I rest my case! GREAT JOB Marty!

[JBDuke]

...

Are you not spoiled by the success either? Strictly from my perspective, I am required to spend a lot to be able to go to the games, not to mention the 6 hours round trip it takes to go there. If I hire a new salesperson for my company and invest money with him or her, I demand returns. for me and for their success. I invest for Duke, I expect returns as well.

At the end of each year, I can generally set back and say, well, if you had told me in the beginning we would finish first in the acc, loose only 6 games, win the acc tourney, make it to the sweet 16, or elite 8 etc, I would be happy with that. Just about every year I say that.

The kids played hard this year. I sit close enough to see it in there faces. I am proud of the kids. Were before tonight and will be if they loose next week by 38. I will always be on the players bandwagon.

I hope I'm not spoiled by the success. I try not to be.

Since you go into a business analogy, while it's not my field, I'll use one back at you.

If you lost your two best salesmen in the same year, had no proven salesmen to move into those territories and therefore had to put inexperienced men into those positions, would you necessarily expect those territories to generate the same amount of business that year?

Every business has its ups and downs, just like every college basketball team. If you have a management team in place that has been #1 in their field over the last 20 years, do you start telling them how to do their job differently just because they have a bad year?

Since you invest time and money in your Duke fandom every year, do you consider yourself a long-term or a short-term investor? If the former, do you not see that the program is on solid footing, and that the future is indeed bright, despite a "disappointing" year? So, you had some big write-offs this year - you had to invest more of the profits to generate some growth - but that'll pay off over the next couple of years. Is this a bad thing?

You say you expect returns on your Duke investment. Haven't you been amply rewarded by that investment, year after year? Can you really say that your investment has been a loser? If so, I say get out while you can and let someone else have those seats.

Regarding expectations for this year, when I looked at things with what I think is a fairly experienced and knowledgeable fan's eye, I was expecting an ACC record somewhere between 8-8 and 10-6. We hit the low side of that, but we were also three missed layups from being 11-5, so I'm okay with that. We did better in non-conf than I expected. I figured on a lost to G'town, maybe a loss in the NIT finals, and maybe one more somewhere along the line - so 2 or 3 non-conf. losses instead of the 1 we've had so far. I did expect that we'd win an ACC tourney game, but that anything beyond that was gravy. Given how things worked out today, I'm only mildly disappointed. As for the NCAA's, I figured we'd do well to continue our Sweet 16 streak. I figured we'd win one, maybe two, but that would be about it. We still have a shot at that, especially if we can pull a 6 or 7 seed. I think we'll struggle if we fall to an 8 or 9, especially with our second game. But be assured, any one or two seed that sees us in their bracket is gonna gripe about it.

So, if I was a Duke "investor" (and I am, with time, some money, and LOTS of emotion), then I would have to say that this year has just about met my expectations, and I will hold onto my stock for the foreseeable future.

[imagepro]

Deb- How am I dissing anyone? I don't care if you move on or not. That's your option. But how have I "dissed" anyone. I want Marty to play. How is that Dissing someone. Please explain.

I've been watching DUKE athletic for 4 decades. But it doesn't matter if I, or you, started today. AS far as Martys' defense, i watched him CLOSELY off the ball tonight. If you did the same you wouldn't have made the comment you did about his defensive abilities!

And please also tell me Deb, how wanting a kid, any kid, to play, can be labeled as hating DUKE? With all due respect, I think you have completely missed the point.

[BluDvil03]

I've been watching DUKE athletic for 4 decades. But it doesn't matter if I, or you, started today. AS far as Martys' defense, i watched him CLOSELY off the ball tonight. If you did the same you wouldn't have made the comment you did about his defensive abilities!

Umm, I'm assuming you watched the game on TV since you posted so quickly afterwards. I was there in the Duke section (thanks to one of the mods here), and I saw something quite different regarding his defense. He looked better today than earlier in the season, to be sure, but he is by and large still lost on D. I think you could trace two or three of McRoberts and McClure's fouls to Marty's guy blowing by him, or to him failing to switch properly. What's more, he looks even more lost on inbounds plays (we had little chance to force a TO late in the game with our pressure). He literally seemed like he had to wait until everybody else had picked up a man before he knew who his assignment was.

[JBDuke]

WHOA - JB DUKE, slow down there sir!

Since when does wanting Marty Pocious to play constitute jumping off the bandwagon? You like this team? So do I. But can I not want MP to play?
...

