10 Duke Greats

[Uncle Drew]

After the discussion on the post about pre-Coach K players I'd like some feedback and suggestions. My plan is to do a painting (now that the Christmas rush is over.) entitled "Foundations", and have it be a montage of ten GREAT Duke basketball players from back in the day to now. Originally when I got the idea I had planned to do the simple thing and paint the Duke retired jersey players in action. But with all the points made about players from yesteryear I'm not sure that would be the truly fair thing to do.


When I am done with the painting (and in case anyone is wondering I am VERY good) I plan to donate it to either the athletic department to raise money. Or send to Coach K to donate to the Duke Children's Hospital to make prints of and sell. I think 3 players Laettner, Dawkins and Gminkski are automatic selections, because well, they are my favorites and I'm doing the painting. As for players 7-10 I'd like feedback on whom else should go on the work of art. They don't necessarily have to have their jersey retired. And this isn't based on the popularity contest the polls a few months ago were. I also don't require the player to have graduated yet, so any of the present NBA guys who have yet to get their degree can be considered as well. I do want three players (at least) from the pre-Coach K era other than the G-man. I'll leave it up to posters to pick who I use.


Finally with all these players photos can be hard to come by, especially ones from back in the day. I don't know the legal ramifications for using certain pictures to paint from. So input from any legal guru's would be beneficial as well. If anyone out there has some good action shots of past Duke greats they could e-mail please let me know too. (NBA action shots are fine too as I can easily change the jersey back to a Duke uniform.) Thank you for any input and assistance.


William G. Latta

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

After the discussion on the post about pre-Coach K players I'd like some feedback and suggestions. My plan is to do a painting (now that the Christmas rush is over.) entitled "Foundations", and have it be a montage of ten GREAT Duke basketball players from back in the day to now. Originally when I got the idea I had planned to do the simple thing and paint the Duke retired jersey players in action. But with all the points made about players from yesteryear I'm not sure that would be the truly fair thing to do.


When I am done with the painting (and in case anyone is wondering I am VERY good) I plan to donate it to either the athletic department to raise money. Or send to Coach K to donate to the Duke Children's Hospital to make prints of and sell. I think 3 players Laettner, Dawkins and Gminkski are automatic selections, because well, they are my favorites and I'm doing the painting. As for players 7-10 I'd like feedback on whom else should go on the work of art. They don't necessarily have to have their jersey retired. And this isn't based on the popularity contest the polls a few months ago were. I also don't require the player to have graduated yet, so any of the present NBA guys who have yet to get their degree can be considered as well. I do want three players (at least) from the pre-Coach K era other than the G-man. I'll leave it up to posters to pick who I use.


Finally with all these players photos can be hard to come by, especially ones from back in the day. I don't know the legal ramifications for using certain pictures to paint from. So input from any legal guru's would be beneficial as well. If anyone out there has some good action shots of past Duke greats they could e-mail please let me know too. (NBA action shots are fine too as I can easily change the jersey back to a Duke uniform.) Thank you for any input and assistance.


William G. Latta

It's going to be hard to narrow down to only ten players! Considering that the neame of the is to be "Foundations," I'd vote for Heyman and Mullins to be added to the list. Their arrival on the scene following the hiring of Vic Bubas certainly mark the beginning of a national program. I think Gene Banks should be included as the first outstanding Afro American, another landmark in Duke basketball history. If landmarks are criteria, then JJ would be on the list because of the records he set.

[cbfx3]

I vote for Tate Armstrong.. I remember a game program that had a cool picture of him on the cover (it may have been a painting) I freehanded a rendition of that picture as a kid.. wish I still had that picture (and all of those old programs) Tinkerbell has to be in it too

[jma4life]

I think you should put G. Hill on- besides the fact that he deserves to be there, the shot of him catching the alley oop against kansas in 91 would make for a great action shot.

[Duke09]

Pre-K: Groat, Heyman, Gman, and Vega
K-era: Dawkins, Laettner, Battier, G. Hill, and Jason Williams

There is one spot left. For me its a toss up between Ferry, Banks, Hurley, Spanarkel. Hurley has titles but i already have laettner and hill from those teams. Banks helped put Duke back on the map with Foster. and for some reason I like Spanarkel, even though I never saw him play. Maybe its just the name.

[Uncle Drew]

I like the suggestions so far. But while pondering things in my head I thought about a player like C. B. Claiborne, the first African American player at Duke. I was recently told stories about Mr Heyman being slandered and slurred for being Jewish during games. And while I think he is most definitely a lock to be one of the pre-Coach K guys. I was wondering about opinions on a player important for reasons other than being necessarily the best. (No I'm not thinking of adding Abdelnaby, because he was the first Duke player of Arabic descent.) I'm not an activist seeking to improve relations with Duke and Durham. But the importance of players such as Mr. Claiborne paved the way for talent regardless of race to play at Duke and for us all to enjoy. And when you think of the title of the painting "Foundations", well the guy kind of fits, though I really don't know how good a player he was.


Then I thought about someone like Bill Werber. "Bill who"? Yeah that's what I said too, but he was Dukes first All-American back in 1930. We as Duke fans are proud of the tradition of great players and the line of All-Americans started with him. But the more I think about it the less I like the idea of going that far back. I loathe UNC for trying to claim a national title in 1924 (well for that and MANY other reasons!) and citing an All-American that far back would feel like I was doing the same thing they do. But the more I think about it, I think it should be 10 players as well as Coaches B and K. (Sorry Mr. Foster but you shouldn't have bolted when I was 9!)

[nicktonyg22]

Pre-K: G-man, Banks, Groat, Heyman
K-Era: JJ, Battier, G. Hill, Laettner, Dawkins, Hurley

Wow. That was really tough. Spanarkel, JWill and many others are definitely on the fringe of making that list. I feel that with Hurley's assist record and JJ's scoring record, its pretty necessary to have them represented. Plus I personally think that Hurley doesn't get nearly enough recognition for those championships in comparison to Laettner and Hill. My 2 cents.

[Jim3k]

Well, Werber is a very intriguing choice. Not only was he an all-American basketball player, he had a remarkable major league baseball career. He's a North Carolinian and is (when I last looked) the oldest major league player, at 107 and in a retirement home in Charlotte.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Werber

[monkey]

Well, Werber is a very intriguing choice. Not only was he an all-American basketball player, he had a remarkable major league baseball career. He's a North Carolinian and is (when I last looked) the oldest major league player, at 107 and in a retirement home in Charlotte.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Werber

Not quite 107 but otherwise correct - believe he is about to turn 100 - which corresponds to his graduation circa 1930

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Not quite 107 but otherwise correct - believe he is about to turn 100 - which corresponds to his graduation circa 1930

Bill Werber's daughter lives in Durham and attends home games regularly with her husband whose dad was one of the original Iron Dukes. Dick Groat's daughter also lives in Durham and is a regular at the games. She married one of Bill Foster's assistants.

[Indoor66]

Dick Groat's daughter also lives in Durham and is a regular at the games. She married one of Bill Foster's assistants.

Might that be Lou Goetz?

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Might that be Lou Goetz?

Yes, that's right.

[Charles Wicker]

Johnny was the greatest IMHO. I saw Gene, Spinarkle, England, Gminsky, Maron or Marion, Jwill, Grant and others. But Johnny and his class catipulted the program to the status it has today. IMO.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Johnny was the greatest IMHO. I saw Gene, Spinarkle, England, Gminsky, Maron or Marion, Jwill, Grant and others. But Johnny and his class catipulted the program to the status it has today. IMO.

Heyman and Mullins provided the same jump into national prominence when Vic Bubas began building the program. Watching them play was like witnessing magic on the court. That magic began with the first team in the Final Four in 1963. As Coach Bubas built the program in the early to mid sixties, Duke began to play top teams like Michigan with their three stars (Bunting, Russell and Darden) and UCLA (one game in Cameron soon after the Michigan game). I don't disagree with what you said as much as I think it's important to include greats from the Bubas era. Duke fans began to expect excellence and a national presence in basketball during that time and continue to expect it now.

[Uncle Drew]

I hope Devil in the Blue Dress doesn't mind me posting this, but this is part of a private message she sent me in correspondence

..."I think many of the folks who post on this board are young enough that they may not appreciate (meaning understand and value) the significance of some of the earlier players. Their frame of reference is perhaps too narrow. How about a series of montages? The first one called, "Foundations" and focusing on the great pre K players. (Werber, Groat, Heyman, Mullins, Banks, etc.) The second could be called something like "Builders" (Dawkins, Ferry, Alarie, etc.) and include early K players. The third could be called "Legacy" and focus on more recent K players. You could also consider a montage of the coaches and assistants: Eddie Cameron, Gerry Gerard, Hal Bradley (who went to Texas), Vic Bubas, Chuck Dailey, Hubie Brown, Coach K"


I have to agree with her that my scope is WAY too narrow, and it is very difficult to pick and choose. And in a lot of ways there have been multiple eras than just pre and post Coach K. So it looks like I am going to have to either make my own canvas and do one HUGE painting or three paintings. The problem with doing one painting is I had hoped once donated prints could be made and sold to benefit the receiving party. There are limits to how big a painting can be and reduced in size when made into prints. (And still see details....Sistine Chapel for example.) So to cover all the bases I think I am going to have to do three paintings.


Foundations: Start of Duke and or Trinity basketball to 1972. 9 players and coaches Bubas. Heyman, Groat, Verga, C. B. Claiborne, Bill Werber, Ed Koffenberger, Mullins, Mike Lewis, Randy Denton.

Builders: 1976-1990. Coach Foster and Coach K. 8 players Gminski, Jim Spanarkel, Gene Banks, Johnny Dawkins, Mark Alarie, Danny Ferry, Tommy Amaker. This is where it gets tricky for me, deciding on one other player, Vince Taylor, Kenny Dennard, Jay Bilas, Quinn Snyder etc. I REALLY need some help deciding that last player.

Legacy: The era would be 1991 to present and would have Coach K and 9 other players. Laettner,G. Hill, Hurley, J. Williams, Boozer, Battier, S. Williams, JJ and Brand. Or maybe Dunnleavy instead of Brand? That's a hard pick, Mikey D was awesome against AZ in 2001. But Brand was player of the year in 1999.


So that is the tentative plan for now. Any suggestions as to better titles or the 8th player on the second painting feel free to add input. And anyone with action photos of the players mentioned can e-mail them to me at lattawill@yahoo.com. Also if you think one player should be dropped in favor of another deserving player feel free to say so. As stated this is a tentative plan.


Oh and does anyone remember Dan Meghar (sp)? He was a guy I think left over from the Foster era or maybe one of Coach K's 1st guys. Ask Jim Sumner for details. He was a Canadian and would bang with anyone who wanted a piece of him. I loved that guy, he took zero crap from anyone. I think he probably should have been a hockey player but was too tall.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I hope Devil in the Blue Dress doesn't mind me posting this, but this is part of a private message she sent me in correspondence

..."I think many of the folks who post on this board are young enough that they may not appreciate (meaning understand and value) the significance of some of the earlier players. Their frame of reference is perhaps too narrow. How about a series of montages? The first one called, "Foundations" and focusing on the great pre K players. (Werber, Groat, Heyman, Mullins, Banks, etc.) The second could be called something like "Builders" (Dawkins, Ferry, Alarie, etc.) and include early K players. The third could be called "Legacy" and focus on more recent K players. You could also consider a montage of the coaches and assistants: Eddie Cameron, Gerry Gerard, Hal Bradley (who went to Texas), Vic Bubas, Chuck Dailey, Hubie Brown, Coach K"


I have to agree with her that my scope is WAY too narrow, and it is very difficult to pick and choose. And in a lot of ways there have been multiple eras than just pre and post Coach K. So it looks like I am going to have to either make my own canvas and do one HUGE painting or three paintings. The problem with doing one painting is I had hoped once donated prints could be made and sold to benefit the receiving party. There are limits to how big a painting can be and reduced in size when made into prints. (And still see details....Sistine Chapel for example.) So to cover all the bases I think I am going to have to do three paintings.


Foundations: Start of Duke and or Trinity basketball to 1972. 9 players and coaches Bubas. Heyman, Groat, Verga, C. B. Claiborne, Bill Werber, Ed Koffenberger, Mullins, Mike Lewis, Randy Denton.

Builders: 1976-1990. Coach Foster and Coach K. 8 players Gminski, Jim Spanarkel, Gene Banks, Johnny Dawkins, Mark Alarie, Danny Ferry, Tommy Amaker. This is where it gets tricky for me, deciding on one other player, Vince Taylor, Kenny Dennard, Jay Bilas, Quinn Snyder etc. I REALLY need some help deciding that last player.

Legacy: The era would be 1991 to present and would have Coach K and 9 other players. Laettner,G. Hill, Hurley, J. Williams, Boozer, Battier, S. Williams, JJ and Brand. Or maybe Dunnleavy instead of Brand? That's a hard pick, Mikey D was awesome against AZ in 2001. But Brand was player of the year in 1999.


So that is the tentative plan for now. Any suggestions as to better titles or the 8th player on the second painting feel free to add input. And anyone with action photos of the players mentioned can e-mail them to me at lattawill@yahoo.com. Also if you think one player should be dropped in favor of another deserving player feel free to say so. As stated this is a tentative plan.


Oh and does anyone remember Dan Meghar (sp)? He was a guy I think left over from the Foster era or maybe one of Coach K's 1st guys. Ask Jim Sumner for details. He was a Canadian and would bang with anyone who wanted a piece of him. I loved that guy, he took zero crap from anyone. I think he probably should have been a hockey player but was too tall.

His name is Dan Meagher; he played 1982-85. You're right about his playing tough!

[Uncle Drew]

Someone named Rick sent me a message which I received via e-mail but couldn't respond to. But Rick, if you have photos of players in action from the G-Man era I'd love to see them. I can be contacted at the e-mail listed in my previous post. And thank you.

[Indoor66]

I hope Devil in the Blue Dress doesn't mind me posting this, but this is part of a private message she sent me in correspondence

..."I think many of the folks who post on this board are young enough that they may not appreciate (meaning understand and value) the significance of some of the earlier players. Their frame of reference is perhaps too narrow. How about a series of montages? The first one called, "Foundations" and focusing on the great pre K players. (Werber, Groat, Heyman, Mullins, Banks, etc.) The second could be called something like "Builders" (Dawkins, Ferry, Alarie, etc.) and include early K players. The third could be called "Legacy" and focus on more recent K players. You could also consider a montage of the coaches and assistants: Eddie Cameron, Gerry Gerard, Hal Bradley (who went to Texas), Vic Bubas, Chuck Dailey, Hubie Brown, Coach K"

I have to agree with her that my scope is WAY too narrow, and it is very difficult to pick and choose. And in a lot of ways there have been multiple eras than just pre and post Coach K. So it looks like I am going to have to either make my own canvas and do one HUGE painting or three paintings. The problem with doing one painting is I had hoped once donated prints could be made and sold to benefit the receiving party. There are limits to how big a painting can be and reduced in size when made into prints. (And still see details....Sistine Chapel for example.) So to cover all the bases I think I am going to have to do three paintings.


Foundations: Start of Duke and or Trinity basketball to 1972. 9 players and coaches Bubas. Heyman, Groat, Verga, C. B. Claiborne, Bill Werber, Ed Koffenberger, Mullins, Mike Lewis, Randy Denton.

Builders: 1976-1990. Coach Foster and Coach K. 8 players Gminski, Jim Spanarkel, Gene Banks, Johnny Dawkins, Mark Alarie, Danny Ferry, Tommy Amaker. This is where it gets tricky for me, deciding on one other player, Vince Taylor, Kenny Dennard, Jay Bilas, Quinn Snyder etc. I REALLY need some help deciding that last player.

Legacy: The era would be 1991 to present and would have Coach K and 9 other players. Laettner,G. Hill, Hurley, J. Williams, Boozer, Battier, S. Williams, JJ and Brand. Or maybe Dunnleavy instead of Brand? That's a hard pick, Mikey D was awesome against AZ in 2001. But Brand was player of the year in 1999.


So that is the tentative plan for now. Any suggestions as to better titles or the 8th player on the second painting feel free to add input. And anyone with action photos of the players mentioned can e-mail them to me at lattawill@yahoo.com. Also if you think one player should be dropped in favor of another deserving player feel free to say so. As stated this is a tentative plan.


Oh and does anyone remember Dan Meghar (sp)? He was a guy I think left over from the Foster era or maybe one of Coach K's 1st guys. Ask Jim Sumner for details. He was a Canadian and would bang with anyone who wanted a piece of him. I loved that guy, he took zero crap from anyone. I think he probably should have been a hockey player but was too tall.

You might consider adding Tom Connelly - he made the 1st shot in Duke Indoor stadium-vs Princeton, 1/9/1940.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

This project has caused me to get out a copy of Duke basketball records. There are so many categories... one caught my eye... triple-doubles. What a testimony to players who played exceptional games! Three players in Duke history have accomplished triple-doubles and each has done it only once.

Art Heyman 2/28/1963 vs. Virginia
21 points, 18 rebounds,10 assists

Gene Banks 01/09/1978 vs. Lehigh
13 points,12 rebounds, 11 assists

Shelden Williams 01/11/2006 vs. Maryland
19 points, 11 rebounds, 10 blocked shots

[blueprofessor]

Latta6970: "Builders: 1976-1990. Coach Foster and Coach K. 8 players Gminski, Jim Spanarkel, Gene Banks, Johnny Dawkins, Mark Alarie, Danny Ferry, Tommy Amaker. This is where it gets tricky for me, deciding on one other player, Vince Taylor, Kenny Dennard, Jay Bilas, Quinn Snyder etc. I REALLY need some help deciding that last player."
Tate Armstrong was one of Duke's lesser- heralded, great players. No offense to Bilas, but Jay was no better than the 5th best player(maybe 6th, considering Danny Ferry was the 6th man in 1985-86; Quin Snyder was a spot reserve on the team) on the 1986 Final Four team. In his career, Bilas played 127 games, 2,864 minutes, and had 56 assists,117 turnovers, 379 fouls,41 steals, 23 blocks, and 692 rebounds. He shot 65% from the line and 55.7% from the floor ,but took a highly selective(point-blank,mostly) 655 shots.Taylor was an excellent player ( All-ACC) and Snyder was a fine assists- maker.
Armstrong, however, was an outstanding all-star player on defense and offense who often was matched against the other team's best defender on offense,as well as the other team's best scorer on defense.He was All-ACC first team in 1976 (would have repeated in 1977 barring a season-ending injury--only 16 Duke players have been 1st team All-ACC 2 or more times); averaged 24 and 22 ppg, respectively, his last 2 years; and was,according to John Roth, one of Duke's greatest shooters of all time (51.9% career, as the marked man on 4 teams with a dismal 50--56 record--9 and 39 in ACC-- and 80% from the foul line).Not just a great shooter and defender, Armstrong tied the Cameron Indoor Stadium assists record with 12 in a game vs. Tennessee.There was no three-point shot in his career, but in one game(37 points against Maryland his junior year), 11 of his baskets were from beyond 19 feet. He would have made 1st team All-ACC again in 1977, but he sustained a season-ending injury in one of the truly heroic performances in Duke basketball history.In January of 1977,the senior Armstrong broke his wrist minutes into a game on the road against Virginia (Duke had lost 27 consecutive away- ACC games), continued to play the entire 45 minutes in an overtime win, and scored 33 points (31 after the injury). That ended his career at Duke.Through the Virginia win, he had led Duke to an 11-3 start;Duke would go 3-10 the rest of the year without him. He was the Art Heyman of the 1970s in talent, fire, and hustle, and he was voted best defender on his team for two seasons. His junior average of 24.2 was the highest since Verga's 26.1 ppg in 1967. Lefty Driesell called Tate "the best one-on-one player I've seen in this conference since David Thompson." He was drafted in the first round by the Chicago Bulls and won a gold medal in the Montreal (1976) Olympics for a US team coached by El Deano.