Women's Softball

[NYC Duke Fan]

Why doesn't Duke add women's softball?

The sport gets play in the newspaper as well as being televised on ESPN.

The only other sports that Duke does not participate in that awards a national championship are hockey, skiing, gymnastics and water polo...the latter three get very little national coverage and hockey is just not a Southern sport, but I think that women's softball would be an excellent addition to the Duke program.

The women's sports programs at Duke compete on a very high level nationally.

[weezie]

That is an excellent question. I'm surprised it has never been on the radar.

[Bluedog]

Didn't you ask this same question about a year ago?

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/...ead.php?t=1468

[burnspbesq]

Certainly, any discussion about adding softball has to start with the facilities issue. Where on the Duke campus is there room to add a softball facility? And where does the $ (just a guess on my part, but I'm thinking that a state-of-the-art facility, including locker room and offices, is going to run somewhere in the vicinity of $2 million) come from?

Don't know what the operating budget for a major-conference D1 softball progarm would look like; my guess is that it would fall somewhere between women's soccer and women's lax. That's a not inconsiderable chunk of change. Does Duke Athletics currently run enough of an operating surplus that it could cover that without additional revenue?

[hughgs]

Certainly, any discussion about adding softball has to start with the facilities issue. Where on the Duke campus is there room to add a softball facility? And where does the $ (just a guess on my part, but I'm thinking that a state-of-the-art facility, including locker room and offices, is going to run somewhere in the vicinity of $2 million) come from?

Don't know what the operating budget for a major-conference D1 softball progarm would look like; my guess is that it would fall somewhere between women's soccer and women's lax. That's a not inconsiderable chunk of change. Does Duke Athletics currently run enough of an operating surplus that it could cover that without additional revenue?

Right now the club team uses the East Campus turf field (presumably the field hockey field) for practice and a Durham field for home games. Even if you ignore the money issues, the location of a softball field looms large. A varsity softball team is not going to want to share facilities with the field hockey team. Maybe you could do some major regrading on East Campus near the field hockey stadium, but you'd have to worry about balls heading into the very busy streets in that area.

[grc5]

Why doesn't Duke add women's softball?

The sport gets play in the newspaper as well as being televised on ESPN.

The only other sports that Duke does not participate in that awards a national championship are hockey, skiing, gymnastics and water polo...the latter three get very little national coverage and hockey is just not a Southern sport, but I think that women's softball would be an excellent addition to the Duke program.

The women's sports programs at Duke compete on a very high level nationally.

We also don't have a Men's Volleyball team, a Bowling team, or a Rifle team.
Just wanted to be thorough

[jimsumner]

It was on the radar several years ago, when Duke decided to add another woman's sport. Duke went with rowing over softball, in large part because you can have multiple boats, which translates to lots of athletes, which translates to less Title IX pressure.

[hughgs]

It was on the radar several years ago, when Duke decided to add another woman's sport. Duke went with rowing over softball, in large part because you can have multiple boats, which translates to lots of athletes, which translates to less Title IX pressure.

How did the facilities issue play into the decision of crew over softball? When crew was introduced I thought it was a no-brainer, largely because a boat house doesn't require any space on campus. I would have thought the same thing about gymnastics and bowling.

[merry]

We also don't have a Men's Volleyball team, a Bowling team, or a Rifle team.
Just wanted to be thorough

And we don't have a Competitive Cheer team. Note this is not the same as our cheerleaders who would, I think, technically be called a "spirit squad" to distinguish them from a competitive cheer team.

[johnb]

One associated issue is the extent to which Duke admissions should be affected by the pursuit of athletes. It is one thing to take 2 or 3 basketball players a year who would not otherwise get accepted, but it is another to not only accept but provide scholarship money for all of the possible athletes who could fill the teams. Most student athletes function well in all phases of Duke life, but the need for high-quality players inevitably means that the admissions process is affected. This pursuit minimally affects large state schools, moderately affects mid-size private schools like Duke but has a large effect on very small, elite schools like Williams or Swarthmore, where significant prcentages of the freshman classes are varsity athletes. Another 5or 6 athletes per year for a sport that is likely to draw a very small audience may not be all that intriguing to the administration. By the way, without any actual evidence, I'd guess that crew was added because it's a tad more prestigious to participate in a sport made famous by Oxford/Cambridge/Harvard/Yale rather than a sport most widely known for its middle-aged beer-drinking participants (not that I could even begin to hit the pitches thrown by top college pitchers).

[weezie]

(not that I could even begin to hit the pitches thrown by top college pitchers).

So you think you could hit the midrange college pitchers? Those ladies are pretty darned good. And for the record, I've never played the sport outside of my backyard but those chicks bring it!

[jimsumner]

Anyone who thinks that middle-aged beer-drinking has anything to do with high-level, fast-pitch softball probably has never watched the latter.

[Bluedog]

And we don't have a Competitive Cheer team. Note this is not the same as our cheerleaders who would, I think, technically be called a "spirit squad" to distinguish them from a competitive cheer team.

