McRoberts

[DukeDevilDeb]

I liked Josh as a student very much; he was nice to interact with and was never in any danger of failing in my courses. I didn't like him much on Coach K court because I got the sense that he had so much more that he never put out on the floor... the polar opposite of Christian, Bobby, Shane, Grant, and on and on...

But I watched him sit in my class last fall semester after his back surgery. He could hardly sit still. The pain he experienced was substantial and wasn't something that was going away.

His NBA career will be fairly short... his back will see to that. So when people say he was wrong for going pro, I have to disagree. One more injury or surgery and he was likely out for good... he needed to grab his chance while he still could.

[Carlos]

Statistically speaking, McRoberts was just an average rebounder. His career average at Duke was only 6.5 rebounds per game. To compare:

Shelden: 9
Elton: 9
Laettner: 7.8
Carlos: 7
Ferry: 7
Cherokee: 6.7


So all our top big guys in the last 20 years, really, outrebounded Josh. That's not "A-one" rebounding. The guy was a good weakside shotblocker, a good outlet passer -- a good passer in general, had good springs, and was a decent rebounder. That's about it. Tried hard, I'm sure he's a good guy and all, but to me and many others was a major disappointment in several areas, physical and mental. I thought we'd miss him this year, and we might yet against big teams, but I like the team better as is.

I'm not sure you can make a case against his rebounding based simply on his career averages. He played two seasons, the first with one of the greatest rebounders in Duke history and the second in a year where the team played a more deliberate pace than Duke traditionally did in any of the years of those other players on your list. His numbers would suffer from both factors.

[ikiru36]

I'm not sure you can make a case against his rebounding based simply on his career averages. He played two seasons, the first with one of the greatest rebounders in Duke history and the second in a year where the team played a more deliberate pace than Duke traditionally did in any of the years of those other players on your list. His numbers would suffer from both factors.

Relatedly, if Carlos Boozer only averaged 7 rebounds at Duke, then 6.5 isn't necessarily a bad average in Coach K's systems because Carlos was definitely a very good rebounder (now turned pretty extraordinary!) There are many factors influencing this statistic making per game averages alone, devoid of context, not a very meaningful point of comparison between players on different teams playing different styles/tempos.

Josh was not a rebounding stud, perhaps (though there was the slow tempo as well as his other skills which drew him away from the basket more than a Boozer or Williams), but he was tall, fairly long, had springs pre-back injury, and had pretty good hands and instincts. From a pure skill perspective, the injury (and chemistry) questions aside, he would have been a great addition to our current team. (BTW, I agree with some others that, if he were reasonably pain-free, the chemistry issues would have been fine with him this year as he'd feel less pressure and LOVE our current style of play. In fact, coach K has plainly stated that Duke began installing this new offense and style last pre-season, only to be derailed by Greg's foot injury and other injuries which diminished our athleticism and depth.)

It doesn't yet seem like anyone can provide definitive proof of the extent of his back injury troubles but there's a great deal of anecdotal evidence that this may have been more problematic than was admitted to at the time. To me, the greatest evidence of Josh's back issues was how far he slipped in the NBA draft. Whatever his failures to step up at Duke, he was still All-ACC as a Sophomore. There's no way that a 6'10" kid of his varied abilities, while still only 20 years old, doesn't get drafted on potential in the early 20's by some team, unless there's a rumour/fact going around that he has a serious red flag. Given some of the head cases that have been drafted highly despite that form of red flag, my guess is that there was serious concern about his back.

While I can imagine someone handling their pain/frustration/disappointment with more maturity and joie de vivre than Josh perhaps managed, I certainly can't guarantee I'd have done any better as a 19/20 year old who only a year previous felt pretty assured of near boundless success playing the game which I loved. Not the easiest situation, especially in the national limelight of Duke.

I wish Josh all the best, and hope he recovers his full athleticism and joy playing the game of basketball. He still seems like a good kid/young man, whatever his struggles/shortcomings. I'm sad that he couldn't have had greater success for/with Duke but it clearly wasn't meant to be. May both he and Duke make the best of whatever lessons may be learned, going forward, and may we both have great successes!!!!!

Go Duke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dukie8]

It doesn't yet seem like anyone can provide definitive proof of the extent of his back injury troubles but there's a great deal of anecdotal evidence that this may have been more problematic than was admitted to at the time. To me, the greatest evidence of Josh's back issues was how far he slipped in the NBA draft. Whatever his failures to step up at Duke, he was still All-ACC as a Sophomore. There's no way that a 6'10" kid of his varied abilities, while still only 20 years old, doesn't get drafted on potential in the early 20's by some team, unless there's a rumour/fact going around that he has a serious red flag. Given some of the head cases that have been drafted highly despite that form of red flag, my guess is that there was serious concern about his back.

so you are blaming his drop in the draft due to unknown back issues and completely discounting the fact that every nba scout got to watch him on national tv every week for 2 years and saw that other than a dunk, he couldn't throw the ball in the ocean? people get drafted on "potential" after high school when it is all gray and fuzzy what a kid can do. not too many people get drafted on "potential" after 2 years of acc basketball, one of which involved him being the "go to" guy.

he had to have been examined before the draft and whatever is wrong with his back had to have been diagnosed. what is it? a herniated disk? a "bad back" is not a medical condition.

[dukie8]

According to his profile on ESPN, Josh McRobert' 2008 salary is $427,000.

http://scores.espn.go.com/nba/player...?playerId=3220

ick. for some reason i thought he scored a better deal. maybe i recall him signing a 2-year guarantee. at $427K/yr, after paying taxes and all of his minions, his leaving early looks right now to be a major disaster. at this rate, he might even clear a million before he is done. ouch.

[juise]

at this rate, he might even clear a million before he is done. ouch.

I don't think he has Boozer's potential, but 'Los made $425,000 and $563,679 in his first two seasons. I don't think anyone should write off Josh's career yet. I mean, compare his two years at Duke to Shav's three, keeping in mind that injury was common factor for the two.

[Uncle Drew]

I liked Josh as a student very much; he was nice to interact with and was never in any danger of failing in my courses. I didn't like him much on Coach K court because I got the sense that he had so much more that he never put out on the floor... the polar opposite of Christian, Bobby, Shane, Grant, and on and on...

But I watched him sit in my class last fall semester after his back surgery. He could hardly sit still. The pain he experienced was substantial and wasn't something that was going away.

His NBA career will be fairly short... his back will see to that. So when people say he was wrong for going pro, I have to disagree. One more injury or surgery and he was likely out for good... he needed to grab his chance while he still could.

As someone who had to return from my honeymoon in Europe with two torn disks. (We were stranded in a hotel in Rome for four days!) I can testify to the fact that back problems are debilitating. If you have never had a back problem you can't truly understand how every move you make uses some part of your back. And if that back is injured you are in constant pain. That may very well be the reason he decided to leave, the reason his draft status dropped so low etc.

I guess it's silly for us all to sit and speculate. And I really do understand those who feel like they never really "knew" him because of his early entry. I just wonder if he had left after winning a championship (a la Dunnleavy, Williams & Boozer) if sentiment would be the same. Granted I would have loved to see Brand, Maggette, Deng etc. stay another year or their full four years. But I have to say it's nice watching NBA highlights on ESPN and not having it only former UNC players.

[mapei]

Anyone who says Josh is the most disappointing recruit in memory has a very short memory, considering Shav's career at Duke. And, frankly, you can certainly make the argument that "the leading scorer in California HS history," as we are constantly reminded DeMarcus was, should be a more prolific scorer at Duke. Josh seems to be constantly denigrated on this board while DeMarcus is revered. I just don't see it. Here are some numbers from last season.

