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  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by HoKogan View Post
    Nobody here knows Duke's NIL situation. Nobody knows Jeremy's financial situation, so speculating his motivations along those lines seems uncalled for
    I think it's completely reasonable. If we are being honest with ourselves, the entire sport is based on this now.

    I hate that it's come to this but it's where we are.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Phredd3 View Post
    Do U.S. schools...excuse me, do the collectives nominally attached to, but unaffiliated with, U.S. schools pay more than foreign leagues these days? My hope is that his focus is on being a professional basketball player. If Kentucky['s collective] can pay more than a Euro-team somewhere, and if he can't get a look in the NBA, why wouldn't he treat Kentucky['s collective] as the best open option?

    Either way, thanks Jeremy for an outstanding four years. We couldn't have asked for a better bridge from the GOAT to Jon Scheyer. And thank you, as well, for not making this a Keels-like situation where the team has to wait until the last possible second before knowing what their options are. All-in-all, this is a very courteous exit, and that is appreciated.
    There have been transfers/players that were estimated to be making $800,000+ (see Hunter Dickinson, Bacot, Jared).

    But China apparently pays $1m-$3m on average per annum.

    With the Euro League at around $500k-$800k on average. Top players get $2m-4m.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by jamos14 View Post
    I think it's completely reasonable. If we are being honest with ourselves, the entire sport is based on this now.

    I hate that it's come to this but it's where we are.
    Its also completely reasonable to see that Roach wants to play pro ball, wants an ideal location to showcase what he brings his last year, and maybe doesn't see next years team as an ideal situation for him specifically. Roach may have come into this season already with the mindset that this was his last year at Duke, especially if he is graduating. Not everyone is a mercenary, some are just 22 year olds trying to make the most of their last opportunities.

    I don't know. In some ways I get some of the handwringing of the longtime fans that can't imagine why a captain would transfer and maybe 20 years ago that would have been anathema. We've been been in an era where Duke rarely retains anybody noteworthy for 4 years, especially the caliber of a starting guard. Grayson is the last one I can think of, he was a rarity then and that was 6 years ago. Roach moving on to somewhere else makes sense in more than strictly financial terms. We have motivated players that want to succeed. Roach did not abandon his team. We should wish him well and hope he succeeds. I mean Jake Bobo got to the NFL through his one season at UCLA but the dude is a Blue Devil all the way. Roach is the same to me.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ash View Post
    Iím just baffled. Never imagined weíd have a guy like Jer transfer. 4 year starter? Captain? PG? Maybe heíll just go pro.

    I would think heíd get plenty of minutesÖ 80 minutes for 3 guards.

    Doesnít Duke have any NIL money?

    Is it just about not getting enough shots?

    Completely baffled. Never in my 35ish years of Duke fandom could I have fathomed this, and doubly so as someone who wishes I could have been at Duke even longer than my four years.

    Good luck to Jer, but hard to really be thinking that right now for me.

    Some of yíall need to get a grip. roach has played 4 years and not drawn nba interest. He has one last chance to showcase himself. The last 4 years were spent as a ball dominant guard albeit decidedly not a point guard. Heís going to have to show playmaking ability and that wonít happen if heís another cog in the machine splitting reps with Proctor and Foster.

    In addition, The coaches have made it clear next years team is based on Flagg and Khaman. Brendan Marks all but said the priority was on Proctor because heís a playmaker.

    Jeremy needs to be somewhere where he can be the focal point of the offense as a guard. It wasnít going to be on next years team. This is a good move for both Roach and Duke.

    And thatís assuming he doesnít go forward with the nba
    Last edited by Alan_Wilson; 04-17-2024 at 08:53 AM.

  5. #85
    scottdude8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoKogan View Post
    You know, it could be that after 4 seasons and a degree, Roach's time at Duke is just naturally finished and he's ready for a change. It also appears that he still has ambitions of being a pro player and wants to be more heavily involved in the offense for his last college season if the NBA eval doesn't work out just yet.
    Nobody here knows Duke's NIL situation. Nobody knows Jeremy's financial situation, so speculating his motivations along those lines seems uncalled for
    This, 100%. We keep forgetting that Jeremy returning would've been a "bonus" from the COVID year anyways. It's totally understandable if Jeremy just wanted a change of scenery after completing his usual 4 year career at Duke. Heck, even if this is an NIL driven decision that's understandable, although I have to believe we would've/could've made a strong offer if that was the case.
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  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    This, 100%. We keep forgetting that Jeremy returning would've been a "bonus" from the COVID year anyways. It's totally understandable if Jeremy just wanted a change of scenery after completing his usual 4 year career at Duke. Heck, even if this is an NIL driven decision that's understandable, although I have to believe we would've/could've made a strong offer if that was the case.
    I think its a two-fold decision for Jeremy. Obviously he's looking for a nice NIL package, as he should, but I think he's also looking for an opportunity to run an offense and exhibit to NBA personnel that he has PG skills. With the return of Proctor and Foster, two ball-dominant guards, that just wasnt going to happen at Duke this year, especially if Scheyer is looking to get away from the 3 guard lineup.

    Like so many here, I have mixed emotions about this personally. But most of all, I understand. And I'm happy that Roach has this alleyway to continue playing in the collegiate game while getting paid, if the NBA process doesnt work out for him this year.

    As Michael Corleone said, "It's not personal. It's strictly business." And that is exactly what the college game has become, a business.

    Just please Jerm, wherever you go, please do NOT end up in Lexington, for the love of everything holy, dont go to Lexington!!!

  7. #87
    We had you for four great years Jeremy, lotís of special memories. I would have loved to have seen you one more year, but I know itís time for you to go chase your dreams. Thanks Jeremy for everything! I will miss you!

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Ash View Post
    I donít think we have ever had a player of JRs quality or position (not PG, I mean like status and standing and tenure) leave until just now.

    Given that the only difference between the last howevermany years and now is oodles and oodles of cash, I suspect it isnít a desire to take classes elsewhere or a girlfriend.




    As for other players getting time on the floorÖ freshmen who arenít a top top recruit donít always get tons of minutes for us. Outside of Cooper, not sure we have a player who is an obvious player to push a 5th year captain to the bench or to fewer minutes.

    And obviously I donít want JR to make a choice bc of what I want; I just donít quite get it.

    To have a player leave Duke like this, if he DOES go somewhere elseÖ it feels like a bit of a rejection and sort of undermines his career achievements here, in my humble opinion. This kind of sucks for me, as a fan. Sorry. Was really hoping he would be here this year to lead this team
    Completely agree with this. Can you imagine Grant Hill or Christian Laettner or any of the 4 year Duke heroes being given an extra year and deciding to go to another college? Would be outright sad I think, but of course understandable because the sums of money are getting so huge that other colleges are seemingly offering...

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by HoKogan View Post
    Its also completely reasonable to see that Roach wants to play pro ball, wants an ideal location to showcase what he brings his last year, and maybe doesn't see next years team as an ideal situation for him specifically. Roach may have come into this season already with the mindset that this was his last year at Duke, especially if he is graduating. Not everyone is a mercenary, some are just 22 year olds trying to make the most of their last opportunities.

    I don't know. In some ways I get some of the handwringing of the longtime fans that can't imagine why a captain would transfer and maybe 20 years ago that would have been anathema. We've been been in an era where Duke rarely retains anybody noteworthy for 4 years, especially the caliber of a starting guard. Grayson is the last one I can think of, he was a rarity then and that was 6 years ago. Roach moving on to somewhere else makes sense in more than strictly financial terms. We have motivated players that want to succeed. Roach did not abandon his team. We should wish him well and hope he succeeds. I mean Jake Bobo got to the NFL through his one season at UCLA but the dude is a Blue Devil all the way. Roach is the same to me.
    Bobo is a great comp. Thanks. I am very sorry Jeremy isn't coming back and it will really pain me to see him in another college uniform. And I absolutely hate this new culture of constant transfers. But in all cases, they owe me nothing. And in his in particular, he really owes me nothing. He stuck around for four years. He got his degree. He was a model citizen.