Well, cheerleading (it is NOT the "spirit quad") is a VARSITY sport. So, it's considered well above softball, hockey, etc. Although they don't give out scholarships. The only reason they don't compete is because there are no male cheerleaders, which are required for those types of things. But if they appear on GoDuke.com it is considered varsity (plus I've been told by people on the team that it is considered a varsity sport): http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.db...12&SPSID=57113

This pursuit minimally affects large state schools, moderately affects mid-size private schools like Duke but has a large effect on very small, elite schools like Williams or Swarthmore, where significant prcentages of the freshman classes are varsity athletes. Another 5or 6 athletes per year for a sport that is likely to draw a very small audience may not be all that intriguing to the administration.

As it is, Duke athletes comprise 10% of the student body.

[msdukie]

The cheerleaders are a part of the athletic department and many consider them athletes. However, they are not considered one of Duke's 26 varsity sports.

[Inonehand]

That's why rowing was added. You can have large numbers and the sport carried a low budget burden at the beginning. Softball, like baseball, is a relatively expensive program to run, even without considering the stadium issue. However, Duke has been trying to build a boathouse for years now with no luck. Rowing has turned out to be more expensive than they thought, but still less expensive than softball would be...and the roster can be much bigger.

[devildeac]

Well, cheerleading (it is NOT the "spirit quad") is a VARSITY sport. So, it's considered well above softball, hockey, etc. Although they don't give out scholarships. The only reason they don't compete is because there are no male cheerleaders, which are required for those types of things. But if they appear on GoDuke.com it is considered varsity (plus I've been told by people on the team that it is considered a varsity sport): http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.db...12&SPSID=57113



As it is, Duke athletes comprise 10% of the student body.

Not sure about varsity sport. Listing/photo on GoDuke gives the impression that it is, checking out the link on duke.edu, I am not so sure. They don't compete because of an injury/paralysis in the 90's when "stunting" was "banned", NOT because there are no male cheerleaders. NCSU, unc (I think) and ECU (I think) all have women only competitve cheer squads/teams. So, male cheerleaders are NOT required to be a competition squad. I will re-visit this later this summer.

[devildeac]

The cheerleaders are a part of the athletic department and many consider them athletes. However, they are not considered one of Duke's 26 varsity sports.

This is probably true. See my prior post. I will try to get this answered in the next several weeks.

[Inonehand]

This is probably true. See my prior post. I will try to get this answered in the next several weeks.

100% true. Cheerleading is not considered a varsity sport at Duke.

[Bluedog]

Not sure about varsity sport. Listing/photo on GoDuke gives the impression that it is, checking out the link on duke.edu, I am not so sure. They don't compete because of an injury/paralysis in the 90's when "stunting" was "banned", NOT because there are no male cheerleaders. NCSU, unc (I think) and ECU (I think) all have women only competitve cheer squads/teams. So, male cheerleaders are NOT required to be a competition squad. I will re-visit this later this summer.

k, my bad on both accounts (varsity and competition). I'll admit my mistakes! A cheerleader definitely told me herself that it is considered a varsity sport, but it's definitely not listed as you all say. Carolyn Hardin, SI.com's "cheerleader of the week" even stated "I can practically guarantee that our cheerleading squad has the highest GPA of any Duke varsity sport." http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...uke/index.html So, I guess they don't even know themselves that they aren't considered a varsity sport - perhaps it's confusing b/c there is a varsity "level" squad (as opposed to JV) even though it's not a "varsity sport." ??

Also, on GoDuke.com, it lists only 24 sports from the dropdown, but I always hear people saying that Duke has 26 varsity sports teams (and see it confirmed from official sources such as theAcc.com and Duke's athletic and admissions sites). What are the other two then?

Edit: Even on Duke's Athletic Report (http://www.goduke.com/pdf5/80918.pdf...DB_OEM_ID=4200) it clearly states: "assisting our 26 varsity sports programs," but then only talks about 24 of them in the Sports Summaries. Perhaps the remaining 2 are "non-competitive" varsity sports so they don't have results to report?

[msdukie]

Also, on GoDuke.com, it lists only 24 sports from the dropdown, but I always hear people saying that Duke has 26 varsity sports teams (and see it confirmed from official sources such as theAcc.com and Duke's athletic and admissions sites). What are the other two then?

That's because men's indoor track and field, men's outdoor track and field, women's indoor track and field, women's outdoor track and field consist of 4 varsity sports (the NCAA awards championships for each of the two seasons and the sports are considered different, even if they have many of the same athletes). GoDuke just lists pages for men's and women's though it delineates it more on each page. There are also separate ACC indoor and outdoor championships, just like the separate NCAA indoor and outdoor championships. Thus, the 26 varsity sports.

http://www.theacc.com/this-is/accchampionships.html

http://org-www.ncaa.com/track-and-fi...lt.aspx?id=508

http://org-www.ncaa.com/track-and-fi...lt.aspx?id=524