Let me be the 1st...Nolan or Greg?

[heath_harshman4]

The premise is idiotic. Both guys are playing a lot. Who cares who starts? Nolan was playing great tonight and -- guess what -- K went with him down the stretch until he got hurt. That's all that matters.

thats not my point. my point is no matter what there is gonna be controversy. If David was to have 4-5 games of 10-15 pts and 6-8 rebs we would be talking about him taking over for Lance, which is much more realistic, but i was just trying to make an example.

and your right, coach K is gonna go with who is playing better down the stretch. Just like usually Scheyer is in down the stretch but tonight Hendo was. Its all in the flow of the game.

[Jumbo]

I rarely post on message boards. When I do post it's to start an interesting debate. And you can always count the spelling police. Just ask people who aren't Duke fans. You'll get your answer. And I wasn't attacking you for the usual posts. That is why I don't post. You post to spark a debate, but not just to flame. Tonight's game was an appropriate time for this post. Ease up message board police.

You're still missing the point, chief. This isn't an issue of who is better. I think Duke fans and non-Duke fans can formulate intelligent opinions on the topic. Your entire premise was about choosing one over the other. You haven't allowed for an alternative: Playing both guys, and distributing minutes based on who is playing more effectively on a given night, is the best move. Plus, isn't it great to be able to, you know, have multiple options and depth in a given game?

[heath_harshman4]

Well then lets worry about it when the issue is showing any tendency to "give away games"
I certainly wouldn't say that Paulus has been causing us to give away games...
Unless you've been watching some losses (or even close games) that I haven't
This team has been finishing people out on a consistent basis this year. Paulus has always been the PG in the game at the end of the game when we've done that. The man is not costing us games...

If you read my post you'll see that I never said he was costing us games. That would be stupid considering we are undefeated in ACC play.

Like you said THIS TEAM is finishing off teams this year, and as far as I can tell, lately THIS TEAM plays better with Nolan in. Not enough to where Greg should lose his starting job, but as I said earlier, Coach K will make the right decision based on how the game is going.

[Jumbo]

thats not my point. my point is no matter what there is gonna be controversy. If David was to have 4-5 games of 10-15 pts and 6-8 rebs we would be talking about him taking over for Lance, which is much more realistic, but i was just trying to make an example.

and your right, coach K is gonna go with who is playing better down the stretch. Just like usually Scheyer is in down the stretch but tonight Hendo was. Its all in the flow of the game.

Uh, Scheyer and Henderson were both in down the stretch -- just like almost every game this year. Coach K has finished virtually every close game with the small lineup of Paulus-Scheyer-Nelson-Henderson-Singler. Tonight, Nolan would've finished, but he got hurt. And Singler fouled out, so Thomas was in for him.

[allenmurray]

Maybe if Smith was starting instead of Paulus we'd be ranked in the top 4 in the country. Or be atop the ACC standangs. Or we'd be 16 - 1.

What? I can't hear you. Oh, we are number 4 in the country, in first place in the ACC and have a 16 - 1 record. Right. I guess our rotation is okay after all.

[heath_harshman4]

I think its been pretty clear to me its more of a debate of:

1) Has the younger aprentice over taken the 'master'?

and

2) Who should assume responsibility as our #1 man at the point?


arguing that there should be no change (and no one should care) is just one side of the spectrum.

EXACTLY!

[dukie8]

Clearly Smith is rapidly improving- but Freshman should not play that much or they can hit a wall. I expect both will play and continue to contribute. Paulus is a smart guy- he knows his limitations and having Smith come in and not letting him have to play all game is helping him to be fresher at the end. In the last few games, Paulus has played very well in the closing minutes.

why should freshmen "not play that much or they can hit a wall?" what was ohio state thinking playing all of their freshmen to the finals last year? why did duhon start as a freshman in '01? grant in '91?

[Tappan Zee Devil]

Boy, this is a tough group. You guys are spoiled rotten.
We just go to 17-1 and you-all are ready to crucify the point guard (and it isn't even yet Lent yet - we still wore green vestments this morning).

The box score shows Greg with 12 points 2 assists 1 turn over and 1 rebound, Nolan with 14 points, 1 assist 2 turn overs and 6 rebounds. Other than rebounds - a wash. They both played well - we got 26 points from the PG position - neither does that by themselves.
Loosen up and enjoy the season. Greg and Nolan are both assets with different strengths that K can use as he sees best at the time.

Dammit - can't you just enjoy the season?????????????????????????????
This thread is completely uncalled for!!!!

Jim
T '70

[heath_harshman4]

Uh, Scheyer and Henderson were both in down the stretch -- just like almost every game this year. Coach K has finished virtually every close game with the small lineup of Paulus-Scheyer-Nelson-Henderson-Singler. Tonight, Nolan would've finished, but he got hurt. And Singler fouled out, so Thomas was in for him.

Henderson played 33 mins while Scheyer had 28 and I think we can both agree K wanted the offense going through Nelson and Hendo down the stretch.

[dukie8]

Paulus has 12 points in 19 minutes and Smith has 14 points in 20. Smith pulled down 6 boards and they both hit all their throws. Both played pretty well. Paulus did his damage in the first few minutes and at the end- Smith in the middle. I am not advocating Paulus over Smith- Smith gives something Paulus does not- but both played well tonight at different moments.

i don't know how you can describe paulus as having played well last night. he took several bad shots down the lane where he was completely out of control and at least 2 of his fouls were very ill-advised (the foul on a break for a 3-point play and the foul on vasquez when vasquez went to the floor). moreover, due to his defensive deficiencies, nelson too often has to cover the other team's pg (like tonight), which takes him away from the basket where we need him rebounding. this was not one of his better nights.

[DukeHoopsGuru]

Maybe if Smith was starting instead of Paulus we'd be ranked in the top 4 in the country. Or be atop the ACC standangs. Or we'd be 16 - 1.

What? I can't hear you. Oh, we are number 4 in the country, in first place in the ACC and have a 16 - 1 record. Right. I guess our rotation is okay after all.

I guess playing for March isn't important? You're right, Duke is 16-1 so does it reall matter right now? No it doesn't. But giving the starting nod and some more minutes will make this team that much better come March. That is my point. I never said Greg shouldn't play. I never said Greg sucks. What I asked was do you think Nolan should start to take some of Greg's minutes along w/ the starting point guard spot?

By no means do I think Nolan is a finished product. Hell, the kid didn't even play the PG position in high school. But you can't teach his athleticism. And unfortunately for Greg, he doesn't have Nolan's athleticism.

In my opinion, this team will be better off come tourney time if Nolan starts becoming the team's #1 PG. That is it.

[dukelifer]

why should freshmen "not play that much or they can hit a wall?" what was ohio state thinking playing all of their freshmen to the finals last year? why did duhon start as a freshman in '01? grant in '91?

Duhon started 10 games as a Freshman. As for Ohio State- if not for their senior against Tenn- their season would have ended well before the final four. Oden had 2 buckets that game.

[dukelifer]

i don't know how you can describe paulus as having played well last night. he took several bad shots down the lane where he was completely out of control and at least 2 of his fouls were very ill-advised (the foul on a break for a 3-point play and the foul on vasquez when vasquez went to the floor). moreover, due to his defensive deficiencies, nelson too often has to cover the other team's pg (like tonight), which takes him away from the basket where we need him rebounding. this was not one of his better nights.

Sure he had a tough time guarding a bigger Vasquez - but c'mon- 12 points- 2 assists - 4 steals! and only 1 turnover against a very good defensive team and 4 for 4 down the stretch ain't stinking up the joint.

[houstondukie]

We're 17-1, 1st place in the ACC, #3 in the country...why fix it if it ain't broke?

And why does everyone think Paulus had a bad game tonight? The turnover at the end of the game was a bad play, but that was his only turnover. He had 12 points (2/3 from 3pt) and 4 steals.

Each player knows his role on the team and I feel changing them this far into the season could only hurt our team.

In my opinion, the question of who starts at point next year is more intriguing.

[dukie8]

Duhon started 10 games as a Freshman. As for Ohio State- if not for their senior against Tenn- their season would have ended well before the final four. Oden had 2 buckets that game.

i'm not sure if you are serious because you are not making much sense. duhon played 1085 minutes as a freshman. to give you some idea how many that was, he played 1229, 1188, 1311 his next 3 years. all of duhon's minutes his freshman year makes your belief that a freshman can "hit a wall" if he "plays too many minutes" look silly.

ohio state had conley starting at pg the entire season and oden starting every game he wasn't hurt but, according to you, freshmen hit a wall when they play too many minutes. ohio state rode those 2 all the way to the finals. btw, the fact that someone else had a good game during the season is completely irrelevant to the fact that, according to you, those 2 should have hit a wall. you didn't either bother responding to the grant example. if you want more, there are plenty. ever hear of a guy named carmelo?

just to be clear, there is no such thing as a freshman hitting a wall because he played too many minutes.

[dukie8]

We're 17-1, 1st place in the ACC, #3 in the country...why fix it if it ain't broke?

And why does everyone think Paulus had a bad game tonight? The turnover at the end of the game was a bad play, but that was his only turnover. He had 12 points (2/3 from 3pt) and 4 steals.

Each player knows his role on the team and I feel changing them this far into the season could only hurt our team.

In my opinion, the question of who starts at point next year is more intriguing.

that mentality is the same mentality that people had at the end of december last year when we were in the top 5 and clearly there were things wrong with the team. don't get me wrong, there are A LOT of things going well for this team and iit has been a true pleasure watching it develop. however, it definitely isn't perfect and everyone wants to minimize the chances for an early exit in march. how to handle the pg position with nolan coming on is a legitimate issue to bat around on message boards at this point.

[dukelifer]

i'm not sure if you are serious because you are not making much sense. duhon played 1085 minutes as a freshman. to give you some idea how many that was, he played 1229, 1188, 1311 his next 3 years. all of duhon's minutes his freshman year makes your belief that a freshman can "hit a wall" if he "plays too many minutes" look silly.

ohio state had conley starting at pg the entire season and oden starting every game he wasn't hurt but, according to you, freshmen hit a wall when they play too many minutes. ohio state rode those 2 all the way to the finals. btw, the fact that someone else had a good game during the season is completely irrelevant to the fact that, according to you, those 2 should have hit a wall. you didn't either bother responding to the grant example. if you want more, there are plenty. ever hear of a guy named carmelo?

just to be clear, there is no such thing as a freshman hitting a wall because he played too many minutes.

You asked why did Duhon start- and I simply said he started only 10 games.

As for the Freshman Wall- well I guess we have a difference of opinion- I say some players hit it- and I have seen it with Duke players- but maybe it is independent of the number of minutes- I am not sure how you know that- though. If Nolan Smith is Carmelo Anthony then I think K is making a huge mistake not playing him more.

[devildeac]

This is kind of unbelievable. We just got 7/13 FG, 3/5 3PT, 9/9 FT, 4 rebounds, 3A, 3TO, 4 PF and 5 Steals from our point guard(s) combined in an incredible comeback W and folks are complaining. Those are JWill type #s and I would be ecstatic with stats approaching those game after game. I guess the A:TO was not good enough. Sheesh.

[dukelifer]

i'm not sure if you are serious because you are not making much sense. duhon played 1085 minutes as a freshman. to give you some idea how many that was, he played 1229, 1188, 1311 his next 3 years. all of duhon's minutes his freshman year makes your belief that a freshman can "hit a wall" if he "plays too many minutes" look silly.

ohio state had conley starting at pg the entire season and oden starting every game he wasn't hurt but, according to you, freshmen hit a wall when they play too many minutes. ohio state rode those 2 all the way to the finals. btw, the fact that someone else had a good game during the season is completely irrelevant to the fact that, according to you, those 2 should have hit a wall. you didn't either bother responding to the grant example. if you want more, there are plenty. ever hear of a guy named carmelo?

just to be clear, there is no such thing as a freshman hitting a wall because he played too many minutes.

As for Duke Freshman point guards who played a lot possibly hitting a wall- check out Hurley's performances in late March in his Freshman year. 0-9 against UConn, 0-2 against Arkansas and 0-3 against UNLV. So maybe at least 1 Freshman in the history of college hoops hit a wall because he played too much.

[Exiled_Devil]

I guess playing for March isn't important? You're right, Duke is 16-1 so does it reall matter right now? No it doesn't. But giving the starting nod and some more minutes will make this team that much better come March. That is my point. I never said Greg shouldn't play. I never said Greg sucks. What I asked was do you think Nolan should start to take some of Greg's minutes along w/ the starting point guard spot?

By no means do I think Nolan is a finished product. Hell, the kid didn't even play the PG position in high school. But you can't teach his athleticism. And unfortunately for Greg, he doesn't have Nolan's athleticism.

In my opinion, this team will be better off come tourney time if Nolan starts becoming the team's #1 PG. That is it.

So, I can agree that Nolan is better than expected. I can even see a plausible argument for him being better than Greg - but you haven't made that yet, except for saying "look at the game" I saw an experience point gaurd start strong and finish strong, take away 4 times, and score close to the points of a freshman phenom. Paulus may not be as spectacular, but he produces.

Here are two things to consider: first, leadership is important, and as far as I can see, Demarcus and Greg are the leaders of this team. They are the most seasoned starters, and Coach K has a strong history of valuing experience.
Second, I don't have the numbers, but look at the cumulative +/- regarding Nolan and Greg - that could tell you who makes the rest of the team better.

Finally, I'm excited about Nolan's progress. And excited about Greg's steady play. I think that pitting them up against each other in our fantasy-fan discussions is useless and unfortunate. We are playing incredibly well. They are both contributing well, and fairly equally. UGh. I can't believe you are bringing this up as anything other than an interesting idea.
Exiled