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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA

    Russia & Ukraine

    Things are really kicking off there. Seems to me that Putin wants to essentially hollow Ukraine out and pull the strings on a pro-Kremlin puppet, while driving out would-be resistance and seizing territory and natural resources.
    I refrained from any tongue-in-cheek "World War III Vigil" labels here, because it's not funny and, to this historian's eyes, not at all out of the question (not necessarily likely, but also not off the table).

  2. #2
    As someone who has read a lot on WW2 Europe and particularly the rise and fall of Nazi Germany, it looks familiar in really bad ways.

  3. #3
    Probably an empty gesture for me to say so on a message board, but I pray for the people in harmís way. War is awful, full stop, and I fear we are about to see some horrifying death and destruction.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    As someone who has read a lot on WW2 Europe and particularly the rise and fall of Nazi Germany, it looks familiar in really bad ways.
    WWI as well.
    The way that Putin is resting territorial claims on ethno-nationalism bears striking parallels to the Balkans being caught in between Russia and Austria-Hungary in the early 20th century, and to ethnic Germans in the Sudetenland in the 1930s.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lynchburg, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    As someone who has read a lot on WW2 Europe and particularly the rise and fall of Nazi Germany, it looks familiar in really bad ways.
    Indeed, making it ironic that is Putin is using denazification as one of his pretexts for invasion.

    There are so many ways this could go sideways. Very dangerous times. In a best case scenarioówith no escalation beyond the borders of Ukraineóthereís substantial global economic risk.

    Oh, and just when it looks like we are on the cusp of putting the worst of the pandemic behind us we get this kick in the pants.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by mph View Post
    Indeed, making it ironic that is Putin is using denazification as one of his pretexts for invasion.

    There are so many ways this could go sideways. Very dangerous times. In a best case scenarioówith no escalation beyond the borders of Ukraineóthereís substantial global economic risk.

    Oh, and just when it looks like we are on the cusp of putting the worst of the pandemic behind us we get this kick in the pants.
    I think the inevitable economic instability is actually an intended part of Putin's strategy. For example, the more that markets go haywire and inflation rises, the more likely a second Trump presidency becomes, and Putin would love that.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Iím hoping we can agree that each of the recent administrations bear some burden here and leave it at that. Otherwise this thread wonít be open long.

    (And, if we donít agree on that, to avoid that part of the issue anyway.)

    $0.02

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post
    Iím hoping we can agree that each of the recent administrations bear some burden here and leave it at that. Otherwise this thread wonít be open long.

    (And, if we donít agree on that, to avoid that part of the issue anyway.)

    $0.02
    Thanks, yes. Please do not bring domestic politics into this discussion.

    -jk

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by OldPhiKap View Post

    $0.02
    It's good advice but I'm not paying you for that.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by ClemmonsDevil View Post
    It's good advice but I'm not paying you for that.
    I take Rubles too.

  11. #11

    End Game ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    As someone who has read a lot on WW2 Europe and particularly the rise and fall of Nazi Germany, it looks familiar in really bad ways.
    I have read some and the parallels are scary. The end game of the rise of Nazi Germany was WW2. What ia the end game here?

    I don't see sanctions on Putin working at all or any other economic measure. According to CNN the Russian stock market has crashed and the ruble is at a record low, which I think he had to know would happen. He has prepared his people that this is something they must do for their future safety. I don't think the West can just let him have Ukraine and also doubt if he will be satisfied with it. Russia moving into a NATO country invites WW3.

    Very very scary to me. I wish I could be optimistic but find it hard here.

    SoCal

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    Thanks, yes. Please do not bring domestic politics into this discussion.

    -jk
    Is that across the board or just references to certain individuals? Just hoping to understand what is allowed and what is subject to removal. It may be challenging to discuss this without acknowledging the current administration or recent history.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    As someone who has read a lot on WW2 Europe and particularly the rise and fall of Nazi Germany, it looks familiar in really bad ways.
    I concur. Some very significant similarities.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by Matches View Post
    Probably an empty gesture for me to say so on a message board, but I pray for the people in harmís way. War is awful, full stop, and I fear we are about to see some horrifying death and destruction.
    Some of my closest coworkers are Ukrainian (one actually lives there and works remote). Definitely a scary time for them. Not much the rest of us can do besides offer gestures of support. Feels very surreal.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by TrickDribbles99 View Post
    Is that across the board or just references to certain individuals? Just hoping to understand what is allowed and what is subject to removal. It may be challenging to discuss this without acknowledging the current administration or recent history.
    I would argue it's fair game to say that Putin is using this to gain territory, strengthen his hold on Russia, sow Discord and influence politics in the West. That seems like a rational phrasing that doesn't single out individual situations in individual countries in the West.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by TrickDribbles99 View Post
    Is that across the board or just references to certain individuals? Just hoping to understand what is allowed and what is subject to removal. It may be challenging to discuss this without acknowledging the current administration or recent history.
    There used to be a public policy board but it was removed some years back. So, along with a few other topics, the DBR rules disallow discussion and the mods will remove the content.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Vlad is still despondent over the breakup of the Soviet Union...he felt it was an absolute tragedy...so anything he can do to reconstitute the old USSR works for him. Unfortunately, he's a guy with a lot of military power and essentially NO domestic brakes on his behavior, so ti's difficult to tell what comes next. Grabbing Ukraine seems to be a fait accompli...not sure how he will react to heavy sanctions, since he's been hoarding his oil money for just such an occasion.
    Don't put it past time to have his minions hack U.S. banks, hospitals (they whacked our hospital last year), even power grids...he's angry and not entirely rational.

    Some of the network imbeciles seem to focus on gas prices. This issue is going to impact a whole lot more than gas prices.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Outside Philly
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    Vlad is still despondent over the breakup of the Soviet Union...he felt it was an absolute tragedy...so anything he can do to reconstitute the old USSR works for him. Unfortunately, he's a guy with a lot of military power and essentially NO domestic brakes on his behavior, so ti's difficult to tell what comes next. Grabbing Ukraine seems to be a fait accompli...not sure how he will react to heavy sanctions, since he's been hoarding his oil money for just such an occasion.
    Don't put it past time to have his minions hack U.S. banks, hospitals (they whacked our hospital last year), even power grids...he's angry and not entirely rational.

    Some of the network imbeciles seem to focus on gas prices. This issue is going to impact a whole lot more than gas prices.
    I actually think heís very rationale, which is what makes him extremely dangerous. Itís just that his North Star against which his rationality is guided is not the same as that for you or me.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Undisclosed
    Quote Originally Posted by TrickDribbles99 View Post
    Is that across the board or just references to certain individuals? Just hoping to understand what is allowed and what is subject to removal. It may be challenging to discuss this without acknowledging the current administration or recent history.
    Whatever you do, DO NOT bring up Woodrow Wilson. Trust me on this one.

    (Any discussion of domestic politics descends into partisan bickering eventually, and The Mod Squad doesnít want to referee. Itís not the tone they want for a quality sports chat site).

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Raleigh,NC
    Itís a weird situation that could quickly escalate into nukes flying all the place which would essentially set us back hundreds of years. People may think that itís not possible but it really only takes one country to start it allÖ..

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