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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by freshmanjs View Post
    Duke has welcomed almost 30 transfers for football over the last 3 years. Period.
    Period.

    Isn't that redundant?

  2. #182
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Easy, folks.

    -jk

  3. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by johnb View Post
    I'm guessing you were joking, but one nice thing about the Duke recruits is that they almost uniformly appear to be interested in school and genuinely sad to leave the place. Life is complicated, and there are competing opportunities, I don't think Duke basketball will ever become a minor league NBA farm club without a link to classes.

    Listen to the interviews and watch the podcasts. These kids, by and large, seem genuine. I see commitment to the team, real emotion, and hardly any interest in money and social media (at least during the season). For 5 months, the Brotherhood telecasts went on the backburner, even McCain reduced his online activity. Do our players rethink things after the season? Yes, and they should. They are surrounded be successful adults who do the same thing. Would their Duke assistant coaches listen to head coaching opportunities? Would Scheyer listen if the Bulls called to ask if he'd be interested if/when Donovan needs replacement? Would their professors listen if Yale or Caltech offered endowed professorships? Sure, and they should. Would they leave? Dunno. Would they use the offers to leverage Duke for a better situation? Sure. That doesn't make them disloyal. It comes with being one of the best at what you do.
    I am not really sure if I was joking. The comment (which was applicable less to Duke basketball but more to all of college basketball) reflects my frustration with a system that has moved from 'likely' a pretense of academics being relevant to an acknowledgement that college athletics is about money and basketball (with academics being secondary (a very far second)).

    i would find it fascinating to have an honest poll of division 1 college basketball players as to how many view their education and collegiate experience as paramount - or whether NIL money and playing time drives their decision as to what college to attend. That question may appear to come with a bias - but I am not actually criticizing or blaming kids who view academics as secondary. That is a choice and we all have a right to make a choice. I just preferred the pretense of student athlete rather than the confirmation that it is all a pretense. And i do realize that kids do graduate and some of course take school seriously - perhaps far more at certain schools than others.

    Like some here, I am less interested in college basketball in a system where kids come and go (the transfer portal is now insane) and access to NIL money (not necessarily exclusively) drives what schools can get which student athletes. Again, I am not criticizing the system (it is what it is) but I personally find it difficult to maintain an interest in Duke basketball (or all college basketball) when it has become a quasi professional sports league.

    Just my take.

  4. #184
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by gaap View Post
    Duke does not take many transfers. Period.
    Thatís not the same as saying Duke needs to make changes which is factually incorrect

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by freshmanjs View Post
    Duke has welcomed almost 30 transfers for football over the last 3 years. Period.
    Overall, the University takes fewer than 100 transfers per year. The acceptance rate is in the single digits. That's what "period" means.

  6. #186
    Duke's academic reputation won't take a hit over accepting 1-2 basketball transfers every year or so that may require some negotiating on the dean's part. I took enough classes with athletes (some still around various programs) to know that by and large they weren't swinging at the same academic level as others in my class. But honestly? I'm ok with that. Not because I value sports above all, but because all of us bring different things to campus and the school/student body is richer for having folks of varying talents. I definitely knew a bunch of non-athletes with famous last names who weren't swinging at that level either.

    Now, 15 years out from graduating, I've worked with plenty of folks across the country...some who come from elite prestigious universities, some who come from top to mid-tier state schools, and others who never graduated secondary school, and there have been phenomenal folks in all those buckets. As long as an athlete's credits aren't fake schools (cough cough UNC), I have no conceptual issue with lowering the Duke floor (assuming that there is one and that it is a barrier) as long as these are students in good standing from decent schools. Duke provides oodles of resources for students, and I'm certain our basketball players have incredible resources. Especially given that our current coach and members of staff are Duke grads themselves, I would like to hope that our admissions department is not a road block.

    Let's also not pretend that financial considerations don't play a part in elite university credit acceptance either.

  7. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
    Duke's academic reputation won't take a hit over accepting 1-2 basketball transfers every year or so that may require some negotiating on the dean's part. I took enough classes with athletes (some still around various programs) to know that by and large they weren't swinging at the same academic level as others in my class. But honestly? I'm ok with that. Not because I value sports above all, but because all of us bring different things to campus and the school/student body is richer for having folks of varying talents. I definitely knew a bunch of non-athletes with famous last names who weren't swinging at that level either.

