Page 2029 of 2396 FirstFirst ... 1029152919291979201920272028202920302031203920792129 ... LastLast
Results 40,561 to 40,580 of 47908
  1. #40561
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Bostondevil View Post
    I agree, it could be badly dated. The primary use of the US healthcare system at the time was for elective surgeries (including CABG). As to the Canadian healthcare system being better or worse than ours, it depends on what question you are asking. If you have a kid with an inoperable brain tumor? There are no proton beam radiation treatment centers in Canada. None. As for Canadians not going to Vermont for medical care, I believe you. I have, however, met more than one Canadian family seeking treatment for their kid with cancer at MGH. (Kids come from Vermont to MGH as well.)
    yes, for sure we have a population 10X that of Canada, so of course we have a lot more depth on our healthcare bench...and I am one of those Vermonters who goes to Dana Farber in Boston once a year to find expertise not locally available.
    I do know of Canadians who have sought specialized treatment in the U.S.

    But for your basic citizen, the Canadian system is highly effective...and you won't find the enormous number of bankruptcies caused by health events there that you find here.
    Good case in point: a Canadian friend of mine fractured some bones in his neck on a ski slope Ontario, he had to be hospitalized for a month, and he owed essentially nothing for it...

    Meanwhile, back in the U.S., the UVM hospital is pretty decent (not as good as Dartmouth, though) and even there our friends find that basic orthopedic issues like broken bones can take months to address...my wife broke her wrist, couldn't see ANY doctor, ultimately had a neighbor read the X-rays for us...and when she wanted to look into hip replacement, she had two UVM appointments, took over several months, and she never saw a doctor (we ended up going to Dartmouth where she got an appt. within two weeks and was operated on shortly thereafter...

  2. #40562
    Quote Originally Posted by Bostondevil View Post
    I agree, it could be badly dated. The primary use of the US healthcare system at the time was for elective surgeries (including CABG). As to the Canadian healthcare system being better or worse than ours, it depends on what question you are asking. If you have a kid with an inoperable brain tumor? There are no proton beam radiation treatment centers in Canada. None. As for Canadians not going to Vermont for medical care, I believe you. I have, however, met more than one Canadian family seeking treatment for their kid with cancer at MGH. (Kids come from Vermont to MGH as well.)
    Boston Children's, Duke Children's, Vanderbilt Children's, Seattle Children's get patients from all over the world. Boston and Seattle specifically get lots of Canadian Pediatric patients. I assume adult patients choose some of the best hospitals as well, but I wouldn't know because adults are gross and I don't take care of them. I would put Sick Kids (terrible name, great hospital) in Toronto in that upper echelon as well. I have buddies there and I have lectured there. But it is fair to say American Pediatric centers generally have more resources and are THE worldwide specialists in complex cases. That doesn't mean that this can't or doesn't occur in other countries. We just generally have more of those centers.

  3. #40563
    Quote Originally Posted by Bostondevil View Post
    And based on the vaccine rollout, healthcare system aside, our public health network is better than Canada's. They aren't the same thing.
    This rollout has been amazing and would be so much better if we didn't have a large anti-vax population.

  4. #40564
    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Location
    Toronto
    "Case in point of an area where the Canadian healthcare system fails - covid vaccines. The US has gotten 265 million shots in arms, 118 million (35.8%) people fully vaccinated (nearly 4 times the adult population of Canada) while Canada has managed ~17 million shots in arms and 1.3 (3.5%) fully vaccinated. Darn straight that border should remained close - to protect US! And Canada wouldn't even be doing that well if the US hadn't started sharing doses with them in late March. (There are several factors that get into PPB territory to explain why Canada failed so miserably, but a large contributing factor has to do with how their healthcare system is structured.)"

    I would argue that Canada's lag in vaccinations compared to the US is largely attributed to the lack of production facilities rather than the healthcare system, which has actually been pretty effective in distributing the vaccines Canada has been able to acquire. (The loss of production facilities dates back to Mulroney's Conservative government program of privatization in the 80's.)

    One could judge the effectiveness of the healthcare systems in dealing with Covid by cases and deaths per 100,000. Covid cases per 100,000: US 10,005; Canada 3505. Covid deaths per 100,000: US 177.82; Canada 65.86.
    Last edited by TomJoad; 05-13-2021 at 05:52 PM. Reason: Added quote from Bostondevil

  5. #40565
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    This thread got REAL.

  6. #40566
    Quote Originally Posted by TomJoad View Post
    "Case in point of an area where the Canadian healthcare system fails - covid vaccines. The US has gotten 265 million shots in arms, 118 million (35.8%) people fully vaccinated (nearly 4 times the adult population of Canada) while Canada has managed ~17 million shots in arms and 1.3 (3.5%) fully vaccinated. Darn straight that border should remained close - to protect US! And Canada wouldn't even be doing that well if the US hadn't started sharing doses with them in late March. (There are several factors that get into PPB territory to explain why Canada failed so miserably, but a large contributing factor has to do with how their healthcare system is structured.)"

    I would argue that Canada's lag in vaccinations compared to the US is largely attributed to the lack of production facilities rather than the healthcare system, which has actually been pretty effective in distributing the vaccines Canada has been able to acquire. (The loss of production facilities dates back to Mulroney's Conservative government program of privatization in the 80's.)

    One could judge the effectiveness of the healthcare systems in dealing with Covid by cases and deaths per 100,000. Covid cases per 100,000: US 10,005; Canada 3505. Covid deaths per 100,000: US 177.82; Canada 65.86.
    I believe you are correct, but isn't procurement part of the system? I don't know how you can separate the two, but it isn't just delivery of vaccines, it would also be purchasing vaccines on the open market for delivery. Surely they aren't the only sizable country with resources but without vaccine production facilities. Isn't that at least a quasi-indictment of the Canadian system?

  7. #40567
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Rougemont Nebulae
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    This thread got REAL.
    Here's real. Should we discuss kink on this website? First this is the most rhetorical of all rhetorical questions, in fact, answers are discouraged. Where does it come from? I just read this Yahoo headline:

    Justice Brett Kavanaugh wrote a sexually explicit memo 'in a fog of sleep deprivation' during the Starr investigation

    ...and I'm thinking just what is the connection between sleep deprivation and sexual depravity? Has this been studied? Where's JAMA on this issue or the NEJM?

    This country is just sometimes too weird for me but if anything has the potential to produce high comedy it is sexual repression, and in that category the US must be leading the pack.
    "You will stop hearing the term 'Big Brother' because we will do it to ourselves." --Neil Postman

  8. #40568
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Rougemont Nebulae
    Quote Originally Posted by ClemmonsDevil View Post
    Last 5 artists listened to: Tears for Fears, The Judds, The Breeders, KRS-1, Oak Ridge Boys.
    This was time well spent. While I wouldn't call Roland Orzabal the "most underrated songwriter ever" he's probably in the top 10.
    "You will stop hearing the term 'Big Brother' because we will do it to ourselves." --Neil Postman

  9. #40569
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Boston area, OK, Newton, right by Heartbreak Hill
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    This thread got REAL.
    Tell me about it! I mean, I knew Canadians got their panties in twists when Americans dared to say their healthcare system and/or their ice dancers aren't perfect, but I didn't know Americans took it personally too!

    Kidding folks! I will repeat, that comparing which is better between Canada and the US in terms of healthcare very much depends on how you ask the question. Very much. Basic every day care that won't bankrupt you? Canada. Hands down. Emerging treatments, cutting edge technology, especially those that are high cost? USA. Proton beam radiation therapy is the treatment I am most familiar with that falls into that category. The technology/treatment is still relatively new, but not that new. The first one in the world opened in the UK in 1989. The first one in the US opened a year later. Canada doesn't have one yet. Why? Because they are very expensive to build. When my son was first diagnosed with his tumor, there were only 7 proton beam treatment centers in the US, by the time he needed his treatment, there were 13. The US built 6 more of these facilities in 10 years while the Canadian healthcare system managed to build zero.

    The main reason Canada stumbled with vaccines has nothing to do with production and everything to do with money. The US invested in and purchased from pretty much every company that had a vaccine in clinical trials last summer. (I don't think they invested in the Chinese vaccine.) The US pre-ordered (and paid for) vaccine from Pfizer, Moderna, Asta Zeneca, J&J, and Novovax (there may be others but I have not checked.) Canada did not. Canada hedged their bets in an effort to save money. Spending more on healthcare overall does not correlate with better outcomes. There are, however, sub-categories where it does correlate and when spending more leads to better outcomes, the US beats Canada every time. Every. Time.

    The US spends more than it should on healthcare and not in the right way because we still have people going bankrupt because of medical expenses which is unconscionable. Canada spends less than it should (IMHO).
    Last edited by Bostondevil; 05-13-2021 at 06:53 PM.

  10. #40570
    Quote Originally Posted by Bostondevil View Post
    Tell me about it! I mean, I knew Canadians got their panties in twists when Americans dared to say their healthcare system and/or their ice dancers aren't perfect, but I didn't know Americans took it personally too!

    Kidding folks! I will repeat, that comparing which is better between Canada and the US in terms of healthcare very much depends on how you ask the question. Very much. Basic every day care that won't bankrupt you? Canada. Hands down. Emerging treatments, cutting edge technology, especially those that are high cost? USA. Proton beam radiation therapy is the treatment I am most familiar with that falls into that category. The technology/treatment is still relatively new, but not that new. The first one in the world opened in the UK in 1989. The first one in the US opened a year later. Canada doesn't have one yet. Why? Because they are very expensive to build. When my son was first diagnosed with his tumor, there were only 7 proton beam treatment centers in the US, by the time he needed his treatment, there were 13. The US built 6 more of these facilities in 10 years while the Canadian healthcare system managed to build zero.

    The main reason Canada stumbled with vaccines has nothing to do with production and everything to do with money. The US invested in and purchased from pretty much every company that had a vaccine in clinical trials last summer. (I don't think they invested in the Chinese vaccine.) The US pre-ordered (and paid for) vaccine from Pfizer, Moderna, Asta Zeneca, J&J, and Novovax (there may be others but I have not checked.) Canada did not. Canada hedged their bets in an effort to save money. Spending more on healthcare overall does not correlate with better outcomes. There are, however, sub-categories where it does correlate and when spending more leads to better outcomes, the US beats Canada every time. Every. Time.

