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Thread: Letter from JA

  1. #1

    Letter from JA

    Received my personal letter from JA today telling me that he's my friend and that he was an incredible AD at Duke and that he's probably the greatest man to ever walk on earth. He also told me that he hired outstanding coaches and staff without naming Roof, Franks and Hillier.

    But then my wife broke my heart and told me is a form letter to all Iron Dukes.

  2. #2

    Funny

    You forgot to mention that he hired the volleyball (better), men's golf (too early), new baseball (better than pre-Hillier as well as Hillier), field hockey (better), rowing (1st coach), track (better), women's soccer (at least even), men's soccer (too early), wrestling (better), and, yes, men's lax (better) coaches during his tenure. Leaving out the fact that Gail Goestenkors was basically his hire as well as her successor, Coach P (too early). Were Franks and Roof bad hires. Absolutely. Did Hillier turn out to be a bad choice? Yes, but I will say this much, that man was given ZERO chance to succeed. Would he have if given a shot, I don't know but my gut says no. Again, beat the man down all you want, but the department is in MUCH better shape now than it was when he took over the reigns from Tom Butters.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    How was Coach G "basically" his hire? Does JA have a time machine back to 1992?
    ___________________
    Mike Stein
    Trinity '97, Tent #1 '97
    Tampa

  4. #4

    'Basically his hire'

    Quote Originally Posted by msdukie View Post
    How was Coach G "basically" his hire? Does JA have a time machine back to 1992?
    because Tom Butters didn't give a crap about women's hoops and didn't do much toward that search. And since you were in high school then and I was out of Duke but local, a big women's hoops fan, and knew Butters and Alleva at the time, you can simply take my word for it. Or not.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Inonehand View Post
    You forgot to mention that he hired the volleyball (better), men's golf (too early), new baseball (better than pre-Hillier as well as Hillier), field hockey (better), rowing (1st coach), track (better), women's soccer (at least even), men's soccer (too early), wrestling (better), and, yes, men's lax (better) coaches during his tenure. Leaving out the fact that Gail Goestenkors was basically his hire as well as her successor, Coach P (too early). Were Franks and Roof bad hires. Absolutely. Did Hillier turn out to be a bad choice? Yes, but I will say this much, that man was given ZERO chance to succeed. Would he have if given a shot, I don't know but my gut says no. Again, beat the man down all you want, but the department is in MUCH better shape now than it was when he took over the reigns from Tom Butters.
    track coach better than buehler, who was an olympic coach several times? Yeah he was mailing it in in the 90s but still. The track coach is not very good, 0 individual points in running events at ACCs this year, indoor or out.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inonehand View Post
    because Tom Butters didn't give a crap about women's hoops and didn't do much toward that search. And since you were in high school then and I was out of Duke but local, a big women's hoops fan, and knew Butters and Alleva at the time, you can simply take my word for it. Or not.
    I don't want to be argumentative, but I'd like the background info if you've got it...perhaps without the condescending tone though.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke09 View Post
    track coach better than buehler, who was an olympic coach several times? Yeah he was mailing it in in the 90s but still. The track coach is not very good, 0 individual points in running events at ACCs this year, indoor or out.
    First of all, that is inaccurate. Duke men and women both scored points at the ACC outdoor championships. Tyler Clarke could have won the decathlon but he pulled a Dan O'Brien and no-heighted on the pole vault.

    IMO, Norm Ogilvie has done a fine job as head track coach. The program is certainly in a lot better shape than it was in the latter part of Buehler's career. With no scholarships to work with, Ogilvie has crafted a bit of a niche for Duke in the distances, and we have done pretty well with that strategy. Duke's not going to compete for the top of the ACC on a regular basis without being competitive in scholarships, that is an unreasonable expectation. When you think about it, that makes our men's ACC title in 2000 really remarkable. Last year, the women came in 12th in the outdoor NCAAs, probably our best performance there in decades.

    We are fortunate to have a very good track coach at Duke, given how little that Duke supports track.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Inonehand View Post
    You forgot to mention that he hired the volleyball (better), men's golf (too early), new baseball (better than pre-Hillier as well as Hillier), field hockey (better), rowing (1st coach), track (better), women's soccer (at least even), men's soccer (too early), wrestling (better), and, yes, men's lax (better) coaches during his tenure. Leaving out the fact that Gail Goestenkors was basically his hire as well as her successor, Coach P (too early). Were Franks and Roof bad hires. Absolutely. Did Hillier turn out to be a bad choice? Yes, but I will say this much, that man was given ZERO chance to succeed. Would he have if given a shot, I don't know but my gut says no. Again, beat the man down all you want, but the department is in MUCH better shape now than it was when he took over the reigns from Tom Butters.
    We will choose to disagree with each other and that's OK. Football is very important to me (more than the other sports) and that is one of the main reasons that I don't think JA served us well. I also didn't like the way the letter was written - thought it was way over the top with respect to his accomplishments.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnie is still king View Post
    We will choose to disagree with each other and that's OK. Football is very important to me (more than the other sports) and that is one of the main reasons that I don't think JA served us well. I also didn't like the way the letter was written - thought it was way over the top with respect to his accomplishments.
    I had a similar reaction to the letter when I read it. It was such a contrast to Alleva's demeanor when he was in the job. I was an administrator at his children's schools. Though I greeted him when he attended various events in which they participated, he never acknowledged my presence or greeting in any way.