    Now, 15 years out from graduating, I've worked with plenty of folks across the country...some who come from elite prestigious universities, some who come from top to mid-tier state schools, and others who never graduated secondary school, and there have been phenomenal folks in all those buckets. As long as an athlete's credits aren't fake schools (cough cough UNC), I have no conceptual issue with lowering the Duke floor (assuming that there is one and that it is a barrier) as long as these are students in good standing from decent schools. Duke provides oodles of resources for students, and I'm certain our basketball players have incredible resources. Especially given that our current coach and members of staff are Duke grads themselves, I would like to hope that our admissions department is not a road block.

    Let's also not pretend that financial considerations don't play a part in elite university credit acceptance either.
    This. I've long argued that if we step back and look at what the role of college should be, it's preparing students for the future. It is quite reasonable to recognize that for a very select few student-athletes, that the act of playing basketball can rightfully be considered to lie within that mission. And just as we might accept a gifted high school poet even though his/her STEM grades were substandard, some flexibility in other academic arenas would seem reasonable if a student had special skills in athletics.

    As always, the best analogy would be a music student at a school like Oberlin. A prodigy violinist would be accepted even if, again, the STEM grades were weak. And as for preparing the students for the future, most students who play for Duke men's basketball have the option to go on to a career that initially may pay them at the least hundreds of thousands of dollars, and for some, multi-millions, generational wealth. Why is that intrinsically less valued than, say, a History major who ends up teaching at a Midwestern college?

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by clinresga View Post
    This. I've long argued that if we step back and look at what the role of college should be, it's preparing students for the future. It is quite reasonable to recognize that for a very select few student-athletes, that the act of playing basketball can rightfully be considered to lie within that mission. And just as we might accept a gifted high school poet even though his/her STEM grades were substandard, some flexibility in other academic arenas would seem reasonable if a student had special skills in athletics.

    As always, the best analogy would be a music student at a school like Oberlin. A prodigy violinist would be accepted even if, again, the STEM grades were weak. And as for preparing the students for the future, most students who play for Duke men's basketball have the option to go on to a career that initially may pay them at the least hundreds of thousands of dollars, and for some, multi-millions, generational wealth. Why is that intrinsically less valued than, say, a History major who ends up teaching at a Midwestern college?
    What you're describing is already happening. Athletes are transferring into Duke who otherwise wouldn't be accepted. So it's not a question of, do you lower the bar? It's a question of how low do you lower the bar?

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyBrickey View Post
    What you're describing is already happening. Athletes are transferring into Duke who otherwise wouldn't be accepted. So it's not a question of, do you lower the bar? It's a question of how low do you lower the bar?
    this is 100% correct. For the past 30+ years admissions have been lower for athletes. In this case, I believe that the issue is largely accepting credits from other schools. So if I transfer to Duke from MSU and they reject some of my credits, they cannot then agree to accept the same credits for a kid because he is good at basketball. At some stage, the academic integrity of an institution cannot be watered down by the 'benefits' brought by students playing sports. And let's be honest, there will always be basketball players available who meet the lesser academic standards - they just may not be as good basketball players as those that fail to meet these standards. So the 'benefits' from having a less academically accomplished student athlete are still achievable - it just means that you are not getting the best athlete on a transfer.

    Damn - that academic integrity thing getting in the way of great athletes transferring in for a year. Screwing up my basketball team's success.

  10. #190
    I think the question here is not whether athlete transfers should or should not be admitted, but which of their previous courses transfer as credits. I assume we are looking at athletes that are good students and can do the work at Duke, and the number of basketball players that made the All-ACC Academic Team seems to support that.


    I think the relevant info that has been posted on this in the past is (credit to Bluedog for some of this):

    Details of Trinity's transfer policy here:
    https://trinity.duke.edu/undergradua...ransfer-credit

    Here's the transfer admissions page:
    https://admissions.duke.edu/apply/#transfer
    "*Duke will grant credit for no more than two years of coursework completed elsewhere, regardless of the number of credits a student has previously earned. In order to earn a Duke degree, a transfer student must spend at least two years at Duke.
    *At least half the courses of all majors, minors, and certificates must be taken at Duke, although individual departments and programs offering majors may require that a greater proportion be taken at Duke."


    The other half of this is the NCAA requirements on progress towards a degree:

    http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/eligibility_...e_Transfer.pdf
    "Any undergraduate student-athlete transferring after their second year of college or later will need to transfer enough academic credit to their new Division I school to be academically eligible to compete."

    https://www.ncaa.org/sports/2021/2/1...-graduate.aspx
    "40 percent of required coursework for a degree must be complete by the end of the second year, 60 percent by the end of the third year and 80 percent by the end of their fourth year."


    I am not personally knowledgeable about how Duke determines which courses they will give credit for, but the policies seem pretty explicit.
    But, if at least half of the courses for a major must be taken at Duke, and the NCAA requires that 60% of the coursework for a degree must be completed by the end of the third year, I am not sure how we would be able to take a rising senior transfer and have them to be eligible to play. Whether we could take a rising junior would depend on how many transfer credits Duke allowed. Malik Brown is one, so we may know very soon if this is viable.
    Rising sophomores and grad students do not have these challenges.

  11. #191
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by clinresga View Post
    This. I've long argued that if we step back and look at what the role of college should be, it's preparing students for the future. It is quite reasonable to recognize that for a very select few student-athletes, that the act of playing basketball can rightfully be considered to lie within that mission. And just as we might accept a gifted high school poet even though his/her STEM grades were substandard, some flexibility in other academic arenas would seem reasonable if a student had special skills in athletics.

    As always, the best analogy would be a music student at a school like Oberlin. A prodigy violinist would be accepted even if, again, the STEM grades were weak. And as for preparing the students for the future, most students who play for Duke men's basketball have the option to go on to a career that initially may pay them at the least hundreds of thousands of dollars, and for some, multi-millions, generational wealth. Why is that intrinsically less valued than, say, a History major who ends up teaching at a Midwestern college?
    while that may be true at the university level, it is certianly not true at the college of arts and sciences level.

    I think expectation that the dean/faculty of Trinity would lower their bar for incoming transfer credits to be pretty preposterous. Many faculty would just as soon eliminate athletics altogether. (and in fact have advocated for the elimination of the athletics subsidy)
    April 1

  12. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by uh_no View Post
    while that may be true at the university level, it is certianly not true at the college of arts and sciences level.

    I think expectation that the dean/faculty of Trinity would lower their bar for incoming transfer credits to be pretty preposterous. Many faculty would just as soon eliminate athletics altogether. (and in fact have advocated for the elimination of the athletics subsidy)
    This very true - and goes to the question as to how low will you drop the bar. At some stage, we get back to the question as to how much 'student' and how much 'athlete'. Getting paid, transfer at will, lower academic requirements - seems more and more like a paid professional.

  13. #193
    Anyone know who Adam Rowe is saying is visiting tmw?

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by JGDUKE2008 View Post
    Anyone know who Adam Rowe is saying is visiting tmw?
    I think Brandon Angel

  15. #195
    Let's celebrate the league leading 8 players on the allACC Academic team. As a longtime fan I very much still care about the overall qualities of the young men in our program, including their academic success.

  16. #196
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    New Bern, NC unless it's a home football game then I'm grilling on Devil's Alley
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyBrickey View Post
    Let's celebrate the league leading 8 players on the allACC Academic team. As a longtime fan I very much still care about the overall qualities of the young men in our program, including their academic success.
    There's a thread for it.
    https://forums.dukebasketballreport...25#post1715925
    Loved seeing McCain one of the members, nice to see a OAD still taking the student part of student-athlete seriously.
    Q "Why do you like Duke, you didn't even go there." A "Because my art school didn't have a basketball team."

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by kshepinthehouse View Post
    I think Brandon Angel
    If true, it seems like Brown is the backfill for Stewart and Angel is the backfill for TJ. And all this could be wrapped up by Monday. I guess since Angel is a senior, there could be a scenario where TJ defers to Angel this season and then comes back for a major role his junior year but I think that's doubtful.

  18. #198
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by kshepinthehouse View Post
    I think Brandon Angel
    Listed at 6'8" and 240#

    Pretty impressive shooting numbers his last season at Stanford
    56.7% FG/ 44.7% 3-Pt (not huge number of attempts..34-76)/81.6% FT
    13 pts/4.7 rebounds

    https://gostanford.com/sports/mens-b...on-angel/20077

  19. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by dlmzzz View Post
    I am not personally knowledgeable about how Duke determines which courses they will give credit for, but the policies seem pretty explicit.
    But, if at least half of the courses for a major must be taken at Duke, and the NCAA requires that 60% of the coursework for a degree must be completed by the end of the third year, I am not sure how we would be able to take a rising senior transfer and have them to be eligible to play. Whether we could take a rising junior would depend on how many transfer credits Duke allowed. Malik Brown is one, so we may know very soon if this is viable.
    Rising sophomores and grad students do not have these challenges.
    We keep reiterating this policy, but if it precludes a senior transfer, then someone needs to explain to me how Duke football has taken senior transfers. DWBB too.

  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by clinresga View Post
    We keep reiterating this policy, but if it precludes a senior transfer, then someone needs to explain to me how Duke football has taken senior transfers. DWBB too.
    super smart football players. that brain injury stuff is likely bs.

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