Points:
DN: 14.1
JM: 13.0

Rebounds:
DN: 5.4
JM: 7.9

Assists
DN: 2.0
JM: 3.5

Steals
DN: 1.3
JM: 1.2

Blocks
DN: 0.5
JM: 2.5

FG%
DN: .478
JM: .502

FT%
DN: .593
JM: .664

Josh was every bit as productive and valuable to the team as DeMarcus, arguably moreso. Both came in with lofty credentials. Neither turned out to be the kind of player that dominates games and saves the season - they haven't been JJ or Shane - but both have been productive players. To put one on a pedestal while constantly putting the other one down is not supported by the facts and is very unfair IMO.

[jma4life]

First of all, Demarcus was never the number one player in his class though he was a solid McDAA.

Secondly, Demarcus has stayed four years whereas McRoberts stayed for two seasons.

Finally, regardless of whether it is accurate, the perception is that McRoberts was a chemistry killer. I don't completely buy into that but that is the perception. And no one can deny that Demarcus is really trying to be a great leader this season.

Either way, I don't really think either of those guys should be criticized but the reasons that I just gave are probably why Josh receives more criticism than Demarcus- though again, neither really deserves much criticism.

[ikiru36]

so you are blaming his drop in the draft due to unknown back issues and completely discounting the fact that every nba scout got to watch him on national tv every week for 2 years and saw that other than a dunk, he couldn't throw the ball in the ocean? people get drafted on "potential" after high school when it is all gray and fuzzy what a kid can do. not too many people get drafted on "potential" after 2 years of acc basketball, one of which involved him being the "go to" guy.

he had to have been examined before the draft and whatever is wrong with his back had to have been diagnosed. what is it? a herniated disk? a "bad back" is not a medical condition.

Not denying that Josh slipped some due to his less than overwhelming (but still pretty darned good in areas other than offensive production) performance his Sophomore year. But I absolutely think that some team would've taken a flier on his "potential" by the end of the first round, if there wasn't some other undisclosed concern scaring them off. Maybe it wasn't an injury concern and he instead had a terrible attitude at workouts and in interviews.

Every predictive draft board I saw prior to draft day placed Josh between 15th and 25th or so, so when he slipped another 10+ spots further I tend to think there was some behind the scenes rumor/concern which impacted his status. I'm just guessing, and would love to know if anyone has inside information on why he slipped so far because it really was surprising. (He actually might have slipped much further still, but for his close friendship with Greg Oden making his pick a smart one for Portland even if he never played a minute.) Plenty of (tall) guys get drafted high when they are still complete projects at the offensive end. Josh was a major scorer in high school including out to 3 pt. range. Despite his disappointing failure to dominate offensively at Duke, he (as a young Sophomore- like 15 months younger than Hans-blah if I remember correctly) still shot 50%+ from the field, averaging 7.9 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 2.5 blocks and 1.2 steals (all at a slow tempo), earning all-ACC honors.

Not sure of the value of denigrating his accomplishments any more than is necessary, but if that is your prerogative, enjoy!

Best to you Josh!!!!!! Go Duke!!!!!!!!! Go Devils!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ugadevil]

First of all, Demarcus was never the number one player in his class though he was a solid McDAA.

Secondly, Demarcus has stayed four years whereas McRoberts stayed for two seasons.

Finally, regardless of whether it is accurate, the perception is that McRoberts was a chemistry killer. I don't completely buy into that but that is the perception. And no one can deny that Demarcus is really trying to be a great leader this season.

Either way, I don't really think either of those guys should be criticized but the reasons that I just gave are probably why Josh receives more criticism than Demarcus- though again, neither really deserves much criticism.

Also, if Josh went pro early because of his back and couldn't afford to wait any longer, the same can not be said for DeMarcus. He has also had an injury plagued career at Duke but he stuck it out and battled back from his injuries. He was determined to have a healthy full season of basketball, McRoberts wasn't as concerned with this.

[lavell12]

Also, if Josh went pro early because of his back and couldn't afford to wait any longer, the same can not be said for DeMarcus. He has also had an injury plagued career at Duke but he stuck it out and battled back from his injuries. He was determined to have a healthy full season of basketball, McRoberts wasn't as concerned with this.

that maybe true but Nelson also wouldn't have been drafted if he tried to go pro.

[dukie8]

Not denying that Josh slipped some due to his less than overwhelming (but still pretty darned good in areas other than offensive production) performance his Sophomore year. But I absolutely think that some team would've taken a flier on his "potential" by the end of the first round, if there wasn't some other undisclosed concern scaring them off. Maybe it wasn't an injury concern and he instead had a terrible attitude at workouts and in interviews.

Every predictive draft board I saw prior to draft day placed Josh between 15th and 25th or so, so when he slipped another 10+ spots further I tend to think there was some behind the scenes rumor/concern which impacted his status. I'm just guessing, and would love to know if anyone has inside information on why he slipped so far because it really was surprising. (He actually might have slipped much further still, but for his close friendship with Greg Oden making his pick a smart one for Portland even if he never played a minute.) Plenty of (tall) guys get drafted high when they are still complete projects at the offensive end. Josh was a major scorer in high school including out to 3 pt. range. Despite his disappointing failure to dominate offensively at Duke, he (as a young Sophomore- like 15 months younger than Hans-blah if I remember correctly) still shot 50%+ from the field, averaging 7.9 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 2.5 blocks and 1.2 steals (all at a slow tempo), earning all-ACC honors.

Not sure of the value of denigrating his accomplishments any more than is necessary, but if that is your prerogative, enjoy!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i'm not denigrating him. i'm just recognizing the obvious -- something which you refuse to do. if his back were the reason that EVERY team passed on him in the first round, then don't you think it would have been mentioned somewhere? there are guys with injuries that teams take a pass on but word actually gets out that that is going on (it's not just people rumor mongering on fan sites a year later). why is it so difficult to just face the reality that teams in the nba just didn't think he was very good and, like all of us know, was very weak on the offensive end? if he had that much difficulty scoring against 18-22 year olds as the focal point of the offense last year, what on earth is he going to do against seasoned nba vets?

the fact that you are citing his high school stats as evidence of how good he could be is simply ridiculous. casey sanders (yes, the player who averaged 2.7 ppg at duke) was an offensive juggernaut in high school. 2 years of college basketball trumps anything in high school a millionfold. your belief that greg oden somehow saved mcbob from falling further is a new one. care to provide some evidence that oden has pull with the gm of portland?

i don't mean to denigrate the guy but it is painful seeing a former duke player make a horrendous career move (a la avery) that negatively impacts the current team. for his sake, i'd love to see him somehow pull down a shav type contract so, even if he never becomes a regular in the nba, at least he will have earned some financial security in life.

[Jaymf7]

But I absolutely think that some team would've taken a flier on his "potential" by the end of the first round, if there wasn't some other undisclosed concern scaring them off. Maybe it wasn't an injury concern and he instead had a terrible attitude at workouts and in interviews.

If I recall correctly, Josh had surprisingly poor stats at the NBA workouts. His vertical and agility numbers were very average to below average. Perhaps more telling, his body fat was the highest of all predicted first rounders (and may have been higher than Glen Davis'). I was shocked. If nothing else, that suggests a lack of commitment to training for those workouts.

I have always felt that Josh's decision to go was based on his (presumably informed) decision that he had more to lose than gain by sticking around another year.

[ikiru36]

dukie8 and jay,

Fair points, both of you. Where I tend to disagree, though it is not easily provable either way, is that I don't think Josh played himself out of the 1st round in the games we witnessed him playing for Duke. With decent workouts and interviews and a solid combine, I think he would have been a mid to late 1st round pick, as most were predicting all the way up to draft day. On the other hand, if he had truly unimpressive workouts and a poor combine in conjunction with the concerns raised by his failure to dominate at Duke, I suppose that may have been enough to give him a bad name amongst scouts and cause him to slip even without a direct injury concern.