  10. #10
    Joe Alleva did a good job with all sports except football and women's basketball. Unfortunately for him that's all most Duke fan's care about with the exception of the men's B-Ball team.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by K24U View Post
    Joe Alleva did a good job with all sports except football and women's basketball. Unfortunately for him that's all most Duke fan's care about with the exception of the men's B-Ball team.
    I think that's a charitable interpretation of his track record regarding the baseball program. To be fair, he may not have been paying much attention to that team.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Devil in the Blue Dress View Post
    I had a similar reaction to the letter when I read it. It was such a contrast to Alleva's demeanor when he was in the job. I was an administrator at his children's schools. Though I greeted him when he attended various events in which they participated, he never acknowledged my presence or greeting in any way.
    Oh yes. Know that attitude well. His acknowledgement of me and others in my family has always been directly related to whether we were with a relative who is very powerful at Duke. I don't care personally but have been concerned for what that approach means for his job and for how well/poorly he represents the university.

    It's a puzzle. Everyone is the ID office knows us. We have season tickets in three sports. But JA (whom I have met too many times to count) never "remembers" having met me or other family members. He's the only person I know at Duke who continually has that problem.

    He gives the "good ol' boys" approach a bad name. I wish him well on the Bayou but he better clean up his act down there. He'll be encountering a culture where it's harder to succeed with his air of benign arrogance. My friends who have recently left NC to return to their beloved Baton Rouge say they are just waiting to watch him flame out.

    They believe his hubris (as shown in this letter) will be ill received.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by diablesseblu View Post
    ... his hubris (as shown in this letter) will be ill received.

    Yeah, it looked like a big horn-tooting waste of paper and postage to me.
    Did the money come out of the ID budget or the athletic department?
    Right into the circular file with Joe's love letter.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by gvtucker View Post
    First of all, that is inaccurate. Duke men and women both scored points at the ACC outdoor championships. Tyler Clarke could have won the decathlon but he pulled a Dan O'Brien and no-heighted on the pole vault.

    IMO, Norm Ogilvie has done a fine job as head track coach. The program is certainly in a lot better shape than it was in the latter part of Buehler's career. With no scholarships to work with, Ogilvie has crafted a bit of a niche for Duke in the distances, and we have done pretty well with that strategy. Duke's not going to compete for the top of the ACC on a regular basis without being competitive in scholarships, that is an unreasonable expectation. When you think about it, that makes our men's ACC title in 2000 really remarkable. Last year, the women came in 12th in the outdoor NCAAs, probably our best performance there in decades.

    We are fortunate to have a very good track coach at Duke, given how little that Duke supports track.

    He said running events. I haven't checked the results myself, but if true, it represents a sad decline from the state of the distance program just a few years ago.

    The sad part is, as bright as our program's future looked in the late '90s and early 00's, since we've started (slowly) adding scholarships things have just gotten worse.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by phaedrus View Post
    He said running events. I haven't checked the results myself, but if true, it represents a sad decline from the state of the distance program just a few years ago.

    The sad part is, as bright as our program's future looked in the late '90s and early 00's, since we've started (slowly) adding scholarships things have just gotten worse.
    I know that Molly Lehman placed in the outdoor 1500m. Not sure about the guys' running events, or if there were other gals that placed. And yeah, I missed that "running" part of his post, sorry.

    Still though, I'd really disagree with the thought that we're in a sad decline. Yes, this year wasn't as good as it has been, and no, we haven't won the ACC title since 2000. But I think that is a really unfair standard. (And anyway, we've got the same coach that got us there in 2000 to start with.) We have done well since that time, even had a multiple NCAA champ last year with Shannon Rowbury.

  16. #16

    We don't disagree as much as you think

    Quote Originally Posted by arnie is still king View Post
    We will choose to disagree with each other and that's OK. Football is very important to me (more than the other sports) and that is one of the main reasons that I don't think JA served us well. I also didn't like the way the letter was written - thought it was way over the top with respect to his accomplishments.
    Football is very important to me as well. I am excited about this coaching staff. Someone alluded earlier (maybe in another thread) that Dorrell was his first choice and had to be slowed down. IMO, Dorrell was K's choice and Joe was ready to run with it. Glad it didn't happen.

    I do agree Joe made some ridiculous moves in football prior to this. He also made a bad hire with Hillier. I also believe those hires were made when resources were not available to do what was needed to be successful in those sports. Some of that blame can go on Alleva but not all. Other hires have worked out well or very well.

    As for the letter...I don't read two page letters unless they're from my grandmother and I saw no need for it. A simple goodbye from a man who served our university pretty well should have been enough. No doubt, he invited this thread by going on and on. But, he didn't write the damn thing. Some other wordy wordsmith killed the trees for this one.

  17. #17

    MY condescending tone???

    Quote Originally Posted by El_Diablo View Post
    I don't want to be argumentative, but I'd like the background info if you've got it...perhaps without the condescending tone though.
    Funny.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duvall View Post
    I think that's a charitable interpretation of his track record regarding the baseball program. To be fair, he may not have been paying much attention to that team.
    Which seems kind of odd since his sons both played on it, and he was pals with Coach Hillier. Which might have been the main problem. Can't give Alleva a lot of credit for the McNally hire, if it indeed turns out ot be a good hire, as he was just one of a search committee of six, and not the leader of the committee.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by dkbaseball View Post
    Can't give Alleva a lot of credit for the McNally hire, if it indeed turns out ot be a good hire, as he was just one of a search committee of six, and not the leader of the committee.
    Can't give him much of the blame if it doesn't work out, can you?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indoor66 View Post
    Can't give him much of the blame if it doesn't work out, can you?
    That's right, and sort of goes without saying, doesn't it?

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