4 Games & 3 Games Left.

[GopherBlue]

You know, I started to write something profound and witty about high-jacking threads and pissing contests, but what's the point.

Just cut it out, or take it outside, both of you. Please.



. . . and know, back to our regularly scheduled 'community' discourse on the impending end of a wonderful season of Duke basketball.

[DankeShane]

Thread needs more photoshops.

[DoubleDuke Dad]

Well people as usual it just seems like we're getting into the swing of the basketball season when suddenly there are two weeks left in the regular season. Duke has the following games....

Wed. Feb 27th Georgia Tech @ home
Sat. March 1st NCSU @ away
Wed. March 5th UVA @ away
Sat. March 8th UNC @ home / senior day for Demarcus Nelson

UNC has only three games left, apparently they chose not to schedule an out of conference foe on their off rotation. For the heels with the injuries they have the decission looks great on their part....

Sat. March 1st Boston College @ away
Tues. March 4th FSU @ home / senior day for Woody Surry, maybe last home game for a couple others.
Sat. March 8th Duke @ away

Couldn't help but notice the heels have an extra day to prepare for Duke in addition to the rest they get this week. And it's also intresting to note that although Duke has the extra games both schools face teams in the bottom five of the conference. (Besides March 8th of course.) I think we had all hoped UNC would be really struggling without Lawson, but after their last two games I'm not so sure. He has been out much longer than anyone has expected, which makes me wonder if since they keep winning if they aren't letting him rest and get 100% for the ACC and NCAA tournaments.

It looks like on paper both teams should win out until the March 8th clash. (Of course we didn't forsee Duke losing two straight last week either.) So the winner of the last Duke / UNC game should be the #1 seed in the ACC tourney. For UNC to be the #2 is important IMO because the #3 is likely to be Clemson. And after losing heartbreakers twice this year to the heels I'm pretty sure Oliver Purnell wants another go at UNC. Plus we all know it's difficult to beat any team three times in one season.

So have at it. Predictions? Items of intrest? Potential pitfalls for both teams? Regardless of what happens the rest of the year I have to say I've been more proud of this team than any in recent memory. In a year when many thought UNC would go undefeated in conference play I think Coach K deserves COY honors hands down. But odds are the award will go elsewhere. Oh and of course Singler for ROY!

Since we beat UNC the first time, we could lose a game and still be the #1 seed in the ACC tournament if we beat UNC again. Of course I would much rather we win out.

[Uncle Drew]

To TRY and get back on topic. . .

I mentioned this in another thread. Everyone seems dead set on the winner between Duke/UNC getting the Charlotte Regional, when I think its quite possible that NEITHER team will get it. Memphis->Houston, and Tenn->Charlotte, or vice versa. The only way I see Duke or UNC getting Charlotte at this point is to win TWO games against the other. Duke would get it by sweeping UNC 3 times (an impressive feat). UNC would get it b/c they beat Duke twice (and b/c face it, they are UNC).

I can't see either of those scenarios happening, I see Duke winning the season series 2-1 as far more likely.

While we were all glad to see Duke get back to butt kicking instead of having their butts kicked. Those two losses in a row may have really hurt Duke when it comes down to NCAA seeding. It will be intresting to see where they are ranked when the newest poll comes out today. I'd be shocked to see Memphis lower than 2nd IMO, certainly not lower than 3rd. And I'd be shocked to see them lose another game until the NCAA's. That was a huge win for Tennessee, and I do see them as the class of the SEC. But I don't see the SEC as strong as past years. Greg Anthony picked UNC as a #1 seed and like so many teams in the top ten their fate is pretty much in their own hands. I would have had Kansas as a lock last week, but an upset loss and a few more semi tough games could knock them down a notch. The Pac 10 is every experts power conference but I'm not sure I see them getting #1 seed. UCLA may deserve one, but they can't have any more unexpected losses.

This is one of those years that so many things are up in the air as far as seedings, bubble teams, injuries etc. it's will be very difficult to know who is going where until we actually know.

Please note I made no derogatory comments about any players for any opposing school. I think the thread is back on track now....

Oh my God I'm Shelden Williams...oh Miss Parker!!!!!!! JK Shel, please don't kill me!

[TwoDukeTattoos]

You know, I started to write something profound and witty about high-jacking threads and pissing contests, but what's the point.

Just cut it out, or take it outside, both of you. Please.



. . . and know, back to our regularly scheduled 'community' discourse on the impending end of a wonderful season of Duke basketball.

I apologize to the community. And I have taken the initiative to take the topic offline with Jumbo.

[SilkyJ]

Wow. Call this thread sufficiently ruined.

for realzies. I thought the POY thing was kinda funny.

Jumbo is probably right that in general the "quality" and "IQ" of the commentary on the board has declined recently (which is just a natural part of an online, viral community as it amasses new members). Perhaps his tactics just need some refining.

In general, the reason I, and many others I know, are members of this community is b/c of the thoughtful discussion and believe that is a major part of it what differentiates it. I am definitely in favor of "active moderating" (term I just made up) in this regard, but believe that instead of the initial response from a moderator being something short, sharp, and not really helpful like "whats your point" something more thoughtful and eloquent (like his later responses where he actually said WHY he made the initial comment) might be of more use/help achieve the overall goal.

[shadowfax336]

for realzies. I thought the POY thing was kinda funny.

Jumbo is probably right that in general the "quality" and "IQ" of the commentary on the board has declined recently (which is just a natural part of an online, viral community as it amasses new members). Perhaps his tactics just need some refining.

In general, the reason I, and many others I know, are members of this community is b/c of the thoughtful discussion and believe that is a major part of it what differentiates it. I am definitely in favor of "active moderating" (term I just made up) in this regard, but believe that instead of the initial response from a moderator being something short, sharp, and not really helpful like "whats your point" something more thoughtful and eloquent (like his later responses where he actually said WHY he made the initial comment) might be of more use/help achieve the overall goal.

Agreed with all that...
There's no need to be childish, it has been a problem, but its also possible to be funny for no particular reason and not detract from the community

[Jumbo]

for realzies. I thought the POY thing was kinda funny.

Jumbo is probably right that in general the "quality" and "IQ" of the commentary on the board has declined recently (which is just a natural part of an online, viral community as it amasses new members). Perhaps his tactics just need some refining.

In general, the reason I, and many others I know, are members of this community is b/c of the thoughtful discussion and believe that is a major part of it what differentiates it. I am definitely in favor of "active moderating" (term I just made up) in this regard, but believe that instead of the initial response from a moderator being something short, sharp, and not really helpful like "whats your point" something more thoughtful and eloquent (like his later responses where he actually said WHY he made the initial comment) might be of more use/help achieve the overall goal.

Point taken and appreciated.

[3rd Dukie]

I kinda thought one of the purposes of a fans' board like DBR was to needle the opponents, particularly rivals like UNC. I guess I got that wrong.

Can anyone point to a rule book that specifies that poking fun at opponents, whether funny or not -sidebarI, for one, thought the comment was witty, and I also knew he was paying the opposing player, who shall go unnamed, a compliment as well understanding that the OP really meant Player of the Year)-end sidebar: is prohibited? If not, then maybe mods who comment on posts should make it clear as to whether they are commenting in some official capacity or as an irritated fan.

Just a thought.

[3rd Dukie]

I kinda thought one of the purposes of a fans' board like DBR was to needle the opponents, particularly rivals like UNC. I guess I got that wrong.

Can anyone point to a rule book that specifies that poking fun at opponents, whether funny or not -sidebarI, for one, thought the comment was witty, and I also knew he was paying the opposing player, who shall go unnamed, a compliment as well understanding that the OP really meant Player of the Year)-end sidebar: is prohibited? If not, then maybe mods who comment on posts should make it clear as to whether they are commenting in some official capacity or as an irritated fan.

Just a thought.

for a run on sentence. Man, I butchered that one.

[Devilsfan]

My NPOY is Beasley of KSU not Hanstravel. Hope we have our A game on the 8th with our "top" recruits in the stands.

[Classof06]

As of today, Joe Lunardi has Duke as the 2 seed in the East Regional, meaning we would still get the Raleigh-to-Charlotte path. To be honest, while a 1 seed would be great, I wouldn't mind Duke being a 2 seed but still getting the in-state path.

Obviously, I'm not trying to lose to UNC one (or two) times this year but to me, as long as Duke is on that in-state path, I could care less. Barring a massive collapse, I don't see Duke being any worse than a 2 seed, even if we take an early exit from the ACC tournament.

[Troublemaker]

To TRY and get back on topic. . .

I mentioned this in another thread. Everyone seems dead set on the winner between Duke/UNC getting the Charlotte Regional, when I think its quite possible that NEITHER team will get it. Memphis->Houston, and Tenn->Charlotte, or vice versa. The only way I see Duke or UNC getting Charlotte at this point is to win TWO games against the other. Duke would get it by sweeping UNC 3 times (an impressive feat). UNC would get it b/c they beat Duke twice (and b/c face it, they are UNC).

I can't see either of those scenarios happening, I see Duke winning the season series 2-1 as far more likely.

Duke and UNC don't necessarily need to be 1 seeds to be in Charlotte (and Raleigh). Either team can be a 2 seed in the East (Charlotte region), unless there is some new guidance for the NCAA committee that I'm unaware of which states that the 1 seed will be "protected" from having a lower seed potentially play in their home state vs the 1 seed. In any case, I think the Charlotte path is overrated for Duke. It's important for UNC because they would get a nice home crowd advantage should they advance, but for Duke, the crowd would be neutral at best.

[Troublemaker]

While we were all glad to see Duke get back to butt kicking instead of having their butts kicked. Those two losses in a row may have really hurt Duke when it comes down to NCAA seeding.

I really don't think the losses hurt Duke too bad. I mean, if we continue to lose (i.e. to Carolina at home, in the ACC tournament, another road game, etc), then yeah, it will begin to hurt, but as of right now? All I think the losses accomplished was to eat into our margin of error, which we had built up by way of the long winning streak we had. Before the two losses occurred, when we were 23-1, we could afford to lose a game or two. Now, after the two losses, we can't afford to keep losing. The margin of error is gone, but the "hurt" hasn't happened yet.

Also, the biggest reason the losses don't hurt as much as you might think is because the S-curve is going to end up being a poor indicator of team strength at the top this season. In other words, I would rather be a 2 seed in Memphis' region than a 1 seed with UCLA as the 2 seed. That kind of thing. Whether Duke ends up being in a tough bracket or not is more a matter of luck than a matter of whether Duke is a 1 seed or a 2 seed; Duke could easily have an easier path as a 2 seed than as a 1 seed. So seeding at the top really doesn't matter much this season.

[gw67]

I agree with Latta6970 that both teams should win out setting up the March 8th game for the regular season championship and no.1 seed in the ACC tournament. The Heels should benefit from playing just three games but the Devils should have little trouble winning out over bottom feeders, Georgia Tech, NC State and Virginia. It should be a great game!

I think Hansbrough has the league POY sewed up and it’s not close, IMO. Coach K has done an outstanding job with this year’s team, integrating the youngsters with the returnees and implementing a new offensive scheme. His only competition for COY is Gaudio of Wake who has dealt with the death of Prosser and the development of the youngest, and one of the least heralded teams in the ACC. Singler is a special player but so is Johnson of Wake. I see the ROY award being won by one of them.

gw67

[dynastydefender]

Thread needs more photoshops.

How did you get that to fit when that obviously is bigger than the 100 x 100 dimension limit?

[SilkyJ]

generally speaking, when you've got a couple star players with similar numbers running neck and neck for the NPOY, i tend to lean towards the doctrine of "rewarding the best player on the best team."

Now by no means do I believe that should be done EVERY time in these situations. I'm just saying that generally I lean that way, often because you encounter situations where some guy from Virginia Military Institute is leading the country in scoring at 32ppg and dishing out 11asts per game...(I seem to remember a guy from VMI actually leading the country in scoring not too long ago...maybe during the Jwill years...)

