who kept the Tigers in the game. If my memory serves me correctly, White entered the Bowl game late in the 2nd half, and nearly drove them the length of the field for the potential tieing score. LSU finally survived 7-0, but Clemson and the ACC got some new respect out of that game.

    Almost forgot, this is a DUKE football thread. Give me more on this era of Devils football if you will. I remember tidbits like the above, but it sounds like you were RIGHT THERE. Thanks again, DevilDan in Pacific Grove, CA
    I remember when the 1960 team played Carolina in Chapel Hill. My dad was a Duke grad... an undergraduate when the stadium was completed and dedicated. We lived outside Winston-Salem. Dad announced that anyone who wanted to go to the game should be in the car (a Packard Clipper, two shades of green) in five minutes... and off we went. We listened to Ad Penfield as we drove. We didn't have tickets, but got in because my dad, the school principal, used professional privilege to get us through the gate and down on the field behind the Duke bench.

    What a game!!!!! The fourth quarter was one of the most exciting I've ever watched. Duke scored and led, but Carolina scored with something like 2:54 to go. Duke took possession again and moved the ball pretty well, but time ran out before they could score again. That is my recall of how the game ended, but my memory may be inaccurate.

    Tee Moorman had a fabulous game despite the loss by one point (6-7). I also remember afterwards leaving the parking lot in a terrible traffic jam when some inebriated Carolina fans surrounded our car (which had a Duke sticker in the window), hollering and pushing the car as if they wanted to roll it with us in it. What a day!!!!!

    I also remember a small controversy which was associated with going the Cotton Bowl. Back then Duke students did not have free cuts. In fact, they were required to be in the first class following a holiday or break. The members of the marching band had a bit of a dilemma since the game was on January 2, making it impossible to return in time for the resumption of classes. The administration didn't want to waive the attendance requirement for the band members, but somehow the band was at the game. (I don't recall whether the band members had to suffer the penalty for cutting the first class after a break or if they were allowed to be at the cotton Bowl without being penalized. Maybe somebody else knows how that issue finally ended.)

  10. #10
    To Sagegrouse, Devil in the BD, and all others ... do you remember Scotty Glacken? He was another of my early Duke FB heroes. In one of the SG seasons, Dave Uible (sp?) had started at QB, and gone for 18-26 in the opener; he was injured some weeks after that, and Glacken became the new QB.

    I went to two games at (the then) Duke Stadium, one where he engineered a 4th Quarter comeback to catch and nip Clemson at the gun, 35-30; in the other one (I'm almost sure against Carolina) trailing by a score with under a minute, he ran a "quarterback draw" for about 35-yards on 3rd and 10+, before the clock ran out.

    He was a dynamic leader, and went all out. Someone told me that he passed on, fairly recently. Who can give me more info on him ?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Please update me on Mr. White's sentiments.

    I hope White takes Coach Cut's "rumored" request to the Iron Dukes to fix Wallace Wade seriously. We want him to have a long tenure in Durham. The nonsense of the city of Durham holding up renovations doesn't quite "cut" it. We have a 1920s high school type stadium with a track surrounding the field. We all want to modernize the facilities and we should listen to our new coach and get the ball rolling more than temp restrooms for women.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Meeting with Marie Laveau

    Yes, I do remember

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilDan View Post
    To Sagegrouse, Devil in the BD, and all others ... do you remember Scotty Glacken? He was another of my early Duke FB heroes. In one of the SG seasons, Dave Uible (sp?) had started at QB, and gone for 18-26 in the opener; he was injured some weeks after that, and Glacken became the new QB.

    I went to two games at (the then) Duke Stadium, one where he engineered a 4th Quarter comeback to catch and nip Clemson at the gun, 35-30; in the other one (I'm almost sure against Carolina) trailing by a score with under a minute, he ran a "quarterback draw" for about 35-yards on 3rd and 10+, before the clock ran out.

    He was a dynamic leader, and went all out. Someone told me that he passed on, fairly recently. Who can give me more info on him ?
    Yes, I remember Scotty. He was a year ahead of me. Scotty passed away in December 2007. He had been the Georgetown football coach for 23 years.

  13. #13

    yes, he should, but is he a visionary?

    Quote Originally Posted by Devilsfan View Post
    I hope White takes Coach Cut's "rumored" request to the Iron Dukes to fix Wallace Wade seriously. We want him to have a long tenure in Durham. The nonsense of the city of Durham holding up renovations doesn't quite "cut" it. We have a 1920s high school type stadium with a track surrounding the field. We all want to modernize the facilities and we should listen to our new coach and get the ball rolling more than temp restrooms for women.
    Notre Dame's emphasis on athletic department fundraising and facilities came half way into White's tenure as AD. Need for upgrades and endowing scholarships at ND was apparent from day one on the job. So, why the somewhat late start. Probably because White took his priorities from others, rather than leading the discussion (immediately) with a look to the future.

    At Duke, well, just about everthing which could be done with Wade has been discussed. So, White does not need to lead the discussion in this regard. He might take a look at the whole plan and say, "Hey, perhaps it would be better to demo Wade and just build a new stadium in its place?" And put forth his analysis regarding the costs / benefits relevant in this sort of discussion.

    I suppose forward thought process regarding Wade could involve being very motivated to accomplish these improvements now, seeing inevitable further decline without them, and could translate into motivating benefactors regarding the absolute necessity of the improvements.

    As noted before, one of the easiest ways to expand a stadium with a running track is to remove the track and lower the field and then bring seats down to the lowered field. With Wade, then the question is what do you do with the open end. When Wisconsin did this (removed the running track and lowered their field) with their horseshoe stadium in the 1950s, they left the open end open, except that where the grade was lowered they added rows of seats down to the field in the open end. Visually, the stadium remained open for the most part. I think one idea of Ted Roof was to build luxury boxes on the open end, both closing in the stadium and allowing for the transition in grades with the lowered field.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by watzone View Post
    Whoever scheduled this game should be flogged.
    Who was that?

  15. #15

    murray's teams

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilDan View Post
    Hey Sagegrouse, thanks for the reply/info--I do now remember the name Don Altman; I first started following the football team thru Add Penfield on the Duke radio network, while a young teenager in Greensboro. "Stay with the Blue Devils" was his famous sign-off line. He used to refer to the second unit as "Garner's Raiders". I remember (?) that Penfield said Duke opted to go all-white uniforms, so that Rappold/Garner could better spot their receivers downfield.

    That was an exciting time for Duke; they had been stomped previously in the Orange Bowl by Oklahoma a couple of years earlier; when they got the Cotton Bowl bid (season of '60, game in January 1961, right?), they were decided underdogs. I remember they had an All-American at end, Tee Moorman, who was a standout in the CBowl.

    At that time, it was the most exciting game I had ever seen. Also at the top of my list during that 2-3 year period was the Clemson-LSU Sugar Bowl. LSU, with Billy Cannon and Johnny Robinson, had kicked everybody's butt, and was #1 in the country that year. Clemson had a great quarterback Harvey White, who was injured most of that year. His sub was a guy named Lowndes Shingler (sp?), who kept the Tigers in the game. If my memory serves me correctly, White entered the Bowl game late in the 2nd half, and nearly drove them the length of the field for the potential tieing score. LSU finally survived 7-0, but Clemson and the ACC got some new respect out of that game.

    Almost forgot, this is a DUKE football thread. Give me more on this era of Devils football if you will. I remember tidbits like the above, but it sounds like you were RIGHT THERE. Thanks again, DevilDan in Pacific Grove, CA


    Just to embellish a couple of points here ...

    Don Altman was indeed the starting quarterback on the 1960 Duke football team. Walt Rappold was a better passer, but Altman was a great two-way player -- and you had to go both ways in that era. BTW, Altman was also a great pitcher on the baseball -- the last Duke baseball team to reach the College World Series.

    Rappold and Gil Garner were the two quarterbacls in 1961 and 1962, when Duke went 7-3 (routing Notre Dame to close the season) and 8-2 ... probably the best season in the Murray era -- they beat Cal and won at Florida, rallying from a 21-0 halftime deficit. One of the two losses was the opener at Southern Cal -- they lost 14-7 to the team that won the national championship. At the end of the season, the players voted down a bid to the Gator Bowl.

    The 1960 season was amazing. Despite an early loss at Michigan, Duke climbed into the rankings by upsetting Georgia Tech. The next week, No. 4 Navy came to Durham with Heisman Trophy favorite (and eventual winner) Joe Bellino. Duke shut him down and won 19-10. After routing Wake Forest the next week, the Cotton Bowl was on hand to offer Duke a bid when Duke played UNC ... and lost, 7-6, when a sophomore kicker named Billy Reynolds missed an extra point (the next two years, Reynolds would kick game-winning field goals in the finals seconds to beat UNC). Despite the loss, Duke got the Cotton Bowl bid ... then went out to the West Coast and with the bid locked up, played a horrible game on national TV (a rare occurance in those days), losing to Billy Kilmer and company 23-7.

    Duke was a huge underdog in the 1961 Cotton Bowl because of the way they ended the season -- not because of a poor showing in the 1958 Orange Bowl. Although Duke lost that game to Oklahoma 48-21, the Devils outgained the Sooners by a wide margin and only lost the game due to turnovers and some mistakes in the kicking game. And, remember, Murray's team had dominated Nebraska in the 1955 Orange Bowl -- 34-7.

    Murray won three straight ACC titles 1960-62. His last three Duke teams were solid, but had a bad habit of slumping at the end. That's what made the 1965 ACC title so meaningful -- after losing four straight at midseason, Duke bounced back to rout Wake Forest 40-7 and UNC 34-7. That team was robbed of the ACC title because South Carolina cheated and had to forfeit all its games (which didn't help 4-2 Duke which beat SC, but gave 3-2 Clemson and 3-2 N.C. State better conference records when the forfeit was counted).

    Great players in those days, especially Murray's stable of running backs. Jay Wilkinson made All-American, but Mark Leggett and Joel Arrington were great running backs ... Jean Berry and Art Gregory were all-American linemen ... Tee Moorman and Stan Crisson were great receivers.

    As good as Murray's teams were in the early 1960s, they were probably better in the 1950s -- go back to 1955, when Duke went to Columbus and stunned Ohio State, the defending national champion (an OSU teasm with Heisman Trophy winner Howard "Hop-a-long" Cassidy" that finished No. 5 in the nation). Duke had great series with Tennessee -- Murray winning four in a row before losing a tough one in 1956; and Navy -- the Middles were always top 10 in that era and some of the Duke-Navy games were classics.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Meeting with Marie Laveau

    Great memories!

    Quote Originally Posted by Olympic Fan View Post
    Just to embellish a couple of points here ...

    Don Altman was indeed the starting quarterback on the 1960 Duke football team. Walt Rappold was a better passer, but Altman was a great two-way player -- and you had to go both ways in that era. BTW, Altman was also a great pitcher on the baseball -- the last Duke baseball team to reach the College World Series.

    Rappold and Gil Garner were the two quarterbacls in 1961 and 1962, when Duke went 7-3 (routing Notre Dame to close the season) and 8-2 ... probably the best season in the Murray era -- they beat Cal and won at Florida, rallying from a 21-0 halftime deficit. One of the two losses was the opener at Southern Cal -- they lost 14-7 to the team that won the national championship. At the end of the season, the players voted down a bid to the Gator Bowl.

    The 1960 season was amazing. Despite an early loss at Michigan, Duke climbed into the rankings by upsetting Georgia Tech. The next week, No. 4 Navy came to Durham with Heisman Trophy favorite (and eventual winner) Joe Bellino. Duke shut him down and won 19-10. After routing Wake Forest the next week, the Cotton Bowl was on hand to offer Duke a bid when Duke played UNC ... and lost, 7-6, when a sophomore kicker named Billy Reynolds missed an extra point (the next two years, Reynolds would kick game-winning field goals in the finals seconds to beat UNC). Despite the loss, Duke got the Cotton Bowl bid ... then went out to the West Coast and with the bid locked up, played a horrible game on national TV (a rare occurance in those days), losing to Billy Kilmer and company 23-7.

    Duke was a huge underdog in the 1961 Cotton Bowl because of the way they ended the season -- not because of a poor showing in the 1958 Orange Bowl. Although Duke lost that game to Oklahoma 48-21, the Devils outgained the Sooners by a wide margin and only lost the game due to turnovers and some mistakes in the kicking game. And, remember, Murray's team had dominated Nebraska in the 1955 Orange Bowl -- 34-7.

    Murray won three straight ACC titles 1960-62. His last three Duke teams were solid, but had a bad habit of slumping at the end. That's what made the 1965 ACC title so meaningful -- after losing four straight at midseason, Duke bounced back to rout Wake Forest 40-7 and UNC 34-7. That team was robbed of the ACC title because South Carolina cheated and had to forfeit all its games (which didn't help 4-2 Duke which beat SC, but gave 3-2 Clemson and 3-2 N.C. State better conference records when the forfeit was counted).

    Great players in those days, especially Murray's stable of running backs. Jay Wilkinson made All-American, but Mark Leggett and Joel Arrington were great running backs ... Jean Berry and Art Gregory were all-American linemen ... Tee Moorman and Stan Crisson were great receivers.

    As good as Murray's teams were in the early 1960s, they were probably better in the 1950s -- go back to 1955, when Duke went to Columbus and stunned Ohio State, the defending national champion (an OSU teasm with Heisman Trophy winner Howard "Hop-a-long" Cassidy" that finished No. 5 in the nation). Duke had great series with Tennessee -- Murray winning four in a row before losing a tough one in 1956; and Navy -- the Middles were always top 10 in that era and some of the Duke-Navy games were classics.
    What makes the quarterbacks' accomplishments really stunning is that Coach Murray much preferred the ground to the air for offensive play. Those of us in the student section quickly learned if we didn't gain enough by the end of the second down, we'd punt on third.

    You've named some really great players from that era, names everybody knew.

    In contrast to today, the student section was on the home side and included some of the most favored sections, much like the student seating in Cameron. The boundaries of the student section were marked off with a chain link fence on each side of the area reserved for students. There was a little bit of space between the end of the fence and the stadium wall. As a high school student, I loved to slip through that gap and sit in the student section. Because the semester began in late September, the football games tended to occur when the weather was not so hot, though there were warm days in October. Home games were scheduled at 2P. There were Saturday classes (three or four periods, up to nearly mid day) with limited cuts for the semester. It was always a bit of a rush to grab lunch at the Union and get dressed for the game in time for your date to pick you up at your house on East, ride the free bus over to West and head to the stadium. Women tended to wear suits and dressy shoes with high heels; guys with dates tended to wear sports jackets and ties.

    During this same era, the marching band was unique in that they marched in to a double time beat, twice as fast as commonly used, almost like running except that the steps were quick, high and crisp.... always a dramatic and exciting entrance!

  17. #17
    Thanks Olympic ... appreciate the details. I was 12-13 at the time. I remember the big buildup of having NAVY come into Duke Stadium, the Middies taking a lead, and then the big 2nd half comeback. They pretty much shut down Joe Bellino ... one of the great Blue Devil wins. My mother kicked me and my radio out of the house during that one, I was screaming so much. I was going nuts in the 2nd half.

    Now I'll jump around a little ... There was a TV game against Carolina, where the game basically ended on a controversial play involving Ken Willard. I don't recollect every detail, but Duke had Willard "in the grasp", getting ready to throw him for a huge loss, then he broke free to run 40+ yards for the "go ahead score". The officials ruled the whistle had blown, and the play was dead, allowing DUKE to win. Of course the UNC fans cried foul.

    Games I remember seeing at Duke Statdium were a 20-9 loss with Georgia Tech, where they moved the ball up and down the field, but fumbled away several chances to tie or take the lead; and ,that damn Carolina game where Max Chapman kicked the game-winning field goal (41 yards?), with the ball grazing the crossbar as it went thru. (HA .. I saw it from my seat, around the 25-yard line).

    The feature I liked the most were the unique white helmets with the (really) wide blue stripe--only a couple of other college teams wore them at the time. They were right up there with the Michigan helmets as a conversation piece. Also I remember their choice to go all-white both at home and on the road, so Rappold and Garner could better spot receivers downfield. Of course in the early '60's, there were not the "inside smack stories" that are common today, but my recollection of the Rappold/Garner 2-way QB attack was that they were both very effective and the system kept everybody happy. Rappold was the guy, but "Garner's Raiders" (according to the great Ad Penfield) could move the ball too.

    It was truly a great era of DUKE football. It thrilled THIS lad every Saturday. Give me some more facts -- I'm just going on recall here. THANKS AGAIN...

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    DevilDan and others,

    A book that you might enjoy is THE BATTLE OF THE BLUES : Duke vs Carolina
    by Cromartie, Bill. I wore out one copy and had to buy another.
    "This is the best of all possible worlds."
    Dr. Pangloss - Candide

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleboy View Post
    Who was that?
    I'm assuming it was Bayou Joe?

  20. #20
    Join Date
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    Smile Coming Attractions

    Quote Originally Posted by DevilDan View Post
    It was truly a great era of DUKE football. It thrilled THIS lad every Saturday. Give me some more facts -- I'm just going on recall here. THANKS AGAIN...
    One coming attraction is the picture I have of seven Duke freshman with the stolen Navy goat inside house K or L (Kilgo was the freshman quad) in October 1960. I hope Julio and Bos will publish the week of the Navy game.

    sagegrouse

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