    The US spends more than it should on healthcare and not in the right way because we still have people going bankrupt because of medical expenses which is unconscionable. Canada spends less than it should.
    Yes. There is so much going on here. There are just times where throwing $ at the problem is the better option. In this case it was. That is not invariably true (and in my field of expertise-neonatal ventilation I would argue that the Canadians are more advanced), but the vaccine rollout required $ and resources. That we are good at.

  11. #40571
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Boston area, OK, Newton, right by Heartbreak Hill
    Quote Originally Posted by ClemmonsDevil View Post
    Yes. There is so much going on here. There are just times where throwing $ at the problem is the better option. In this case it was. That is not invariably true (and in my field of expertise-neonatal ventilation I would argue that the Canadians are more advanced), but the vaccine rollout required $ and resources. That we are good at.
    Agreed - not invariably true.

    I am not actually criticizing the Canadian healthcare system all that much. They do a better job with day to day stuff which is how the majority of people experience the healthcare system.

  12. #40572
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Boston area, OK, Newton, right by Heartbreak Hill
    Quote Originally Posted by TomJoad View Post
    "Case in point of an area where the Canadian healthcare system fails - covid vaccines. The US has gotten 265 million shots in arms, 118 million (35.8%) people fully vaccinated (nearly 4 times the adult population of Canada) while Canada has managed ~17 million shots in arms and 1.3 (3.5%) fully vaccinated. Darn straight that border should remained close - to protect US! And Canada wouldn't even be doing that well if the US hadn't started sharing doses with them in late March. (There are several factors that get into PPB territory to explain why Canada failed so miserably, but a large contributing factor has to do with how their healthcare system is structured.)"

    I would argue that Canada's lag in vaccinations compared to the US is largely attributed to the lack of production facilities rather than the healthcare system, which has actually been pretty effective in distributing the vaccines Canada has been able to acquire. (The loss of production facilities dates back to Mulroney's Conservative government program of privatization in the 80's.)

    One could judge the effectiveness of the healthcare systems in dealing with Covid by cases and deaths per 100,000. Covid cases per 100,000: US 10,005; Canada 3505. Covid deaths per 100,000: US 177.82; Canada 65.86.
    One could not, I'm afraid, but explaining why is PPB material.

    One can say this - in order to compare healthcare systems, one would need to look at death rates among hospitalized patients in non-surge times. How many people come down with an infectious disease is not really the healthcare system's issue. That's a public health issue.
    Last edited by Bostondevil; 05-13-2021 at 07:26 PM.

  13. #40573
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Boston area, OK, Newton, right by Heartbreak Hill
    Before I make everybody here mad at me - I will explain that I come from a position of having studied healthcare systems, not at the expert level, but I have colleagues who are experts in these sorts of comparisons. My background has convinced me that no healthcare system is perfect. All of them have flaws. All of them have winners and losers. The perfect system does not exist and if there were an easy solution, we would have found it by now.

  14. #40574
    Quote Originally Posted by Bostondevil View Post
    Before I make everybody here mad at me - I will explain that I come from a position of having studied healthcare systems, not at the expert level, but I have colleagues who are experts in these sorts of comparisons. My background has convinced me that no healthcare system is perfect. All of them have flaws. All of them have winners and losers. The perfect system does not exist and if there were an easy solution, we would have found it by now.
    I'm aware of your background and I appreciated your insights.

  15. #40575
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    If itís Thursday, itís a grab bag of all the leftovers in the fridge. Tonight I will be having Thai coconut carrot soup and chicken Alfredo.


    (Iím still allowed to post random comments here, right?)

  16. #40576
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Boston area, OK, Newton, right by Heartbreak Hill
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    If itís Thursday, itís a grab bag of all the leftovers in the fridge. Tonight I will be having Thai coconut carrot soup and chicken Alfredo.


    (Iím still allowed to post random comments here, right?)
    Not just allowed, encouraged.

  17. #40577
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    If itís Thursday, itís a grab bag of all the leftovers in the fridge. Tonight I will be having Thai coconut carrot soup and chicken Alfredo.


    (Iím still allowed to post random comments here, right?)
    Isn't this only random thoughts? Music we love, Foods we love, bands we love and hate, Health Systems and Aimo punching me in the face. Just who we are.

  18. #40578
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Andrew Garfield says if he ever needs the money he will accept payment for whispering "You better lawyer up, a**hole" in their ear.

    He's not my Spider-Man but I like him a little more now.

  19. #40579
    Quote Originally Posted by ClemmonsDevil View Post
    Isn't this only random thoughts? Music we love, Foods we love, bands we love and hate, Health Systems and Aimo punching me in the face. Just who we are.
    A race car driver would have really added to the milieu...

  20. #40580
    He has his detractors, but I really like Michael Barbaro.

Similar Threads

  1. Duke History (new thread-- posts moved from unrelated thread)
    By jimsumner in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 12-25-2019, 09:15 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •