Page 1 of 5 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 81
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY

    Seth Davis dings our lack of true road games

    This seems like the SI saw du jour...all we need is Grant Wahl to pile on Winn and Davis

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...houghts/1.html
    Speaking of schedules, it's absolutely mystifying to me that a high-powered program like Duke, which everyone knew was going to be at least a top-15 team coming into the season, is not playing a single true nonconference road game this season. Come on, Coach K! For years, I've heard other coaches grumble that Mike Krzyzewski was playing a lot of his "road" games at regional or neutral sites -- or even at non-neutral neutral sites like Madison Square Garden (aka Cameron North), where Duke will be playing Pittsburgh later this month.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York City
    I don't think playing St. John's at MSG as we have a few times in the last several years would qualify as Cameron North. We happen to have them and Michigan at home this year. Next year they will be away. Playing Illinois in the United Center (ACC-Big Ten Challenge last year) isn't a true road game? Playing Temple in Philly isn't a true road game? Davidson in Charlotte?

    These games are in bigger gyms because Duke sells tickets not because we are avoiding "true" road games. This is just silly blather.

    Reporters tend to be lazy idiots and don't do their own independent thinking (Seth Davis is among the worst) so I expect this to be repeated in other places.
    Singler is IRON

    I STILL GOT IT! -- Ryan Kelly, March 2, 2013

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. synellinden View Post
    Reporters tend to be lazy idiots and don't do their own independent thinking (Seth Davis is among the worst) so I expect this to be repeated in other places.
    Funny thing about Seth is that he is a Duke Grad:

    "A 1992 graduate of Duke with a degree in Political Science, he also was a sports columnist for The Chronicle, the university's daily campus newspaper."

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/wri...davis/archive/

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by mr. synellinden View Post
    I don't think playing St. John's at MSG as we have a few times in the last several years would qualify as Cameron North. We happen to have them and Michigan at home this year. Next year they will be away. Playing Illinois in the United Center (ACC-Big Ten Challenge last year) isn't a true road game? Playing Temple in Philly isn't a true road game? Davidson in Charlotte?

    These games are in bigger gyms because Duke sells tickets not because we are avoiding "true" road games. This is just silly blather.

    Reporters tend to be lazy idiots and don't do their own independent thinking (Seth Davis is among the worst) so I expect this to be repeated in other places.
    You and Seth happen to define "true road game" differently. I don't think that makes him an idiot. If it does, than I guess you'd have to accept the label as well.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    His Duke education completely aside, I do think Davis is among the better of his ilk of journalists out there. I also think his criticism is valid. As synellinden pointed out, circumstance dictated some of our scheduling, but the fact remains that we have no road non-conference games this year (Davidson in Charlotte does not count, ever.).
    IMO, road games in the ACC will be just fine as far as forcing this team to find its chops in hostile environments. Littlejohn, college park, chappaheeyah, etc...those places will do exactly what road games are supposed to do.
    Mostly I view his criticism as a convenient, but not especially meaningful one. After 30 regular-season games, folks will know plenty about this team.

  6. #6
    I think he overstates a good point.

    In most cases MSG or the Meadowlands can be a friendly environment for Duke. Against teams like Arizona or Pitt. But not so much against St. Johns or other area schools.

    On the other hand, Coach K does keep pure cupcakes to a minimum. So while some schools might hold up a couple of really tough road games as shining examples of their tough schedule, while trying to draw attention away from a half dozen sacrificial lamb schools also to be found there.

    I think, with Michigan back on the schedule (and maybe Georgetown?) we could see a return to an early 90s type of scheduling. I'd even accept a few more sacrificial lambs to balance the schedule, just so long as we don't go to John Thompson levels.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    The interesting thing is that later in that same article he gives credit to Michigan State for playing road games at Bradley and BYU. While the Bradley game was a "true" road game by his definition, the BYU game was not played at the Marriott Center in Provo (BYU's true home court) but at the Utah Jazz arena in Salt Lake City.
    He lauds Michigan State for doing the exact same thing (playing an away game not at a true homecourt but at a nearby larger venue) that he dings Duke for.

    While I don't know if Seth Davis is an idiot, I do agree with Feldspar that the fact-checking in his articles has more errors than most national columns. I also feel that many of his opinions in said articles do seem to lack a bit of independent thinking compared to his other CNN/SI college basketball columnists (Luke Winn and Grant Wahl).

    I do however agree with him on his overall point that Duke needs another big time road home-and-home series. I know that we play St. Johns for the NYC exposure, but I can't believe that we can't do better than Michigan and Temple for our "marquee" home-and-homes
    Last edited by tbyers11; 12-12-2007 at 09:12 AM. Reason: forgot an "at"

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York City
    Quote Originally Posted by feldspar View Post
    You and Seth happen to define "true road game" differently. I don't think that makes him an idiot. If it does, than I guess you'd have to accept the label as well.
    I didn't say that I think Seth is an idiot. I knew Seth very well at Duke and know that he is not an idiot. I do happen to know that many reporters are in fact idiots and lazy and don't like to do their own homework and often rely on what they've read elsewhere. Read the public policy thread about crime rates in Massachusetts for an interesting discussion about this.

    What I said is that reporters are idiots and lazy and don't do their own independent thinking - the latter is what I accused Seth of being among the worst because I often read his stories and see regurgitations of what I have already seen and a lack of independent analysis. Some of the evidence of this has been noted by previous posts. That's the nature of his hoop thoughts - quips and opinions often based on what he's heard or read elsewhere, often without sufficient fact checking - and I think that is less than exemplary journalism.

    On a separate note, I didn't appreciate your post. You could and should be more diplomatic in general and you should read carefully what people post before making snide responses - that seems to be a pattern of yours.
    Singler is IRON

    I STILL GOT IT! -- Ryan Kelly, March 2, 2013

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    I guess that I am as bad as Seth Davis. In my previous post, I meant that I agreed with Mr. Synellinden's (not Feldspar's) point about fact-checking. I edited the post once to fix a typo and now I no longer have the edit button on my post. As a not-to-frequent poster, are we not able to edit our posts more than once on this board?

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by tbyers11 View Post
    As a not-to-frequent poster, are we not able to edit our posts more than once on this board?
    There is a time limit; I believe it is 15 minutes.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Quote Originally Posted by Turtleboy View Post
    There is a time limit; I believe it is 15 minutes.
    Thanks. That is good to know and it makes sense, too.

  12. #12
    I agree that our non-conference schedule the past few years has lacked many true road games, but what is to gain from scheduling more?

    The ACC provides enough road challenges, and if memory serves, until last year, Duke has enjoyed unprecedented success in hostile ACC arenas. Isn't it better to schedule games at neutral sites against non conference opponents to better simulate an NCAA tournament atmosphere? I think this might be K's philosophy anyway, and is one reason why we almost always play a preseason tournament.

    I realize it would be harder to win a game AT Pitt than the upcoming one at MSG, but the latter has more of a regional final feeling, and at least in K's mind, might prove to be more useful.

  13. #13
    Before this turns thread turns into an argument...I understand what people mean about having Duke play more big time games, whether on the road or a home&home series. It sure sounds appealing to get to watch a Duke-Kansas game, Duke-UCLA game, or I'd personally like to see a Duke-Tennessee series (just b/c I could get tickets)...But if we are going to play those teams, doesn't it make more sense to have them at a neutral site? Playing on the road could be a way of getting tested, but playing at a neutral site is the toughest test you'll have in the NCAA Tournament.


    Edit: Sorry for saying the same thing as the previous poster; I can't type fast enough!

  14. #14
    "IMO, road games in the ACC will be just fine as far as forcing this team to find its chops in hostile environments. Littlejohn, college park, chappaheeyah, etc...those places will do exactly what road games are supposed to do."

    Sorry, although Clemson currently looks like the 3rd strongest team in the league, Duke only plays them at CIS this year.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Louisville, KY

    Value?

    Some/many will argue that nothing matters until the tournament. Mid-season rankings are at best guidance in NCAA seedings. I don't really agree with this argument, but see its merits. Along those lines then, what value is there to a "true" road game? Hostile yet neutral locations best replicate the toughest venue hurdles teams will overcome in March. Early seasons tournaments and neutral-site events are much better post-season indicators (but for the temporal distance) than away games from the sake of away games. Personally, I would love to see more home-and-home series with good programs, but I don't see them as critical to March Madness seasoning.

  16. #16
    "But if we are going to play those teams, doesn't it make more sense to have them at a neutral site? Playing on the road could be a way of getting tested, but playing at a neutral site is the toughest test you'll have in the NCAA Tournament."

    Playing on the road "could" be a way of getting tested? Against any half-way decent team, that should always be a good test, if not a very strong one if it's a solid team - and that doesn't have to necessarily be somebody ranked in the current polls. I don't agree at all that playing at a neutral site is the "toughest" test a team can have in the NCAAs. Think back to Carolina in the 2005 finals in St. Louis - that crowd was at least 75% in support of Illinois. Isn't the 2008 Final Four in San Antonio? If Duke had to play, say, Texas, having had more exposure to true road games would only help, not hurt.

  17. #17
    Of course, the inverse of this "no tough true road games" debate is that Duke also doesn't get the benefit of playing the return game of those home-and-home matchups in Cameron.

    Sure, Duke could have played Pitt at Cameron this year and then at Pitt next year and had a "true road game" against a tough opponent. But then they also would have had a true home game over that two year span as well. So, given that Cameron is usually considered one of the biggest home court advantage in college basketball, it seems that Duke gives up as much as they get when they go for those neutral locations.

    At the heart of all of this is that the goals of the coaching staff when they make the schedule are different than the desires of those who want to see Duke play games on the road. In the most benign view, those who criticize Duke for not playing true road games are doing it because they want to see great matchups. But more likely the reason they want to see Duke play true road games is because they want Duke to have a greater chance to lose.

    Well, K's philosophy is different and I'm doubting that any amount of criticism from fans or the media is going to change that. Sure, Duke could have played Davidson on their home court this year. Or they could play them on the same floor where the ACC Tournament is being held. Sure, Duke could play Pitt in the 'burgh. Or they could play them in a big arena similar to what they'll see in the NCAA Tournament.

    From a purely selfish standpoint I'd love to see those home and home games because I'd love to watch Pitt in Cameron. But from a coaching standpoint, it seems like a pretty good move. You get true road game experiences in league play - why not get some versatility in your out of conference experiences?

  18. #18

    Question Duke Davidson thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by wilson View Post
    His Duke education completely aside, I do think Davis is among the better of his ilk of journalists out there. I also think his criticism is valid. As synellinden pointed out, circumstance dictated some of our scheduling, but the fact remains that we have no road non-conference games this year (Davidson in Charlotte does not count, ever.).
    IMO, road games in the ACC will be just fine as far as forcing this team to find its chops in hostile environments. Littlejohn, college park, chappaheeyah, etc...those places will do exactly what road games are supposed to do.
    Mostly I view his criticism as a convenient, but not especially meaningful one. After 30 regular-season games, folks will know plenty about this team.
    Nearly 18,000 people attended the Duke-Davidson game in Charlotte. That's about 3 times what the Davidson gym holds as I understand it. As has been noted before, Charlotte is not really a 'Duke' town so it doesn't really seem like a neutral site. Made for a better payday for Davidson by having it in the larger venue (and the Carolina game).

    Since both schools are part of the Duke Endowment, can this ever be a 'road' game anyway?

    Coach K has stated he likes to have the simulated NCAA tournament feel of playing in large places on the road. I think this is valid based on his overall record. Also, recruiting in various areas would probably be helped by having high profile games in certain cities and larger places (New York, Chicago).

    Not sure where this emphasis on so-called "true" road games began. If you're not playing at home...

    Agree that the ACC has enough hostile environments to fulfill all and more of any necessary "steel" this adds to the team.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mount Kisco, NY

    Does the RPI factor true road vs neutral?

    The Duke staff is very savvy at scheduling for maximum RPI strength...I am guessing that the RPI formula doesn't take into account true road vs neutral court...does anyone know for sure? Does the RPI even factor in home vs away?

    If it doesn't impact the RPI, then Duke really has no motivation to schedule home and homes at home courts.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Two miles south of Cameron
    Quote Originally Posted by Billy Dat View Post
    -- or even at non-neutral neutral sites like Madison Square Garden (aka Cameron North)
    We play some place a few times, we make it Our House!

Similar Threads

  1. Deron Washington / Seth Greenberg
    By redick4pres in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 166
    Last Post: 01-27-2008, 03:09 PM
  2. Seth Davis/SI.com Story On K
    By Atlanta Duke in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 09-27-2007, 05:58 PM
  3. espn critique - true, true
    By wiscodevil in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 57
    Last Post: 08-12-2007, 11:02 AM
  4. Really good bubble talk from Seth Davis
    By wilson in forum Elizabeth King Forum
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 02-28-2007, 10:58 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •