Duke MBB vs. Clemson Post-Game Thread

[jzp5079]

I love the way the team played tonight. This is the most determined and tough bunch of kids that I have seen at Duke in a long time. We were up against it in the rebounding area and had to make it up in turnover differential and we did. Their poor free throw shooting heped us as well and ours was pretty good tonight. We also saw some zone toward the end and it was effective as used.

It is hard to single one guy out, there were so many good ones tonight. Even with that said, Nelson had a magnificent game tonight. Very efficient 24 points, terrific defense and no forcing of shots. Probably very low turnovers for him as well.

Behind him was Singler with a really excellent game. He was asked to go against much bigger players and held his own. I know he was in double figures and forced some turnovers and made an excellent block when things were close.

Henderson used his great athletic ability to score consistently and forced Clemson to foul him. Great game from him as well.

Nolan Smith showed me a lot tonight. He still makes a few freshman mistakes, but he has the quickness to guard their point guard and can finish in transition.

Scheyer had an excellent overall game. He cooled off in the second half but was still contributing in so many ways.

Paulus had a stinker of a first half but came on to score well and handle the ball fairly well in the second with a nice pass of the inbound for a two when we needed it. He really needs to value the ball more and needs to adjust his game to avoid the silly turnovers. As a junior, he should be getting out of the unforced turnover.

Thomas has a way to go to get back and McClure played well but was up against a big size differential so didn't get as many minutes tonight.

If I am correct, we move up to a #3 ranking and move ahead of UNC. That will stick in their craw.

were not a top 3 team. we have the potential to upset a top 3 team, but were not. Clemson's not even a top 25 team... (in reality, no what they were ranked at the time)

[dukelifer]

were not a top 3 team. we have the potential to upset a top 3 team, but were not. Clemson's not even a top 25 team... (in reality, no what they were ranked at the time)

Yesterday Duke played very well against and very good opponent. Clemson is definitely a top 25 team- they have the parts to be very good- excellent guards- long big men and a powerful inside force in Booker. If Mays can be 100% with that hand- they will be dangerous even if they shoot free throws as badly as they do. But Duke is not an elite team yet because they are very shaky away from CIS. But the only way for them to keep out of that top 3 spot now is to lose and I don't expect them to try to do that. There are two very tough road games coming up. Both will be close- Maryland, in particular, is feeling pretty good about themselves. Enjoy this win because the games start getting harder with back-to-back trips on the road. Each night is going to be a battle for this team- but with each win- they will get better.

[jjasper0729]

I liked the defensive intensity from Lance last night. He was in control on defense (got a couple of iffy calls, but that's how the ball bounces sometimes) and was able to get his hands in to create some turnovers for points the other way. I agree, if he can get those close in shots to fall, that would be awesome and he could take a little pressure off the perimeter like Fraschilla was saying during the game (loved fraschilla last night. very good at breaking down the plays)

as for TK. i think it's more to do with th ematchups we had on the floor. he's big for a wing, but probably not big enough to handle their bigs and their wings/points are too quick for him. just the way the matchups break down

[Devilsfan]

Aren't they coachable? Rest of the team played great but Taylors on too short of a leash!

[Papa John]

were not a top 3 team. we have the potential to upset a top 3 team, but were not. Clemson's not even a top 25 team... (in reality, no what they were ranked at the time)

We're a top 5/6/7 team, depending on which set of rankings you're looking at... Of course, Clemson actually is a top-25 team, according to what I read... These subjective views of what we all "think" are largely meaningless and irrelevant--about as irrelevant as those rankings that will, indeed, have us in the top-3/4 come Monday...

[jimsumner]

"Rest of the team played great but Taylors on too short of a leash!"

Yes, cause gosh darnit, Duke could actually be good if TK played more.

Look, I understand that criticizing the coach is par-for-the-course when a team is struggling. But Duke is 15-1, ranked in the top five, and coming off a tough, hard-fought, 13-point win against a nationally-ranked team and people want to complain that the playing time isn't being distributed to their liking.

Last night wasn't a good match-up for TK. The game plan was to attack defensively and offensively, pressure the ball on defense, go aggressively to the hoop on offense. Not the best game for him to get major minutes and the coaching staff recognized that. Has nothing to do with leashes, a lot to do with the proper utilization of resources.

[SMO]

"Rest of the team played great but Taylors on too short of a leash!"

Yes, cause gosh darnit, Duke could actually be good if TK played more.

Look, I understand that criticizing the coach is par-for-the-course when a team is struggling. But Duke is 15-1, ranked in the top five, and coming off a tough, hard-fought, 13-point win against a nationally-ranked team and people want to complain that the playing time isn't being distributed to their liking.

Last night wasn't a good match-up for TK. The game plan was to attack defensively and offensively, pressure the ball on defense, go aggressively to the hoop on offense. Not the best game for him to get major minutes and the coaching staff recognized that. Has nothing to do with leashes, a lot to do with the proper utilization of resources.

I thought his 2 turnovers in 2-3 minutes were great and coach should have kept him in...I'm a big King fan but bloody hell, let's give it a rest. I think a lot of people on this board are more upset that he didn't play than he is!

[LIVE4BBALL]

Yes, watching TK in the game last night, he never got comfortable. Before one in bound play, he kept looking back to the bench for direction rather than knowing, or feeling where he should be - the in bound play resulted in a Clemson lay up

Lance looked like he was getting winded very quickly - wonder if the upper respiratory problem is still lingering

Paulus did seem to play pretty poorly in the first half, but it the turning point in the second half seemed to happen when he drove and got a lay-up, and then made the steal and lay-up. During one break, he ran over to the bench and got a towel, and was working his hand like there was a problem - anyone else notice that?

Nothing to add that others haven't, Jon's spurt in the first half was awesome, especially driving the lane and scoring over 2-3 bigs. Clemson got the message and kept very close to him after that.

[WheatDevil]

'Sounds like TK has filled the void in many fan's hearts that was left when Marty's season ended.

[Bryan]

The boxscore shows King with 2 minutes, 1 missed shot (a 3), 2 turnovers and 1 foul. As others have pointed out this game created difficult match-ups for him. I think, though, that he needs to play in the second half in games like this, even if his first half performance isn't effective. He's too good a player to get only two minutes. He was played last night as if he's a situational sub rather than a regular member of the rotation.

Duke will play teams in the NCAA tournament with big guys like Clemson's and the chances of winning will be much better if King has some experience in playing against good big guys, since Singler may get in foul trouble in those games.

[mpj96]

Thought Lance had one of his better games though his stat line won't reflect it. Played decent help defense, moved better without the ball than I've ever seen him. Still a long long way for him to go but tonight he was mentally into the game and active on defense.

This was Lance's best game that I have seen. Particularly his play in the first half.

[tbyers11]

Duke will play teams in the NCAA tournament with big guys like Clemson's and the chances of winning will be much better if King has some experience in playing against good big guys, since Singler may get in foul trouble in those games.

King is not a "big" guy that will ever be guarding a player like Mays or Booker for extended periods of time. If his foot heals according to the schedule that has been stated, it is much more likely that Zoubek would get 10 minutes a game guarding these players in the future.

Getting King (either our 8th or 9th man) experience for future games is important. But is it more important than winning the Clemson game at hand. Despite the final margin of victory, this game was very much in doubt with 5-6 minutes to play and as pointed out above King didn't match up well defensively with Clemson and didn't play well in the minutes that he was in.

[mpj96]

the man of the match goes to K for switching to the 2-3 zone. that broke the game open IMO

That was a great call. Timed perfectly as Oglesbee was riding the bench for that stretch and Clemson couldn't bust the zone.

My MOTM is split right now between Thomas, Singler, Smith and Henderson. And I'm still feeling guilty not to have Nelson on this list.

I don't think we're better than UNC this year so far. But I do think we played much better defense against Clemson last night than UNC played against them. We did have home court advantage though . . .

[mpj96]

4) Where was the "Go to hell Carolina" chant in the waning minutes, especially in light of today's outcomes?

For the record, Go to hell Carolina, go to hell!

It may have not been audible on TV but the Crazies chanted it at the end of the game.