Imagepro, my post was directed at trinitydevil, not at you. You're definitely on Marty's bandwagon, that's for sure, and most of the time, that's Duke's bandwagon, too. Sometimes, you want Marty to drive the Duke wagon, and many of us look at his driving record and ask you "why?", but it's clear you don't see the same things the rest of us do.

I'll not respond to the rest of your post, since you didn't understand who my initial response was aimed at.

[imagepro]

Ummm, yes I did watch on TV 03. First ACC I've missed in several years. Passed on tickets because I had other committments this year, and the travel. BUT no, I didn't see what you are describing, and I watched MP closely off the ball, and ddin't see people blow by him. If I can get a replay from someone, I will watch. One thing is for sure, while watching the game on tv has advantages of seeing replays etc, it pales to "BEING THERE".

But I tell you this much, I DID watch him in person in the Maryland game (and many others at Cameron) and he played not good defense, but excellent defense. Four rows up, across from the DUKE bench is a pretty good vantage point too. NO tonight I was NOT there. BUt I think he has been labeled, and not given credit for his efforts to improve.

Have fun in Tampa!

[fogey]

ALL YEAR Marty should have been rotated onto the floor IN BOTH HALVES to give a blow to others. As good as Jon Sheyer is, some of his minutes should be shaved, as he does not bring the same skill set to the game and he, like everyone else, has stretches of complete ineffectiveness. Whether anyone wants to admit it, kids who know they are on the floor for 35 minutes absolutey pace themselves and cannot go 100% every play. That is a fact and obvious in watching this team. Marty in for 20 minutes a game would have introduced a very healthy dynamic: needed rest for starters, and (for this team) a unique skill set of speed, quickness, offensive moves and shooting touch, and AGGRESSIVENESS.

[CMS2478]

that just bc ImagePro expresses his opinion about Marty's playing time everyone jumps on his case and says he "knows more than K." If stated my opinion that I don't like onions they are disgusting, would anyone really get offended and go out of their way to argue with me, probably not. However, if I say that I think Player X should get more playing time, it is a given that I obviously know more than Coach K and I am a negative Duke fan. Let's all just take a deep breath and realize that if you can't express your opinion freely (as long as it is not a personal attack on someone ) I ask like l have before.....what is this board for? ImagePro thinks Marty should play more, let him have his opinion without throwing him under the bus for it.

Good Day to All

[evrdukie]

Obviously I don't get to watch Pocius practicerevery day, like the coaching staff, but I've felt all year Duke would have been a better team if he were playing more. Last night's performance reinforced my opinion. If nothing else, he brings intensity and aggression that this team really needed.

[Matches]

I'm still interested to know whose minutes you want Marty to take. Tonight he took Gerald's (suspension) and DeMarcus's (after fouling out). You on board for keeping Marty's minutes next Thursday or Friday where they were tonight?

Jon Scheyer played 43 minutes against State. Even if the game hadn't gone into OT, his tally would've been 38. And he was obviously gassed at the end of the game, as has been the case on several occasions this year. Couldn't Marty take some of those minutes and help keep Scheyer fresh?

There's 200 minutes to go around, and even if we don't play Small Ball (which we did for lengthy stretches against NCSU), there are 120 minutes for the wing players. Paulus is going to play 35 of those at least, leaving 85 minutes for Nelson, Scheyer, Henderson, and Pocius. Is 30, 25, 20, and 10 unreasonable?

[CMS2478]

Sounds reasonable to me.

[Duke05]

that just bc ImagePro expresses his opinion about Marty's playing time everyone jumps on his case and says he "knows more than K." If stated my opinion that I don't like onions they are disgusting, would anyone really get offended and go out of their way to argue with me, probably not. However, if I say that I think Player X should get more playing time, it is a given that I obviously know more than Coach K and I am a negative Duke fan. Let's all just take a deep breath and realize that if you can't express your opinion freely (as long as it is not a personal attack on someone ) I ask like l have before.....what is this board for? ImagePro thinks Marty should play more, let him have his opinion without throwing him under the bus for it.

Good Day to All

I'm not sure this is fair. evrdukie just expressed that same opinion about Marty's playing time, and I doubt he'll get jumped on at all.

Instead, responses to imagepro were likely prompted by others' interpretations of his posts' tone. Others and I thought it was gloating; imagepro disagreed. That's fine; he wrote the post, so he can have it his way. But it should be pretty obvious that imagepro comes to the board with a pretty animated persona -- one that can occasionally be entertaining, occasionally be contagiously enthusiastic, and occasionally be strident and irritating. Particularly after a tough loss.

This isn't intended as a personal attack on imagepro. For the most part, I'm pretty indifferent to his posts and am entertained by a few of them. But I don't think anyone should be surprised when he gets a rise out of others; his style makes this inevitable.

[Cavlaw]

For all the post-game comments about the team not talking on defense, there was one voice I heard loud and clear on the TV over and over again: Marty.

Unfortunately it was always when we were on offense... Still it seemed like the kid was constantly open for a baseline 3, but only got the ball a few times. When he did, he showed good judgment on shot selection (i.e., take the shot or drive if the defense rolled out too quickly). I have to wonder if he might have had quite a few more points if some more of the drives into traffic has been kicked out to him?

No way to know, but I was happy for him having such a good game. Would have been a great night for him if they had managed to pull out the win.

[CMS2478]

I will accept your opinion on the matter bc, afterall it is a public message board and you are allowed to state your opinion. And I am not trying to be sarcastic at all bc I don't want my tone to be taken the wrong way. I can honestly see how people can take posts the wrong way bc it is impossible to understand the tone with posts. There have been many times I have posted things and then when I go back and read I think " that sounds a little arrogant or critical." I just think that ImagePro was saying that he, like many others thought Marty should be playing more and his play last night proved what he can do IF given the chance.

[imagepro]

you're right about going offense/defense--- Geez man, you said it right above. I can't even agree with you? And you go huh? Whatever

[imagepro]

Well said Fogey. I'll take all the criticism from others though. But thanks for echoeing my feelings and expressing it better.

[imagepro]

sounds resonable to me too.

[imagepro]

JB- I knew your post was at trinity. He nor anyone else jumped off the bandwagon. C'mon man.

[imagepro]

Woody and Eric Montross raved about Pocious after the game, according to a bigtime UNC football guy. He called me this morning, and said Woody and ERic said, "if there was an all tournament team after one day, Pocious would be on it".. Now I didn't hear it, but the guy who told me is honest and very respectable. Pretty sad that the UNC radio network sings his praises, and our fans question how he could play more! Take a moment and consider that, those of you who are saying he can't get more time.

[Grey Devil]

I find all this entire discussion about whether Marty should or should not play to be totally uninformed. And it’s ironic that I have to bring this to people’s attention because I live in California, a continent away from the action.

Don’t any of you watch Coach K’s weekly TV show? Thanks to DirecTV and Tivo I get to see it every week. Many weeks the show features a particular player on the team. Last week’s episode had a feature about Marty. Coach K specifically talked about how much Marty has contributed to the program and explained that he hadn’t been able to play as much as either he or K would like because he has been suffering from foot injuries all year. K went on to say that Marty was only now recovering and has only recently been able to play more minutes.

That explained to me a lot about Marty’s time. But it also explained a lot to me about how inane and stupid some of the arguments on this board can get. I am particularly upset by the tone of the “discussions” that some threads take on this board. People get so ingrained in a particular point of view that it becomes a “my way or the highway” type of attitude. I am particularly upset by the “arrogance without information or knowledge” that both sides took on this specific issue. Everyone seems to think they know the truth, when it appears to me that no one knew (or if they did, didn’t want to get into the middle of what appears to be a really stupid cat fight). Well I’m going to get in the middle and try to clear the air about the emotions in this thread.

I have found that the tone of the first message or next few immediately thereafter often set the tone for the rest of the discussion in any given thread (on any bulletin board system, not just DBR). In this case I found ImagePro’s initial posting on to be a sort of a playground taunt, like a “Na-na-na-na-na, I know more than you do!” And it continues through to his latest posting about how Woody Durham and Eric Montross raved about Pocius, leading me to the conclusion that his message is effectively saying “If even Carolina fans praise Pocius then the rest of you who don’t do so must be idiots.” He doesn’t say those exact words, but that’s the message he’s giving. (And if you can’t recognize that, ImagePro, then you really are the childish playground bully your posts often portray you as.)

Everyone needs to take a “chill pill” as my then teen-age daughter used to tell me and look at the facts. Pocius has been injured most of the season and that’s why he’s not playing. There it is, plain and simple. All this debate is moot.

Perhaps the emotion in this thread is high because we lost last night. But that happens. Now is especially the time to focus on the positive. Not fight each other on matters that most seem to be uniformed about. Let’s get back to business. We have a tournament to focus on. Let’s do that instead of squabbling like a bunch of elementary school kids. I’m sure that’s what K and the team will be doing.

Grey Devil

[CMS2478]

He hasn't been hurt the whole year, he was out for like 1 or 2 games.....and his defense it MUCH BETTER....so next excuse!!!