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Thread: very sad

  1. #1

    very sad

    our kids played so hard, but were once again handicapped by being GASSED for the back end of each half. While we Duke fans are all forever grateful to K for lifting us up to unparallelled heights, his refusal to rotate fresh bodies has cost us once again. Marty never moved off the bench in the second half, and is THE ONE GUY WE HAVE who is quick and fast with the ball. Greg and DeMarcus and Josh were all tired and abused by VCU quickness into unnecessary turnovers and poor shots. There is no way a fresh Marty could not have helped. What a shame.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by fogey View Post
    our kids played so hard, but were once again handicapped by being GASSED for the back end of each half. While we Duke fans are all forever grateful to K for lifting us up to unparallelled heights, his refusal to rotate fresh bodies has cost us once again. Marty never moved off the bench in the second half, and is THE ONE GUY WE HAVE who is quick and fast with the ball. Greg and DeMarcus and Josh were all tired and abused by VCU quickness into unnecessary turnovers and poor shots. There is no way a fresh Marty could not have helped. What a shame.
    I don't think that would have necessarily helped. What would help is if we made free throws and played some defense in the second half. Also, if Greg and Josh had some help from others that would have been nice. Greg was hounded all night long so should have been the most tired, but he was the one knocking down shots at the end. We needed some shots from DeMarcus and Jon to go down.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Allawah, NSW Australia (near Sydney)
    Quote Originally Posted by fogey View Post
    our kids played so hard, but were once again handicapped by being GASSED for the back end of each half. While we Duke fans are all forever grateful to K for lifting us up to unparallelled heights, his refusal to rotate fresh bodies has cost us once again. Marty never moved off the bench in the second half, and is THE ONE GUY WE HAVE who is quick and fast with the ball. Greg and DeMarcus and Josh were all tired and abused by VCU quickness into unnecessary turnovers and poor shots. There is no way a fresh Marty could not have helped. What a shame.


    I also asked several times where Marty was in the 2nd half, when fouls and fatigue had us badly winded. The guy made an explosive offensive play at one end, followed that up with good defense on the very next play, and then didn't see action again except when K had to throw somebody in there because henderson was bleeding. Meanwhile, our entire rotation was exhausted out there.

    I just don't understand it.

  4. #4
    Like i said in a post from before! we needed to play post to win this game! our players were so tired and yet K still called for all out man to man! if we play zone we keep them out of the paint, where they killed us in the second half...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Allawah, NSW Australia (near Sydney)
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    I don't think that would have necessarily helped. What would help is if we made free throws and played some defense in the second half. Also, if Greg and Josh had some help from others that would have been nice. Greg was hounded all night long so should have been the most tired, but he was the one knocking down shots at the end. We needed some shots from DeMarcus and Jon to go down.
    I agree that we needed more offense out of demarcus. I'm not sure what else scheyer could do though. They defended him pretty well. DeMarcus had lots of opportunities but for the most part didn't capitalize -- except his coast-to-coast layup right at the end.

    Our free throws and defense suffered at the end because of fatigue. Did you see Josh on his last two trips to the line? He played the entire game. I'm amazed he made two out of 4. Marty played well the brief time he was in there and should have been given more minutes so some other guys could rest.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Allawah, NSW Australia (near Sydney)
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukefan4Life View Post
    Like i said in a post from before! we needed to play post to win this game! our players were so tired and yet K still called for all out man to man! if we play zone we keep them out of the paint, where they killed us in the second half...
    possibly. it also might have given josh some rest. If your big man is going to play the entire 40 minutes, at least let him spend a few possessions on D just sitting at the back.

  7. #7
    Once again we use our bigs for screen setters! why we didnt go to josh in the post atleast once down floor is so crazy to me

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Chapel Hill

    It's hard not to think of this as a coach's loss

    We didn't really get any looks for a third scoring option. The box score will tell us we lost at the free throw line, but, of course, fatigue is an issue at the line. Horrible situation with 7.5 minutes when we had a 7 point lead and looked in disarray on offense. Turned it over leading to a three when we needed a time out to get a good look and maybe go up 9. Duke beat Duke, even though they showed toughness and McRoberts showed up. I didn't think that was possible against a team of VCU's level.
    GTHC

  9. #9
    they killed us when we went to the zone late in the first half. they would have continued to abuse a zone...didn't you see these guys shoot from the arc?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Chesapeake, VA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukefan4Life View Post
    our players were so tired and yet K still called for all out man to man! if we play zone we keep them out of the paint, where they killed us in the second half...
    Uh, not so much. If we played a zone, they could conceivably have made even MORE three pointers, which is really where they killed us in the second half. We had an 11 point lead and were playing really well and then they went 4-4 from 3-point land and the game was a dogfight from then on.

    Turnovers and free throws killed us tonight, just as they have all season.

    It was a nice team effort, though. Tough to lose it like that. I can see why VCU calls its games "40 minutes of hell."

  11. #11
    Join Date
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    Washington, DC
    I disagree that our main problem was a lack of post defense. They hit, what, nine threes? Four in a row to completely reverse momentum in the game?

    Our problem wasn't in the post, it was in a lack of quickness, perimeter defense, turnovers, and free throw shooting.

  12. #12
    Let's face it...there are too many things that were wrong.
    Last edited by BluBones; 03-15-2007 at 09:31 PM. Reason: Destructively negative.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Northern Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by Bluedog View Post
    What would help is if we made free throws and played some defense in the second half. Also, if Greg and Josh had some help from others that would have been nice. Greg was hounded all night long so should have been the most tired, but he was the one knocking down shots at the end. We needed some shots from DeMarcus and Jon to go down.
    True, but Greg wasn't making free throws. Tiredness is a big reason why they bounce off the front of the rim. I know the discussion has gone on for years on this board and opposing sides will never convince each other , but ever since the loss in '99 I (like so many others) have felt that bench utilization/development has been our biggest weakness. (I think that's the last time I personally mentioned it on this board.)

    Ugh. I think I'll just go to bed.

    Tomorrow I'll probably just be glad this season is over. Hopefully everyone will be back next year, and will be much improved.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Houston
    Quote Originally Posted by fogey View Post
    our kids played so hard, but were once again handicapped by being GASSED for the back end of each half. While we Duke fans are all forever grateful to K for lifting us up to unparallelled heights, his refusal to rotate fresh bodies has cost us once again. Marty never moved off the bench in the second half, and is THE ONE GUY WE HAVE who is quick and fast with the ball. Greg and DeMarcus and Josh were all tired and abused by VCU quickness into unnecessary turnovers and poor shots. There is no way a fresh Marty could not have helped. What a shame.
    Yeah, it's a shame--Marty played quite well when he was in the game. I think he could've helped at the end, but as a situational sub. I don't question K's decision to keep him on the pine most of the second half only because his defense is such a liability against teams with guards as quick as VCU's.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Allawah, NSW Australia (near Sydney)
    Quote Originally Posted by mapei View Post
    I disagree that our main problem was a lack of post defense. They hit, what, nine threes? Four in a row to completely reverse momentum in the game?

    Our problem wasn't in the post, it was in a lack of quickness, perimeter defense, turnovers, and free throw shooting.

    well, post scoring was a problem. It was pretty easy for us to get the ball in to Josh all night long but when he actually had to make a post move it was clear he had no idea what to do. He scored in this game, as he always has, on dunks, free throws, etc. Nothing wrong with that but when a guys is 3 inches taller than anyone else on the floor, it sure would be great if he could score with his back to the basket from 5 feet.

    And, of course, Zoubek, who has some low-post moves, is still very raw and barely got in the game, if at all. I saw him at the scorer's table once. Once.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Washington, DC
    There's some truth to that, but I have to say that it just doesn't seem K's style to be a post-oriented team on offense. He doesn't seem to recruit for that, at least since Brand and Boozer.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    much as i hate to say it, we don't have a coach that knows the post inside and out. We have 3 former guards as assistants. Wojo has been doing a bang up job, but i would think that it would be much better to have someone that played in the post to help with the different moves that are needed to maneuver. I know Wojo spent time with Pete Newell at his big man's camp grasping the fundamentals, but again, he never played the post so he's going to be handicapped.
    Duke '96
    Cary, NC

  18. #18
    I wouldn't call this sad. This outcome was completely expected given the predilection for running "star" players into the ground. When those players are JJ and Shelden, Christian and Grant, I can understand, but running players into the ground has proven to be unsuccessful as to keys to success as the NCAA (and NFL, even) have trended toward depth utilization that appear to be anathema to this staff.

    I almost feel as though the staff was willing to sacrifice success this year to gain a set of experiences going forward to use as motivation for its favored players. Whether that sacrifice will pay off remains to be seen, but my opinion is rather that it reflects a serious misstep on the part of the staff.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Carolina Beach NC

    Gross- Lets talk about that zone

    They scored ONE 3 against the zone. We stopped them once, and they hit one 3. The other 3s came in transition on pull up jumpers. NOT against the zone. That's not exactly "crushing the zone" as you say. Not saying it would have worked, I am saying those 3s you are talking about were NOT against the zone. Only 1 was.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Carolina Beach NC

    Susan- with regards to your last line

    I agree, but don't bet on it!

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