Let me be the 1st...Nolan or Greg?

[heath_harshman4]

As for Duke Freshman point guards who played a lot possibly hitting a wall- check out Hurley's performances in late March in his Freshman year. 0-9 against UConn, 0-2 against Arkansas and 0-3 against UNLV. So maybe at least 1 Freshman in the history of college hoops hit a wall because he played too much.

there's no doubt freshman, or any player, but probably freshman more often, hit a wall.

but because of too much playing time? I think that could be a factor, but the only one? Pinning hitting a wall on too much playing time alone is not a good enough argument to prove your point.

[dukelifer]

there's no doubt freshman, or any player, but probably freshman more often, hit a wall.

but because of too much playing time? I think that could be a factor, but the only one? Pinning hitting a wall on too much playing time alone is not a good enough argument to prove your point.

The wall is probably more mental than anything else. But playing a lot suggests that the player is being asked to do a lot- and if that is in pressure games day in and day out- it can take a toll. So it is likely related but not the only factor. It is also very player dependent. It just goes to show that you have to be very careful about what you say on these boards- as one little overstatement can get blown up.

[MikeS]

We need both of them to produce meaning even if Smith shows that he is better player by season's end we stick with Paulus as the starter because you don't want to shake his confidence and need him to be successful.

[Cameron]

I agree with most here, Greg and Nolan sharing the time will do just fine.

One thing is certain, however, I think we have found our next point guard great at Duke (not trying to take anything away from Greg here, just saying). That is if Nolan sticks around until he is a junior (I'm confident he will, but I guess you never know...) Nolan has been such a LIFT for us in the backcourt, both offensively and defensively. I don't even think we can put it into words how great he has been for us this season.

Last season, when Greg was really struggling, there was so much talk about Nolan perhaps coming in and taking Greg's spot. Many weren't quite sure how Nolan would do primarily handling the point guard slot, since he was more of a shooting guard at Oak Hill. Even though we didn't need him to take Greg's spot over, I think Nolan has answered that question.

He could be our next in line for Defensive Player of the Year honors. Maybe as early as next year.

[Jumbo]

Henderson played 33 mins while Scheyer had 28 and I think we can both agree K wanted the offense going through Nelson and Hendo down the stretch.

What are you talking about? We were talking about who was in the game at the end. Both of them were -- just as they both are in every close game. Have you watched many Duke games this year?

[micah75]

My numbers show me Greg had 12 pts, 4 steals, 2 assists, 1 TO. Nolan had 14 pts, 1 steal, 1 assist and 2 TO.

That's with roughly equal time (I know Nolan had more PT time tonight but it was close enough). And that is one of Greg's "bad" nights and apparently there's a number of people who think Nolan had one of his best performances tonight.

I'm not sure why there's an argument.

It's amazing, isn't it? Greg gets crapped on for his lone turnover; meanwhile, the rest of his contribution is overlooked by the thread-starter. I agree with Jumbo, can't we savor the win for say... 12 hours or so before starting a controversy about PT?

I'll tell ya, I'm gonna sic (sic) my Momma on the next person who trashes Greg Paulus, and you ain't gonna like it none too much.

[Jumbo]

As if this thread weren't silly enough, let's see what happens when I throw some stats into the mix: http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/...ead.php?t=6368

[Devilsfan]

It's clear we need both of our guards as each one brings something different to the table. Paulus playing limited minutes gives him fresh legs to hit his threes, not to mention standing up to bullies like Va Tech's Washington. Smith brings something missing in guards like a Wojo and a Paulus; speed, athleticism and natural instinctiveness for the game. Paulus is the present and Smith is Dukes future, especially with the new up tempo offense that's so much fun to watch.

[SilkyJ]

I'm not sure that it's an "either or" situation.

We have two great point guards that bring different styles and different strengths. No need to choose, IMO.

I'm just thrilled we have them both for another year. They'll both continue pushing each other, which will make them--and this team--better.

I'm late to the party, but I see it as not even a question to me that Nolan should be starting and playing more, and I think its illustrated in what you said above, though I disagree with it: "two great point guards." I see greg as an adequate to good PG, he's not amazingly quick or have a great handle, but he's a very good passer a very good open shooter. I see him like wojo (who is one of my favorites of all time) where he can get the job done and get it done well.