    Not to ruin anyone's breakfast, and I'm fairly sure he would not do this because it would require a lot of chutzpah, but if Cadeau leaves UNC and Davis and Ingram stick around so they have some returning talent, and Roach wants to be a true point guard, he would slide into Cadeau's spot very well. If Cadeau is leaving (unclear), it would be malpractice for Hubert to not at least make the call. And hopefully Jeremy's response would be GTHCGTH.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by FastBreak View Post
    Completely agree with this. Can you imagine Grant Hill or Christian Laettner or any of the 4 year Duke heroes being given an extra year and deciding to go to another college? Would be outright sad I think, but of course understandable because the sums of money are getting so huge that other colleges are seemingly offering...
    I don't see this as a massive referendum on Duke basketball. He signed with Duke. He played four years (a lot more than most). He's fulfilled his obligation/requirement/duty. Now he wants to do something else.

    Maybe he will tell us the reasons one day, maybe not. He absolutely doesn't owe the program or the fans anything at all.

    He has given us some very good seasons and some excellent moments. I wish him all the best in his future endeavors.

  11. #91
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    I wish Jeremy nothing but success regardless of where he goes. In an era where we don't have starter level players staying four years, and where that person is also a team captain for two, Jeremy has shown a tremendous level of commitment to Duke. As someone who is closing in on his 40th reunion, I have no doubt that he has given everything a reasonable fan could want from him. I want to thank him for all he has done for our program.

    As an aside, we all know that the NBA devalues players who stay 4 years as having approached their ceiling. I suspect that had Jeremy played a similar role to last year on this year's team it would have hurt his draft stock. Jeremy deserves the chance to bet on himself and I hope it works out.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Daddylawman View Post
    I wish Jeremy nothing but success regardless of where he goes. In an era where we don't have starter level players staying four years, and where that person is also a team captain for two, Jeremy has shown a tremendous level of commitment to Duke. As someone who is closing in on his 40th reunion, I have no doubt that he has given everything a reasonable fan could want from him. I want to thank him for all he has done for our program.

    As an aside, we all know that the NBA devalues players who stay 4 years as having approached their ceiling. I suspect that had Jeremy played a similar role to last year on this year's team it would have hurt his draft stock. Jeremy deserves the chance to bet on himself and I hope it works out.
    Yeah. It feels weird for users of this site who are aching for four year players to be bent out of shape that Roach isn't sticking around for five.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by FastBreak View Post
    Completely agree with this. Can you imagine Grant Hill or Christian Laettner or any of the 4 year Duke heroes being given an extra year and deciding to go to another college? Would be outright sad I think, but of course understandable because the sums of money are getting so huge that other colleges are seemingly offering...
    Apples and oranges. Neither Grant nor Christian would be here for 2 years, much less 4 under current rules.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan_Wilson View Post
    In addition, The coaches have made it clear next years team is based on Flagg and Khaman. Brendan Marks all but said the priority was on Proctor because heís a playmaker.

    Jeremy needs to be somewhere where he can be the focal point of the offense as a guard. It wasnít going to be on next years team. This is a good move for both Roach and Duke.
    FIFY. I don't think Duke is a better team with Roach leaving, period. He was the most valuable guard we had on the team last year, and that includes Tyrese. Given the floor awareness of Flagg (and potentially of K2), I think it is arguably the case that next year is the year we will need more of an attacking mindset at guard than a facilitating one. Also, Jeremy's facilitation skills have dramatically improved during his 4 years at Duke. Jeremy would have fit like a glove, IMO.

    I can't argue with Jeremy over his choice. It's a perfectly reasonable option for him to move on, whether his motivation is money, closure, a desire to be an offensive focal point or whatever. But I really do not think it is better for Duke.

    Best of luck, Jeremy. We will miss you!

  15. #95
    While it is sad that Jeremy is moving on and genuinely depressing that he may suit up for another university, he did give Duke and its fans four years of truly wonderful basketball. By all accounts, he represented the university well and will graduate with a Duke degree. I'm not sure we, as fans, can ask for more than that. I will miss Jeremy and wish him well as he moves on to the next stage.

  16. #96
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is online now Moderator, Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
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    I think a personal anecdote that is (surprisingly!) relevant here may be of interest.

    My senior year at Duke I decided to pursue grad school. Initially, staying at Duke was my first choice... why wouldn't it be given how great of a school Duke is and how much I loved it there? But after talking to my advisors, I was explicitly told what was best for my career was not to stay at Duke, but actually move on: getting my grad degree at another institution would show that I received a wider breadth of training that would make me better prepared for the next steps in my career and more attractive on the job market.

    Maybe, just maybe, that's what is going on with Jeremy. Maybe he, in concert with the staff, realized that another year of starring at Duke, but in the primarily off ball role that he'd play alongside either Tyrese or Caleb, wasn't best for his future aspirations... perhaps he needed to go somewhere where he could work on and showcase his traditional point guard skills. We may never know for sure, but I imagine we'll get some idea based on where he chooses and what that roster looks like.

    Jeremy leaving Duke doesn't mean that Duke didn't want him or that Jeremy doesn't love Duke. But sometimes, after four years, you need something new to fill out your resume.
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  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Dukehk View Post
    There have been transfers/players that were estimated to be making $800,000+ (see Hunter Dickinson, Bacot, Jared).

    But China apparently pays $1m-$3m on average per annum.

    With the Euro League at around $500k-$800k on average. Top players get $2m-4m.
    I think Tyger Campbell is a good comp here. He had one year of eligibility left at UCLA and would have made more money in college, but his coach said he just wanted to move on with his career, and now he plays in France where he probably barely makes $100k. This might be Jeremyís mindset.

    Would absolutely suck seeing Jeremy in another college uniform, but he will always be one of our guys and he owes Duke bball nothing.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    Jeremy leaving Duke doesn't mean that Duke didn't want him or that Jeremy doesn't love Duke. But sometimes, after four years, you need something new to fill out your resume.
    Absolutely. It feels disingenuous to assume it is either a basketball or a money move, and that Duke was seen as lacking in one of these regards.

  19. #99
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    Best of luck to you, Jeremy! It was a pleasure having such a talented player at Duke for 4 years. If there's a chance, please come back. If not, I understand the desire to try some place new, or just get a larger paycheck.

    May success follow you always.

  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Phredd3 View Post
    FIFY. I don't think Duke is a better team with Roach leaving, period. He was the most valuable guard we had on the team last year, and that includes Tyrese. Given the floor awareness of Flagg (and potentially of K2), I think it is arguably the case that next year is the year we will need more of an attacking mindset at guard than a facilitating one. Also, Jeremy's facilitation skills have dramatically improved during his 4 years at Duke. Jeremy would have fit like a glove, IMO.

    I can't argue with Jeremy over his choice. It's a perfectly reasonable option for him to move on, whether his motivation is money, closure, a desire to be an offensive focal point or whatever. But I really do not think it is better for Duke.

    Best of luck, Jeremy. We will miss you!
    I am very skeptical of the hypothesis that Jeremy's facilitation skills dramatically improved over his four years at Duke. He has always seemed fairly limited in that regard to me, which hasn't been ideal considering his size, workload, etc. Here are his assist number from freshman to senior season.

    Assist %: 16.9, 16.9, 18.7, 18.0
    Assists/100 poss.: 5.8, 6.3, 5.7, 5.9
    Assists/40 min: 4.0, 4.3, 3.7, 4.0

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