[DukeDevilDeb]

Points that may or may not need to be made:

1) Clemson is a very solid team this year. Booker is indeed a beast, although to respond to an earlier post, I question his NBA future somewhat (at least in terms of jumping this year). He's a bit smallish for the NBA 4, but he's strong enough to compensate for it in college. On a related point, agreed on all accounts about Purnell. He's my favorite ACC coach outside of K and Leitao (went to UVA for law school).

2). Our trapping D in the first half was reminiscent of the Carolina game in 2001, the first big game after Boozer went down. With Casey starting, we went to the backcourt trap with Shane and it worked beautifully. What a good job preventing Booker from taking over the game. K clearly learned his lesson against Pitt.

3) I was a little surprised that we didn't look for Kyle to put the ball on the floor more against the big men. Considering that he's at a disadvantage on the defensive end, you'd think we'd want to exploit his quickness mathcup on the other end. Instead, he seems to be content to pick and pop. Now, granted, 3-7 for 3 is not too shabby and he has hit some BIG shots on that play this year. But even though he's not really a go-to scorer putting the ball on the floor yet, considering that he's often being guarded by a bigger guy (Booker), wouldn't we want to exploit that, especially to try to get him in foul trouble? Jumbo made this point w/r/t to Blair in the Pitt game, and I was hoping we'd see it a bit more tonight. I mean, I'm nitpicking here obviously. That and Greg's shooting slump are my only real criticisms tonight. Considering the competition, I think this is about as good as we've looked all year.

4) Where was the "Go to hell Carolina" chant in the waning minutes, especially in light of today's outcomes?

For the record, Go to hell Carolina, go to hell!

I don't know whether you were at the game or watching/listening to it, but the Crazies (bless their souls) were chanting GTH,C over and over again... some of us upstairs were as well. It's just that then plays in the game would happen, and they would cheer in response to them. But don't worry, it was there!

[Bryan]

King is not a "big" guy that will ever be guarding a player like Mays or Booker for extended periods of time. If his foot heals according to the schedule that has been stated, it is much more likely that Zoubek would get 10 minutes a game guarding these players in the future.

Getting King (either our 8th or 9th man) experience for future games is important. But is it more important than winning the Clemson game at hand. Despite the final margin of victory, this game was very much in doubt with 5-6 minutes to play and as pointed out above King didn't match up well defensively with Clemson and didn't play well in the minutes that he was in.

If King is in the game he will likely be guarding one of the other teams two biggest players, so at least in that sense he's a big man. I agree the game yesterday was in doubt until the last few minutes. If King had struggled for 2+ minutes in the second half the way he did in the first it might have swung the result. I still think King is good enough and his development is important enough to Duke going deep in the NCAA's this year that it's worth risking a bad couple minutes from him, even if it does cost Duke one ACC game somewhere along the way. When King has a good stretch he adds a lot to the team and I think they need to get him some experience against Duke's best opponents and give him a chance to recover quickly from stretches like he had in the first half last night.

[jzp5079]

We're a top 5/6/7 team, depending on which set of rankings you're looking at... Of course, Clemson actually is a top-25 team, according to what I read... These subjective views of what we all "think" are largely meaningless and irrelevant--about as irrelevant as those rankings that will, indeed, have us in the top-3/4 come Monday...

your exactly right. I just wasn't impressed with their composure on the road. Decision making under pressure was terrible for the Tigers. Don't get me wrong - we haven't had a better night as far as forcing turnover's against quality opponents, but I think this is kind of game that exposes a team ranked in the 20's like Clemson.

[Saratoga2]

your exactly right. I just wasn't impressed with their composure on the road. Decision making under pressure was terrible for the Tigers. Don't get me wrong - we haven't had a better night as far as forcing turnover's against quality opponents, but I think this is kind of game that exposes a team ranked in the 20's like Clemson.

With a 14 rebound deficiency, Duke needed to win the turnover battle and did just that. We also needed to win the free throw battle and did that as well. Finally, we needed to win the shooting margin battle and we did that and more of our shots were 3 pointers. That gave us the win.

When we turned up the defensive pressure after a made basket or free throw, Clemson had great difficulty getting the ball inside and they turned the ball over repeatedly. But our defense didn't do nearly as well when Clemson rebounded off a missed shot. Then they were able to push the ball and get a lot of easy opportunities off the break.

Duke plays a lot with the floor spread wise with Scheyer and sometimes Henderson or Markie in the corner. That forces the opponent to shade out to cover our 3 point shooters. It also freed up the middle for dribble penetration by Henderson, Markie and Smith. On the other hand, that leaves us spread out when we miss the shot with only two guards able to get back and play defense on the break. Paulus took some really quick 3's that resulted in fast break opportunities for Clemson. Scheyer also was cold in the second half, and the rebounds from those shots also resulted in some fast break opportunities.

I am not sure how to deal with the lack of size for rebounding and our spread offense. It appears we could benefit from more patience shooting but beyond that I see nothing that I could recommend.

[3rd Dukie]

"Rest of the team played great but Taylors on too short of a leash!"

Yes, cause gosh darnit, Duke could actually be good if TK played more.

Look, I understand that criticizing the coach is par-for-the-course when a team is struggling. But Duke is 15-1, ranked in the top five, and coming off a tough, hard-fought, 13-point win against a nationally-ranked team and people want to complain that the playing time isn't being distributed to their liking.

Last night wasn't a good match-up for TK. The game plan was to attack defensively and offensively, pressure the ball on defense, go aggressively to the hoop on offense. Not the best game for him to get major minutes and the coaching staff recognized that. Has nothing to do with leashes, a lot to do with the proper utilization of resources.

I think this is absolutely correct. I feel strongly that, as an earlier poster said, King's playing time will be matchup-driven. As long as he works his tail off in practice, he'll get his PT when appropriate to the overall game plan. Let me also say that I underestimated King's attitude and overall contribution before the season started. I was concerned he would be somewhat of a prima dona, and he has been anything BUT that.

I also think Jim is right in his sarcasm about why K's decisions are being challenged. (At least I think it was sarcasm.) I might be wrong here, but I'm thinking K may have been down this road a time or two before. When we are 15-1, I really don't care who has played how much. Would we be 16-0 if he had played more? I sorta doubt it.

[Patrick Yates]

By troika, I mean King, McClure, and Thomas. I think Zoubs is different, in that he is a true Big, and can only guard, and be guarded by, other bigs. The troika can guard wings or bigs and vice versa.

Personally, I would like King to play more, but it is hard to argue with K's apparant strategy of going with the hot hand. And, it is pretty obvious that Hot Hand has little to do with offensive production, because King on a bad day is ahead of McClure on O, and probably Thomas as well. K is playing whoever is playing well that day.

McClure is the most consistent, and while his effort and intensity are spotless, he is at or near his ceiling. Thomas probably has the most upside, and King can be a deadly assasin. But, if Thomas plays as well as he did yesterday, at least in the first half, it is hard not to play him. He can D up true posts, and provide desparately needed rebounding. If he brings that to the table every game, he will play more, and King less, as the season wears on. Frankly, we need D and rebounding more than another scorer, because it is pretty obvious that the rest of the guys can put up enough points to win any game.

If one or more of the top 6-7 is cold, then King becomes more of a necessity. But, that is unlikely given that the others seem to be rounding into offensive form. So, King will probably get some minutes going forward, but it looks like the light may be comming on for Lance. He needs to finish plays, but he can contribute by playing defense and rebounding. We really don't need much else at this point. He can still improve, a lot, but efforts like yesterday make us a different team.

As well as we played yesterday, I do have one quibble. Our blocking out needs to drastically improve. I accept that we will be out rebounded most nights. Our lack of interior size all but dictates that end result. But, the guys on the court need to block out better, to cut down on the negative margin. Only Scheyer really blocks out well regularly. Singler is great at blocking out, but he forgets to do it sometimes. Everybody, excepting the PG, needs to put a body on someone when the shot goes up. Our continuing failure to do so allows the opponents to crash the board, where their superior height spells doom for us.

Now, Clemson would have out rebounded us yesterday, no matter what. But, with a little more effort and execution on blocking out, the margin would have been smaller. It is really the only thing that we can improve on going forward. It needs to improve. Smaller guys can block out bigger guys. It just isn't happening for us yet.

Patrick Yates