But nolan has the capability to be truly GREAT one day. greg will never be an all-american. Nolan will be, i think. I admit that I'm talking about nolan being great in the future, and the main argument in favor of greg is that he is a vet and his experience vs. nolan's inexperience, but nolan is playing with such maturity and under complete control that I think greg's "steadying influence" argument is now negated b/c nolan is just as steady, is a solid shooter and a way, way, way better scorer overall and a way better defender. we need to start this guy, imo and have him play more minutes than greg.

In 3 years has anyone see Greg hit one pull up? He over drives and his conversion rate on layups is poor. He needs to work on his mid range.

he started to last year, but has stopped trying that. i agree he should look to try that move more.

[Mike Corey]

SilkyJ,

As a long-time lurker on this board, I've come to respect your opinion a great deal with regards to basketball. (I'm sure I'd respect it elsewhere, too, I'm just unfamiliar...but I digress).

I certainly agree with you that Nolan Smith has the potential to be a "great" at Duke. I don't agree that Greg will never be a "great." How many of us would have surmised that DeMarcus Nelson would be having this kind of a senior year prior to what has transpired thus far?

Make no mistake: Knowing that Smith and Paulus are in the backcourt makes me exceedingly happy. I am enamored with what Smith brings to this team, in all the areas you and so many others have mentioned. Knowing that he's a young man of tremendous leadership skills and character makes me all the happier.

And yet, I'm not convinced that he is infinitely better than his backcourt mate, Greg Paulus, at least not to the degree that a demonstrable difference ought to exist in terms of their playing time. I'm very happy to disagree on this point, of course.

[Matches]

I like the platoon situation we have now, but I do think as the year goes on Nolan will get more and more minutes (as seems to be happening). I love Greg to death - he's a huge part of the team - but IMO Nolan is the better playmaker and clearly the better defender.

I really wouldn't mind seeing them on the floor together more often, either, particularly late in games when we are trying to protect a lead.

[CDu]

It's amazing, isn't it? Greg gets crapped on for his lone turnover; meanwhile, the rest of his contribution is overlooked by the thread-starter. I agree with Jumbo, can't we savor the win for say... 12 hours or so before starting a controversy about PT?

I'll tell ya, I'm gonna sic (sic) my Momma on the next person who trashes Greg Paulus, and you ain't gonna like it none too much.

To be fair, Paulus has received more than his fair share of accolades for his "timely" great plays during some really bad performances. See the Davidson game and (I believe) the FSU game. Paulus' one turnover came in crunch time last night. If he can be the beneficiary of being overpraised for a bad game with a good couple of minutes, he can be the recipient of undue criticism for a good game with a bad few minutes.

Also, unrelated, I have a beef with the poster who posed the "this was a bad game for Paulus and a great game for Smith yet their stats matched" argument as evidence that Paulus is better. It was actually one of his better games this year.

Regardless, my answer to the thread is it doesn't matter who starts. The system is going to work as is - the guy who's playing better will get more minutes. They'll both be given every chance to prove themselves though, and they'll both get a fair amount of playing time.

[heath_harshman4]

What are you talking about? We were talking about who was in the game at the end. Both of them were -- just as they both are in every close game. Have you watched many Duke games this year?

There are only a couple things that bug me alot. One is when someone who doesn't know me AT ALL questions my fanhood. Yes, I have seen many Duke games this year. All except the Eastern Kentucky game. So, please, when someone disagrees with you/ presents a difference of opinion, don't question whether or not they are a fan.

My point was, Coach K is going to put in who he thinks is playing the best at the end of the game. Which, is my whole argument about Nolan and Greg (which is what this thread is about). Gerald and Demarcus were obviously the focal points of the offense late in the game, and of course Jon is going to be in there because he is a great FT shooter. You cannot deny that Jon was secondary offensively down the stretch of the game because of how well Markie and Gerald were playing and they, with the flow of the game, were the focal points. That is the point I was trying to make, I thought it was obvious and that I wouldn't need to explain it.

[kydevil]

In 3 years has anyone see Greg hit one pull up? He over drives and his conversion rate on layups is poor. He needs to work on his mid range.

The ones against FSU were pretty clutch... lets not forget against Davidson either?

[wumhenry]

Starting with the premise that Coach K knows his *ss from his elbow, I deduce that it was in the team's best interest to start GP up to now and for NS to come off the bench. Even if SilkyJ and other DBR correspondents think otherwise. I also deduce from the same premise that if and when it will serve the team's best interest for Nolan Smith to start instead of Paulus, that's what will happen. And if what happens, or has happened, doesn't jibe with what SilkyJ et al think should happen, perhaps SilkyJ et al are missing something.

I'm late to the party, but I see it as not even a question to me that Nolan should be starting and playing more, and I think its illustrated in what you said above, though I disagree with it: "two great point guards." I see greg as an adequate to good PG, he's not amazingly quick or have a great handle, but he's a very good passer a very good open shooter. I see him like wojo (who is one of my favorites of all time) where he can get the job done and get it done well.

But nolan has the capability to be truly GREAT one day. greg will never be an all-american. Nolan will be, i think. I admit that I'm talking about nolan being great in the future, and the main argument in favor of greg is that he is a vet and his experience vs. nolan's inexperience, but nolan is playing with such maturity and under complete control that I think greg's "steadying influence" argument is now negated b/c nolan is just as steady, is a solid shooter and a way, way, way better scorer overall and a way better defender. we need to start this guy, imo and have him play more minutes than greg.



he started to last year, but has stopped trying that. i agree he should look to try that move more.

[Papa John]

There is no reason to "choose" between one. Play the hot hand, let them both develop, and enjoy a great win. Why create controversy for the sake of creating controversy.

And, to take it one step further... I like K's wisdom in starting his experienced veteran PG, then forcing his opponent off balance by spelling him with the more athletic, rapidly improving freshman... This is a wonderful dilemma to have as a coach... Just like using Scheyer as a 6th man--nothing like bringing a top-flight marksman off your bench to get your opponent sweating bullets... This is like playing chess with a couple of queens in reserve to pull out whenever you want...

And then there's King... And McClure [in the tradition of a John Smith, scrappy type injecting instant emotion onto the floor]... Holy moly! We're deep, and using that depth!

...Now... What were we complaining about again?

[mr. synellinden]

And, to take it one step further... I like K's wisdom in starting his experienced veteran PG, then forcing his opponent off balance by spelling him with the more athletic, rapidly improving freshman... This is a wonderful dilemma to have as a coach... Just like using Scheyer as a 6th man--nothing like bringing a top-flight marksman off your bench to get your opponent sweating bullets... This is like playing chess with a couple of queens in reserve to pull out whenever you want...

And then there's King... And McClure [in the tradition of a John Smith, scrappy type injecting instant emotion onto the floor]... Holy moly! We're deep, and using that depth!

...Now... What were we complaining about again?

I think the whole point of this thread is getting lost on people. And I think part of the reason is because there are a lot of people with heightened sensitivities to any criticism of Duke basketball - players, coaches, program, recruiting, etc. (which I understand and respect) - and itchy trigger/posting fingers to staunch such criticism.

I don't think this thread was started as a means to criticize GP nor say that we should have to chose one PG vs another. The simple point, which may have been slightly obscured by the title of the post, is the exact same thing that I bet a lot of fans were thinking during the MD game and perhaps also during several of our games since the ACC season started. And that is simply this, do we think we are a better team when Nolan is in the game versus when GP is in the game (making the assumption that they rarely play together). That is what I've been thinking during the last several games. I don't see anything wrong with bringing that up on the board following a game where NS played his best game of the season. It doesn't mean anyone is complaining about Coach K's decision-making, or about Paulus's play or about anything else. It is not a suggestion that one player should start and the other should never see the court. It was a simple question about people's reactions to Nolan's progression. For me, it's reached the point where I am thinking that I like our team better when he is in the game. That doesn't mean I don't like our team when GP is in the game. It just means that as a fan I like the way the team plays offensively and defensively better with NS.

I understand why there are sensitivities about any perceived negativity, but some of the reactions on this thread make me think there is perhaps too much sensitivity and too much of a propensity to interpret things as negativity/criticism.

Repeating what I posted previously, regardles of whom starts and however the minutes get split, we are lucky to have two top flight point guards with complementary skills.

[jzp5079]

completely agree with the above post.

[stickdog]

Duke is 17-1 and 5-0 in ACC play. Since the Pitt game, Paulus has notched 21 assists, 10 steals and 2 blocks to just 7 turnovers. That's an incredible 4.4 assist+steal to turnover ratio. Paulus has hit 23 straight free throws, including 14-14 in ACC play. Paulus has now hit at least one three pointer in 17 of his last 18 games. Over his last seven games, Paulus has averaged 10.4 points, 3 assists, 1.6 steals and 0.3 blocks against just 1 turnover in less than 25 minutes of play per game.

[JBDuke]

This thread has served its purpose and is degenerating into player bashing, which is not allowed.

This thread is CLOSED.