UCLA vs. TEXAS

[mus074]

Texas is one of very few teams in the country that Duke might choose not to run with.

Texas actually likes playing slower than even UCLA. UCLA's adjusted pace ranks 174th, while Texas' ranks 317th of 341. This game featured only 59 possessions. Duke's slowest game to date had 66 possessions.

Texas is for real, with an amazing offensive efficiency predicated upon lights out shooting (2nd highest eff. FG%age) and the lowest TO %age in the country. Those two numbers are raw, i.e., not adjusted for level of competition, and they have played 18th toughest defense SOS.

Pomeroy just published the first individualized stats of the year, and Abrams (2) and Atchley (6) are at the top of all offensive players this year. Mason is close behind with a 31st ORtg.

Simply put, their offense is on fire right now. Very interesting to see how that will play out as conference play begins in the next month or so. (They only play Kansas once this year, 2/11 at home. These big-conference, unbalanced schedules just suck.)

[juise]

Does Texas pass Duke in the rankings now? Shouldn't but may.

They did in both polls. Duke's #6 in the AP and #7 in the ESPN/USA Today (just ahead of UCLA in each).

[texas]

Simply put, their offense is on fire right now. Very interesting to see how that will play out as conference play begins in the next month or so. (They only play Kansas once this year, 2/11 at home. These big-conference, unbalanced schedules just suck.)
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we play the north teams only once every year. so at KU one year then at home the next. i'd love to play them twice every season. we are playing without gary johnson so far this year, but expect to get him medically cleared by january (heart condition). apparently he is the real deal, better version of PJ Tucker, so we're fired up about that. coach barnes has been talking like johnson will be cleared to play. once that happens, we'll be competitive with anyone. up until now however, it has taken some hot shooting. sure it's great to be ranked #4 and #5 in the polls, but it's early december so it doesn't mean much. i'm just thankful i didn't have to make the trip to NYC again this year to see us get pummeled by DUKE!

[juise]

i'm just thankful i didn't have to make the trip to NYC again this year to see us get pummeled by DUKE!

Welcome!


That game was actually the last time I had the pleasure of seeing Duke live. It was A LOT of fun... except the part where the Texas fans were (without provocation) yelling at us about football in the parking lot. I reminded them that Vince Young was about to get smoked in the Heisman voting later that night. I was right, but that season ended up going pretty well for the Horns.

Anyway, don't worry... we don't have another J.J. stashed away anywhere (as far as I know).

[texas]

thanks for the welcome! my first time to check out your board, which i hear is fun. i plan to check it out. i've followed duke basketball since the late 80's. my best friend in high school graduated from duke and my sister also graduated from duke. she was like most of you dukies, too smart for her own good, finished in 3 years but duke won it all 2 of those 3 years! (90's)

don't start about VY and the heisman, that was complete BS. VY was obviously better, as witnessed in the rose bowl which i attended

hey duke, how about coming to play a game in austin? texas has lots of good high school players to recruit and the BBQ and mexican food isn't too bad.

[Indoor66]

thanks for the welcome! my first time to check out your board, which i hear is fun. i plan to check it out. i've followed duke basketball since the late 80's. my best friend in high school graduated from duke and my sister also graduated from duke. she was like most of you dukies, too smart for her own good, finished in 3 years but duke won it all 2 of those 3 years! (90's)

don't start about VY and the heisman, that was complete BS. VY was obviously better, as witnessed in the rose bowl which i attended

hey duke, how about coming to play a game in austin? texas has lots of good high school players to recruit and the BBQ and mexican food isn't too bad.

I see a BBQ discussion coming...

[Classof06]

I agree! I have now seen parts of 3-4 UCLA games and have come away wondering why there was so much hype about Love. He seems to a have good vision and passing ability as well a a great feel for the game but he kinda reminds me of Bryant "Big Country" Reeves. That's not to say that he won't be a good if not great college player, with his size he'll do quite well at the college level. Watching him though is a little tough he seems to be in slow motion half the time.

Kyle is much more dynamic and fun to watch. I also think his upside is higher. Just one man's opinion.

I did not see the game last night but I've seen UCLA play about 4 times this year and I think Love is much more skilled than Big Country. Kevin Love is legit and I wouldn't let anyone tell you different. I have zero complaints about our Oregon stud but it doesn't take much to imagine what having Kevin Love in Durham would do for this team.

[mgtr]

I see a BBQ discussion coming...

If BBQ is the new topic, I vote that we all go to Memphis. Great, great Barbeque.

[Clipsfan]

I did not see the game last night but I've seen UCLA play about 4 times this year and I think Love is much more skilled than Big Country. Kevin Love is legit and I wouldn't let anyone tell you different. I have zero complaints about our Oregon stud but it doesn't take much to imagine what having Kevin Love in Durham would do for this team.

I have to agree that the comparison between Big Country and Love is off base. The main similarity would have to be inability to get off the ground, but Love has a very high basketball IQ and some of the surest hands around. So what if his vertical is less than a foot?

[AluminumDuke]

If BBQ is the new topic, I vote that we all go to Memphis. Great, great Barbeque.

I've never had Memphis BBQ, so I won't argue that versus Texas BBQ, but you've got to concede the Mexican food topic to Texas .

[A-Tex Devil]

hey duke, how about coming to play a game in austin? texas has lots of good high school players to recruit and the BBQ and mexican food isn't too bad.

Living in Austin, I would love, love, LOVE for Duke to come here and play UT. Unfortunately, we rarely play major non-conference teams on their homecourt anymore if it's not on the east coast.

I could certainly see a game getting set up in Houston at some point. In fact, I seem to remember the game against UT in NYC in December 2003 was originally going to be in Houston (Danny Ewing vs. TJ), but when TJ Ford left early, it was less glamorous and got moved to NYC. Could be remembering that wrong.

I'm certainly all for it.

[mgtr]

I've never had Memphis BBQ, so I won't argue that versus Texas BBQ, but you've got to concede the Mexican food topic to Texas .

Point conceded without argument!

[greybeard]

I haven't seen much of Love yet, but I would have to think that comparing him to Big Country as a college player would be a complement.

I remember Big Country as having an exceptionally good head and feel for the game, looks aside, soft hands, good footwork, an exceptional ability to move to open space relative to where the ball would be for an entry pass, and an ability to finish plays in a variety of ways.

I haven't seen Love display any of those attributes at comparable levels in the short time I've looked. Part of the reason I haven't watched UCLA much is that Love seems so out of sync with the game around him I found watching him (them) uninteresting. Being in sync was a part of the game that Big Country seemed to excel at. Some of that might be attributable to a coach who directed the other guys to find BC's rhythms and play to them, and their being able and willing. To me, however, Big Country's feel for the game and its flow and ability to use it to his advantage made that possible.

Love, in my mind, has yet to prove that he can sit at the table with the Big guy, much less be slighted by a comparison.

[Classof06]

I haven't seen much of Love yet, but I would have to think that comparing him to Big Country as a college player would be a complement.

I remember Big Country as having an exceptionally good head and feel for the game, looks aside, soft hands, good footwork, an exceptional ability to move to open space relative to where the ball would be for an entry pass, and an ability to finish plays in a variety of ways.

I haven't seen Love display any of those attributes at comparable levels in the short time I've looked. Part of the reason I haven't watched UCLA much is that Love seems so out of sync with the game around him I found watching him (them) uninteresting. Being in sync was a part of the game that Big Country seemed to excel at. Some of that might be attributable to a coach who directed the other guys to find BC's rhythms and play to them, and their being able and willing. To me, however, Big Country's feel for the game and its flow and ability to use it to his advantage made that possible.

Love, in my mind, has yet to prove that he can sit at the table with the Big guy, much less be slighted by a comparison.

Good points. I didn't mean to imply that Reeves wasn't any good, he's one college basketball player I'll never forget watching as a kid.

That being said, Reeves was the centerpiece of a Final 4 team; Love is a freshman joining a team that's been to 2 straight Final 4s. Love may never stay long enough to be "the man" like Reeves, but I'm guessing Reeves had much more latitude to display his skills. And keep in mind that Reeves didn't truly hit the national spotlight until his senior year; Love's only played 8 college games.

Now again, I didn't watch last night's game but I'm guessing by these posts that Love had his worst game of this young season. Because in the UCLA games I've seen this year, Love has been phenomenal with what has been asked of him. He's not the star of this team by any means but you're talking about a kid that's averaging 17 ppg and 10 rpg on a damn good team; Reeves averaged 8 ppg and 5 rpg as a freshman, didn't really hit the national spotlight until his senior year, and even then averaged 21.5 ppg--only 4 more than Love already averages. It's not all about stats, but I maintain that the fact Love has the numbers he has means that he's "in-sync" with the rest of the players on a team with a very high basketball IQ. He knows what his team is trying to accomplish and he helps that cause immensely.

My point is that you won't see Love dominate like Reeves this year becuase he's on a much deeper team. Nevertheless, Love is still far ahead of Reeves at the same age.

[Duvall]

Unlikely. The last time a Duke team played at Texas it turned out to be a trap.

[yancem]

I did not see the game last night but I've seen UCLA play about 4 times this year and I think Love is much more skilled than Big Country. Kevin Love is legit and I wouldn't let anyone tell you different. I have zero complaints about our Oregon stud but it doesn't take much to imagine what having Kevin Love in Durham would do for this team.

Did you see Big Country play when he was in college? He was quite skilled and a very good player. My point was less to do with college and more to do with the next level. In what I have seen Love's problem is just that he can't jump very high, he doesn't have much quickness or speed. In the college game someone his size can still dominate with those traits because there are few true big men but in the NBA not only are there more players Love's size but they are faster and quicker. He may do ok in the NBA, Big Country was a solid pro for several years but he wasn't a stud and I don't think Love will be either. At least from what I've seen so far.

As for what Love would bring to the current Duke team, I'm not too sure. He is certainly talented and has the size we are missing, but how does he fit into a the run and gun offense other than his superior outlet passing ability? In order for him to be effective in the offense, wouldn't Duke have to slow the pace? Not saying it would necessarily hurt to have him but it incorporating him would certainly change the way Duke plays offense.

[dukemomLA]

DBR is the GREATEST website for college BB and more -- on the planet. We all welcome your input and thoughts and perusals of our dribble. Again, welcome to DBR. It's amazing. Your continued thoughts and input as a non-Dukie will be appreciated and responded to with alacrity and poise. Welcome!

[greybeard]

Good show, Classof06; much more informed than I.

I don't know what it is that I find unwatchable about UCLA, but it was true for me last year and now this. Perhaps it has to do with their coach's style? I really don't know.

Anyway, glad you appreciated Big Country; it's not often that guys as winsome looking as him and me get a second look.

[Classof06]

As for what Love would bring to the current Duke team, I'm not too sure. He is certainly talented and has the size we are missing, but how does he fit into a the run and gun offense other than his superior outlet passing ability? In order for him to be effective in the offense, wouldn't Duke have to slow the pace? Not saying it would necessarily hurt to have him but it incorporating him would certainly change the way Duke plays offense.

I don't think Duke would have to slow or change the pace with a center that can get the rebound and throw line-drive outlet passes as far as halfcourt if need be. I think Love's rebounding and outlet abilities would absolutely play right into Duke's transition offense. I also think Love's presence would give players like Singler and Lance the opportunity to play their more natural roles.

As far as the NBA goes, I agree with your comments that Big Country was a solid pro and I'm not sold that Love will be an NBA star either. But at this stage in his career, I believe Love compares favorably to Reeves, who people really only became familiar with as a senior.

[Clipsfan]

Did you see Big Country play when he was in college? He was quite skilled and a very good player. My point was less to do with college and more to do with the next level. In what I have seen Love's problem is just that he can't jump very high, he doesn't have much quickness or speed. In the college game someone his size can still dominate with those traits because there are few true big men but in the NBA not only are there more players Love's size but they are faster and quicker. He may do ok in the NBA, Big Country was a solid pro for several years but he wasn't a stud and I don't think Love will be either. At least from what I've seen so far.

As for what Love would bring to the current Duke team, I'm not too sure. He is certainly talented and has the size we are missing, but how does he fit into a the run and gun offense other than his superior outlet passing ability? In order for him to be effective in the offense, wouldn't Duke have to slow the pace? Not saying it would necessarily hurt to have him but it incorporating him would certainly change the way Duke plays offense.

Love played a season low in minutes against Texas and I think that a large part of it had to do with his lack of footspeed (and possibly conditioning). He was beaten down the floor twice in the opening minutes by Texas' center for easy baskets, and just didn't seem able to keep up. Singler is much more capable of running and is a better threat on the secondary break.