Pretty clearly, unless he is faced with a likely degenerative condition, he would have been better served financially to have waited another year, at least. And had he done so, I think both he and Duke would have been the better for it. dukie8, I agree that it was likely a very poor career move for Josh. Academic inability or immediate financial concerns aside, it's not a great move to go pro early unless you're assured to be a lottery pick at the worst. It's even more clearly a bad move to be drafted outside of the first round when a contract isn't even guaranteed at all. Josh is fortunate that, as a second round pick, he was quickly proferred a couple of years of guaranteed contract.

Comparing Josh's High School resume (including MVP of McDonald's AA game) to Casey Sanders (who, if i recollect correctly, was legendary for insane numbers of blocked shots and an unpolished offensive game at a relatively low level of competition) is not really valid, again as with the Demarcus argument, as Demarcus and Casey were never Top 10 or discussed as likely NBA lottery players whereas Josh was easily both coming out of High School.

I, too, hope Josh figures out how to make the most of his talents, which are potentially considerable. Whether related to past injury or not, he's clearly going to need to be a superior workout warrior to achieve his former promise.

Go Duke!!!!!!! Go Devils!!!!!!!!!!! GTHCGTH!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mapei]

While Josh was ranked as high as #1 coming out of high school, it was an exceptionally weak class - in part because the best big men were going straight to the NBA that year for the last time.

It's also worth noting that Josh was more productive offensively as a sophomore than Shel was, with a slightly higher scoring average (13.0 to 12.6) and a much better assist average (3.5 to 0.5). Shel was a much better rebounder (7.9 to 12.6) and somewhat better shot blocker (2.5 to 3.0).

I definitely wish Josh had stayed at Duke, but I think that about everyone who leaves. Unfortunately we are only going to see more and more of it.

[VaDukie]

I have a lot of mixed feelings over Josh. On the one hand, there was a universal chorus that he was a chemistry killer and not a lot of people were sad to see him leave. He certainly didn't live up to the hype being McDonald's Player of the Year, but if judged solely on their performances as sophomores, guys like Duhon and Battier didn't either.

Having said that, those two guys weren't asked to be stars as sophomores, and they probably weren't entirely ready to either. If Josh could have been a secondary option last year and built up his confidence, who's to say he wouldn't be reaching star status this year?

I think he suffered way too much of the blame for our struggles last year. I can only imagine how much better last season would have gone with a healthy Henderson & Paulus, and a healthy McClure down the home stretch. I can't claim to have insight on his inner psyche, but it would seem natural that healthy teammates would lead to more wins/less pressure, and presumably a better attitude. That being said, I'm not claiming to know anything from people inside the program so maybe he would have been a grouch no matter what.

I also wonder how Josh would be perceived if he had made two shots - the end of regulation against UVA and against FSU. Some may cynically point out that those shots were indicative of his inability to score the entire year, but I digress. If he makes two baskets, he probably gets hyped as Mr. Clutch and we gloss over other flaws. For instance, no one gripes about Dockery's weak outside shot (.365 career) because of one magical shot.

Either way I hope he gets healthy and has a productive career in the league. I would wish nothing less for anyone who has put on a Duke uniform.

[greybeard]

I never understood, and still can't, how anybody missed the obvious and severe negative impact Josh's back had on his game. The guy could not move to the ball most of the time when receiving a penetrating pass. Basketball 101, when you are a tall kid, ingrains that in you. The ball is coming, you have your guy boxed, you move to it. He didn't, almost ever!

His jump shot. Please. The guy made incredibly acrobatic plays on the move on both ends but could not elevate and gracefully release a jump shot from a stand still. Could not do it. At all!

Not too many 19 year olds develop back injuries that require surgery. I should repeat that but I won't. Name me three.