Of course, that isn't the situation we are dealing with it and its sort of an extreme situation at that. The point, though, has to do with two main things: the fact that putting up those #'s against far inferior competition is not nearly as impressive as putting up lesser, but still very good, numbers against much, much better competition. Secondly is the fact that basketball is about winning and being a top 5 team (which means you have a really, really, good record) as opposed to an OK team holds a premium for me.

So, Hansbrough is the leader/workhorse of one of the top 5 (arguably 2 or 3) teams in the country and is obviously a very, very, very good basketball player. So normally I would lean to him.

Now I know after that somewhat lengthy explanation that you probably think I am going to back hansbrough for POY, but wait, there's more.

The thing about K State, is that they probably wouldn't even make the tournament without Beasley, so I have to place a premium on the fact that he really raises the quality of the team...and by a lot. So essentially the "best player on the best team" aspect of the evaluation is even with the "takes the team from irrelevant to very relevant." So basically I consider that a wash. How can I value being a great player and the leader on a great team where you already have good-great players playing around you, MORE than I value taking a completely irrelevant team with average players and making them a top 25-30 team? Its just too difficult for me to place a higher premium on one vs the other.

So it comes down to the numbers for me, basically, and beasley has better #'s. Hansbrough has stepped it up with lawson out, but beasley still scores 26ppg to Tyler's 23ppg. Pulls down 12.5rpg to tyler's 10.5, and has a good to very good 3 pt shot. Tyler has displayed his jumper more this year (and it looks pretty good) but Beasley's is still better. Not to mention on the defensive end beasley is a presence as well swatting 1.6 shots and getting over a steal a game. Hansbrough gets a steal a game as well, but doesn't block anything. So after all that, I am forced to basically just look at the #'s and a little bit at versatility, and Beasley has him in just about every aspect, even if it is by a narrow margin, so I go with Beasley.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

The point of this board is to discuss Duke basketball. Obviously, part of that involves dealing with UNC. But the fact that basically every thread now has some lame attempt at humor with some stupid derivative of Hansbrough's name detracts from the overall IQ and quality that has made this site different over the years. If you want to play pin-the-name-on-Tyler all day, the Devils Den is perfect.

Thank you for making this point, Jumbo. I choose to participate on this board because most other participants present a variety of points of view in a way that is sometimes clever, usually mature and not adolescent. This board reflects a high quality of community much like the high quality of the Duke basketball program itself.

[SilkyJ]

Also, the biggest reason the losses don't hurt as much as you might think is because the S-curve is going to end up being a poor indicator of team strength at the top this season. In other words, I would rather be a 2 seed in Memphis' region than a 1 seed with UCLA as the 2 seed. That kind of thing.

Just to clarify a bit, in the 2nd sentence I think you're saying that you would rather be a #2 with the "weakest" #1 seed (i.e. memphis) then be a #1 seed and have some really good #2 seed breathing down our neck (i.e. UCLA). (which, by the way, I agree with, generally speaking from year to year, but obviously each year is different)

If that's what you are saying, then I guess I don't understand the very first sentence about how S-curve is going to end up being a poor indicator of the strength. Is that because you think there are 8-10 teams that are all very, very good and very close in terms who is better? Cause that's what it sounds like you are saying. But if that's the case, then what does it really matter where we land on the S-curve cause there is so much parity amongst the top 8-10 teams (or in other words, all the 1 and 2 seeds are all about the same in terms of quality, matchups aside, so what difference does it make?)

(as you can see I'm just confused as to what you're saying, so looking for some clarification...)

[Clipsfan]

Duke and UNC don't necessarily need to be 1 seeds to be in Charlotte (and Raleigh). Either team can be a 2 seed in the East (Charlotte region), unless there is some new guidance for the NCAA committee that I'm unaware of which states that the 1 seed will be "protected" from having a lower seed potentially play in their home state vs the 1 seed. In any case, I think the Charlotte path is overrated for Duke. It's important for UNC because they would get a nice home crowd advantage should they advance, but for Duke, the crowd would be neutral at best.

I think that it's not always as much about how we'd like to be in Charlotte as how we'd hate to be in Phoenix playing UCLA, for example. We'd take a neutral atmosphere and almost no travel rather than a negative atmosphere and multiple time zones.