Patrick Yates

[paulie dogs]

I love this thread. As someone who knew Yates personally in school, it was always good times to sit around and talk about Yates, so I am 100% in favor of threads which do precisely this.

You have to have known Yates to know that he is all talk. He likes to talk big, either to sound knowledgeable or to get a rise out of people, but in truth he is harmless. Then again, when all you have to judge a person is thier postings (as in a forum like this) I can see how you might get a bit tired of him. I am just here to say that as one who knew him...he wasn't as bad as some people here are saying.

I can also assure you that despite his time-to-time negativity towards elements of Duke or Duke basketball, he was a fan of Duke.

[BD80]

I imagine there have been studies regarding the psychology of group message boards such as these. I wonder at the psychology of the negativity about the very topic of the group. Why join a group supporting Blue Devil Basketball if you are negative about the team? Why express such negativity?

I disliked Mr. Yates' posts, but I despised the ensuing bitterness where some would defend the right to be negative and criticize those that feel that the board should be nearly void of negativity. I lean toward the Polly Anna side, relying on this sight for info - good or bad - but dislike any negative comments about recruits or players, even if it is something like "Nolan is better than Greg." Suffice it to say that I won't miss Mr. Yates, and hope that this "new" poster BostonLawyer who joined just as Mr. Yates is banned, will be less negative and appreciate that this is a board for Duke fans.

[blueprofessor]

I immensely enjoy the various opinions of the DBR posters.Obviously, some folks are very knowledgeable about basketball and the Duke team.I know I learn a good deal, as my bball playing days are long past.Many posts reflect the writer's impressions, conceptions,feelings,and valuations---all subjective and immune to proof through the scientific method.This fact makes posts interesting and enjoyable to read, as well as subject to disagreement.Thanks to all who post.
At the same time, I appreciate conflicting ,contrary, non-conventional wisdom posts as they do enrich the discussions.So, I am for free expression of any sort within the rules as interpreted by the mods.
Consider how pedestrian and tedious this board would be if a post were followed by 20 "I agree" statements( excepting,of course,"GTH,C,GTH!").
Is Yates' sentence capital punishment or life,with the opportunity for parole?
Best regards to all Duke fans.Professor of ethics.

[Wander]

I immensely enjoy the various opinions of the DBR posters.Obviously, some folks are very knowledgeable about basketball and the Duke team.I know I learn a good deal, as my bball playing days are long past.Many posts reflect the writer's impressions, conceptions,feelings,and valuations---all subjective and immune to proof through the scientific method.This fact makes posts interesting and enjoyable to read, as well as subject to disagreement.Thanks to all who post.
At the same time, I appreciate conflicting ,contrary, non-conventional wisdom posts as they do enrich the discussions.So, I am for free expression of any sort within the rules as interpreted by the mods.
Consider how pedestrian and tedious this board would be if a post were followed by 20 "I agree" statements( excepting,of course,"GTH,C,GTH!").
Is Yates' sentence capital punishment or life,with the opportunity for parole?
Best regards to all Duke fans.Professor of ethics.

I agree.

[blueprofessor]

I agree.

Heh,heh! Wander, you are a glib writer and a person of savoir-faire! I think you will agree with that as well.
Best regards,Duke fans.Beat State! Professor of ethics

[jimbonelson]

you only spend 1/6 of your working day here

When I first joined this board I had posts deleted, warnings issued, and threads canceled.

Then I learned to play by the rules. That is really what its all about here. If you dont like the rules post somewhere else.

Almost every time I log on I'm tempted to post something(s) that might get me banned for a while. I like it here though, so I dont.

I liked a lot of Yates' posts and I also dislike a lot of the mods' decisions. However, in all I think they (mods) do a great job. Why else would I spend 1/6 of my working day reading this stuff!

[Uncle Drew]

It is with a spirit of community and openness that we post the following note. Almost since the day we launched the new site, moderators and administrators have been trying to figure out how to deal with a problematic poster, Patrick Yates. We tried citations, which really didn't work -- before the Virginia Tech game, Patrick had already amassed nine, which had resulted in brief vacations but no substantial change in behavior. We tried private messages, but most were ignored and some were greeted with insults. For some time, we had discussed whether he should be permanently banned -- that's one of the longest ongoing discussion threads on the moderator board.

After the Virginia Tech game, Patrick crossed a line that we were no longer willing to tolerate. In a post about the Hokies, he made a number of sexist, derogatory comments that did nothing to add to the discussion. His point could have been made without such language or references. In our estimation, it was another attempt by Patrick to push the line as far as he could to incite a reaction.

The moderators unanimously concluded that Patrick would be banned henceforth. But we don't relish such action, and we believe the community deserves an explanation, rather than a simple disappearance. So, please let this serve as an example that we're willing to give people a lot of leeway for a long time. But, in the end, we are going to maintain the desired community. And if that means someone will have to leave, so be it.

The Mods.

1. I didn't know PY personally, never met the guy, talked to him on the phone etc.

2. I didn't see the post VT comments that stirred up yet more controversy, but I know he had been given previous warnings, suspensions and censoring.

3. As someone who has been censored and given warnings I'm sure there are are a ton of posters and mods who don't like my posts either.

DBR is free to censor, suspend and even ban whomever they want to. Freedom of speech doesn't apply to a privately owned website, and as the mods and many other posters have said there are plenty of other places to post on line. That being said, sometimes the DBR message boards seem like a little club where controversy is looked down upon and if you don't agree with the majority you're out of the clique. I'm sure some people would say PY's posts lacked basis, foundation and weren't backed up with hard data etc. from time to time. While others tag his post with the "negativity" label because he didn't share the glass is half full opinion of most of the posters on here.

In some ways I like that DBR isn't a "______ sucks", "______ should be benched and needs to transfer" and "I'd like to take a bat to _________'s knees to where he never walks again just for playing for ________" kind of board. At the same time I have seen incidents IMO where DBR even posted an article link they knew would stir controversy, yet when someone such as myself commented I got chastised for not being politically correct enough when the articles themselves were far from politically correct. (Barry Saunders articles for example!) Or like in the recent recruiting posts when someone such as PY second guesses recruiting strategy, laments on UNC success and questions how close player A, B or C is actually leaning toward giving a Duke verbal he got blasted from all sides when a lot of us have concerns over the same issues.

To insinuate PY wasn't a Duke fan at all is insane. Nobody would take the time to type the lengthy posts and responses he did if they didn't truly care about Duke. In fact if anything I think his posts demonstrated he was one of the most fervent Duke fans on here. DBR states they want the board to be a "community" which in theory sounds fine and perfectly PC. But in any "community" there are going to be neighbors who don't agree, get along have different core values and beliefs. The mods have the right to whatever they choose, even ban me after this post if they so choose. But as many times as PY crossed the lines, it's almost like the city councilmen of this community put it to a vote and evicted a citizen from stepping foot in the town ever again. We all look at things from different angles and we bring our own perspectives. IMO whether PY deserved to be banned or not, the insinuation is, "think like we think, post like we post or don't post at all".


Finally, after being censored once several months back one of the mods told me to consider who could be reading my posts before I submitted them. And if I'd be embarrassed for my grandmother or a six year old to read it to err on the side of caution. The Internet is a dark, seedy place a lot of times with plenty of uncensored images and blogs to be found and they didn't want DBR to be remotely linked to that type of on line experience. But at times IMO some of the posts are a bit "high brow" and what freakin' six year old is going to read and post on DBR? When I read a post that says, "John Scheyer makes facial expressions like Elmo" or "Tyler Hansbrough has a butt like Sponge Bob Square Pants", THAT'S the time to post somewhere else! Again I defend the mods right to do as they choose and as stated they debated long and hard about what to do in the PY situation. I just wonder if PY had the same viewpoint and glass in half full attitude if he might not be allowed to continue posting here.

[dukestheheat]

I love this thread. As someone who knew Yates personally in school, it was always good times to sit around and talk about Yates, so I am 100% in favor of threads which do precisely this.

You have to have known Yates to know that he is all talk. He likes to talk big, either to sound knowledgeable or to get a rise out of people, but in truth he is harmless. Then again, when all you have to judge a person is thier postings (as in a forum like this) I can see how you might get a bit tired of him. I am just here to say that as one who knew him...he wasn't as bad as some people here are saying.

I can also assure you that despite his time-to-time negativity towards elements of Duke or Duke basketball, he was a fan of Duke.

Certainly, I didn't know him and his posts at times took on an ascerbic tone but I, for one, have the choice of to read/not to read the posts of others. So I would prefer him to remain but I respect the decision of the moderators. We have one of the best discussion boards on the planet and it may take moves like this to keep things above board.

dth.

[-jk]

Is Yates' sentence capital punishment or life,with the opportunity for parole?
Best regards to all Duke fans.Professor of ethics.

Since we moved to this version of board software late last season, he's earned ten citations. His parole eligibility is long since past. He has posted his last message here.

Anyone paying attention can see that we don't censor negativity, per se. Only that which goes "beyond the pale."

-jk

[throatybeard]

Since we moved to this version of board software late last season, he's earned ten citations

So, he's like Willie Williams.

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

[kcduke75]

He likes to talk big, either to sound knowledgeable or to get a rise out of people, but in truth he is harmless.

I am glad to hear from someone with this perspective. I will not miss him, though. Thanks mods.

[SeattleIrish]

I didn't agree with most of PY's posts, and I didn't feel many of them added much to this "community" (specifically those regarding recruiting "misses"). However, I didn't feel his posts (I didn't read them all) crossed the line to warrent citation or removal.

But, while we may not reach consensus on whether PY's posts merited permenant banishment, I think we can all agree that someone who received 10 warnings that his behavior is seen as inappropriate by those charged with monitoring this community, and still failed to moderate his behavior to meet those repeatedly stated expectations, in full understanding of the consequences, is effectively CHOOSING to banish himself.

Perhaps I wouldn't have thought his posts warrented citations, but I won't bemoan the loss of someone who chooses not to be a member of this community.

s.i.

[dukie8]

did anyone else feel like they were reading an obit at the start of this thread?

[devildeac]

Why else would I spend 1/6 of my working day reading this stuff!

Why so little time reading the boards? Don't you like us ?

[KandG]

I'm mostly a lurker here, but I've been a member of enough forums to have a good feel for when someone is pushing the line of discourse as set by the moderators and the community.

Looking at many of Patrick Yates' posts at a superficial level, he hardly seemed the type who would be banned. He wasn't particularly loud, insulting, inflammatory, or trollish. However, he had a pretty unique ability to irritate by the way he made his points, and some of his long posts seemed designed to deflect or obfuscate any reasonable points that could have served as a rebuttal or stimulated further discussion. Some of his posts were almost a mockery or parody of reasoned discussion -- a lot of verbiage to basically say "this is what I think based on what I believe, never mind what the facts actually are".

I am sorry to hear about the posts that led to his banning. I never saw them, but I wasn't aware of how crude they actually were.

[Duvall]

After the Virginia Tech game, Patrick crossed a line that we were no longer willing to tolerate. In a post about the Hokies, he made a number of sexist, derogatory comments that did nothing to add to the discussion.

It will be interesting and instructive to see if the Patrick Yates standard will be applied to all posters, or just most of them.

[Jumbo]

It will be interesting and instructive to see if the Patrick Yates standard will be applied to all posters, or just most of them.

Keep in mind that the statement you quoted can't be taken in isolation. Patrick had received 10 infractions already, and the moderators had been debating what to do about him for a while. That he lasted as long as he did is a testament to our willingness to allow leeway and to discuss things as a group, I think. His final post was just so far over the line that it finally made the decision easy. That said, if someone with no history of difficulty had posted the same thing, I can't say it would have led to an immediate banishment. This is about a pattern of behavior that got worse with each rebuke, not better.

[stickdog]

Yates? Yates?! He still owes me money!

[Jumbo]

Yates? Yates?! He still owes me money!

You're back! This had better not be your last post...

[sandinmyshoes]

I agree with the posters who have said it would be boring if this board was just full of complete Duke sycophants. I'd rather have respectful UNC fans than Duke fans who are mindlessly loyal and have this conception that the Duke program (or school) is perfect or if it's not we'll hid the imperfections in the closet and just not discuss them.

There are fans that are over-worried about any imperfection, and I sometimes felt like Patrick was that way. I would like to believe this didn't color the decision of the mods, and DO believe that is the case in any concious decision they made. But they are only human and I believe they are doing their best to be fair. They may have even given Patrick more leeway than most to compensate for their personal distaste.