Once Josh hurt his back in high school he was in trouble; he had a subpar freshman year but passed on being a lottery, had surgery, and for all the world appeared in worse shape, much worse shape, at the end of it.

NBA people should have gone public and said, "Hey you studs out there, have an injury and are considering whether to come out early, here's a news flash, you don't and you don't improve, you're toast."

Good message if you're the NBA and want freshman leaving who have tremendous upsides that require you to pick them even though they have these injuries which, along with other factors, would make you prefer they wait.

On the other hand, if you want those kids to do what you would prefer, that is, stay, you keep your collective traps shut, which is just what they all did. They want kids staying in school, not leaving early especially when there seem to be impediments to their ever reaching their potential.

Like his professor said, Josh did the right thing by leaving when he did. In retrospect, I'm sure he wishes he'd have left earlier. Would have been better for him, financially, which you can bet drove the bus when he left. I am sure that it ate him each day during his final season as he saw his physical abilities deteriorate rather than progress. How could it have been otherwise.

As for the chemistry thing, you try walking around in constant pain, well, not constant, just often and jabbingly debilitating at oh so many times, and see how easy you are to live with. Then, instead of just hanging in the house with family and friends who understand but get tired of it, put yourself on TV every week and watch yourself fail to perform elemental tasks that should be like brushing your teeth.

I always thought Paulus incredibly, incredibly courageous for his ability to maintain such positiveness in his interactions in the face of similar adversity. I said it then and I'll say it again, I ain't faulting McRob for being unable to live up to that incredibly high standard. Living your pain and disappointment on a public stage is courage enough for me.

[dukie8]

I never understood, and still can't, how anybody missed the obvious and severe negative impact Josh's back had on his game. The guy could not move to the ball most of the time when receiving a penetrating pass. Basketball 101, when you are a tall kid, ingrains that in you. The ball is coming, you have your guy boxed, you move to it. He didn't, almost ever!

His jump shot. Please. The guy made incredibly acrobatic plays on the move on both ends but could not elevate and gracefully release a jump shot from a stand still. Could not do it. At all!

Not too many 19 year olds develop back injuries that require surgery. I should repeat that but I won't. Name me three.

Once Josh hurt his back in high school he was in trouble; he had a subpar freshman year but passed on being a lottery, had surgery, and for all the world appeared in worse shape, much worse shape, at the end of it.

NBA people should have gone public and said, "Hey you studs out there, have an injury and are considering whether to come out early, here's a news flash, you don't and you don't improve, you're toast."

Good message if you're the NBA and want freshman leaving who have tremendous upsides that require you to pick them even though they have these injuries which, along with other factors, would make you prefer they wait.

On the other hand, if you want those kids to do what you would prefer, that is, stay, you keep your collective traps shut, which is just what they all did. They want kids staying in school, not leaving early especially when there seem to be impediments to their ever reaching their potential.

Like his professor said, Josh did the right thing by leaving when he did. In retrospect, I'm sure he wishes he'd have left earlier. Would have been better for him, financially, which you can bet drove the bus when he left. I am sure that it ate him each day during his final season as he saw his physical abilities deteriorate rather than progress. How could it have been otherwise.

As for the chemistry thing, you try walking around in constant pain, well, not constant, just often and jabbingly debilitating at oh so many times, and see how easy you are to live with. Then, instead of just hanging in the house with family and friends who understand but get tired of it, put yourself on TV every week and watch yourself fail to perform elemental tasks that should be like brushing your teeth.

I always thought Paulus incredibly, incredibly courageous for his ability to maintain such positiveness in his interactions in the face of similar adversity. I said it then and I'll say it again, I ain't faulting McRob for being unable to live up to that incredibly high standard. Living your pain and disappointment on a public stage is courage enough for me.

that's weird. some anonymous poster on the internet has it all figured out about mcbob's back but EVERY nba team -- including those who worked him out -- didn't have it figured out. as i stated earlier, i don't doubt that he has back issues, but if they were as bad as you so proudly proclaim, then how did he even play last year? i've had a herniated disk and, as others have stated, if it is really bad, you really can't get out of bed, much less play d1 hoops.

moreover, if they were as bad as you like to believe, then how come he didn't miss any games, get treatment during any of the games or even wince from the pain during a game? you simply are creating phantom excuses. having read your post and not known any better, i would have thought that he had severe sciatic nerve issues and was half crippled. also, i don't know what games you watched last year, but i didn't see too many acrobatic plays from him on the offensive end. flat bricks with no chance of going in the basket don't cause me to envision ballerinas.

at $427K for the year, he made a horrible career move. if his back really were that bad, then he would have been much better off red-shirting this entire year while rehabing it and then light it up in '08-'09. if he would have done that, then his first year salary would have been much more than $854K and there would be more to follow.

as i stated earlier, it's a bummer when a duke guy makes a bad career move AND it hurts the team the following year. this isn't brand, boozer or jwill, all of whom were ready to go, going pro early.

[greybeard]

that's weird. some anonymous poster on the internet has it all figured out about mcbob's back but EVERY nba team -- including those who worked him out -- didn't have it figured out. as i stated earlier, i don't doubt that he has back issues, but if they were as bad as you so proudly proclaim, then how did he even play last year? i've had a herniated disk and, as others have stated, if it is really bad, you really can't get out of bed, much less play d1 hoops.

moreover, if they were as bad as you like to believe, then how come he didn't miss any games, get treatment during any of the games or even wince from the pain during a game? you simply are creating phantom excuses. having read your post and not known any better, i would have thought that he had severe sciatic nerve issues and was half crippled. also, i don't know what games you watched last year, but i didn't see too many acrobatic plays from him on the offensive end. flat bricks with no chance of going in the basket don't cause me to envision ballerinas.

at $427K for the year, he made a horrible career move. if his back really were that bad, then he would have been much better off red-shirting this entire year while rehabing it and then light it up in '08-'09. if he would have done that, then his first year salary would have been much more than $854K and there would be more to follow.

as i stated earlier, it's a bummer when a duke guy makes a bad career move AND it hurts the team the following year. this isn't brand, boozer or jwill, all of whom were ready to go, going pro early.

You think he stinks and I think his inability to make ordinary plays that any teenager could, much less an a-one college recruit, was due to his surgery. It is possible, you know, to have back trouble that isn't identifiable in terms of a herniated this, or a broken that. Most bad backs are not discernible in such terms. Yours, it seems, was severe and immobilizing. I can imagine how bad that must feel, having had back problems on and off since law school, more consistently but less acutely in the last 20 years.

No orthodpod would have a clue what is wrong with my back or how to begin to help it.

I am not convinced that McRob's back will not improve. I am convinced that it prevented him from playing well on the offensive end in ways I had expected would be EASY for him. Things like moving to the ball, elevating on a jump shot and moving his arms up to shooting position and releasing it with rhythm. He seemed like a disjointed spaz. On the other hand, when on the move, he make catches with his back to the basket and stuff it two handed over his head.

It was, no doubt, his ability to do the latter that lead the NBA guys not to completely give up on McRob. I haven't either. I saw his body break down as the season went on; he was a monster defensively and on the defensive boards during the first part of the season and even his defensive acuity fell off as the season lengthened.

In the end, apart from the poster who had McRob in his class and said he observed McRob in obvious discomfort on a regular basis, no one can say for sure what is what with the guy's back.

That said, I saw enough of McRob's upside play, which was spectacular in its grace, simplicity, and athletic ability (sometimes he literally soared after you thought that he had reached the apex of an already impressive reach to block a shot or dunk) to say that, when it was missing, it had to be due to his back. I still think so.

Or, he just might be incredibly eratic, surley to a fault, and a tall kid with absolutely no shot from 10 feet on out from a standstill. Makes me wonder what K saw in him in the first place.