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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by BG05 View Post
    Commentators on this Board: We can't win the NCAAs with a bunch of freshman. We need experience.

    Also, commentators on this Board: it is a good thing that Mitchell is transferring out.

    I think, rather, that it is a bad thing for Duke that he was put in a position where he basically needed to transfer out. If you want to build experience, maybe don't recruit over your existing players.
    So we should have said no to Cooper Flagg? And you do realize Mark was wanting to leave for the NBA eventually too right? And you do realize that recruiting is a multi year process?

  2. #42
    Join Date
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    Good guy, good motor, really good defensive player, decent finisher (will get better with experience), brings lots of energy, highly athletic. He just needs to restructure his shot to be a great college, then NBA player. Iíll bet heís ready to take that on, and if heís successful, heís going to be a huge get for some school. Iím bummed to see him go but hope his next chapter is a happy one.

  3. #43
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    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by ecs15 View Post
    Yes. Ironically, Mark is the type of player I always wished we would get in the portal.
    Exactly.

  4. #44
    scottdude8's Avatar
    scottdude8 is offline Moderator, Contributor, Zoubek disciple, and resident Wolverine
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecs15 View Post
    Yes. Ironically, Mark is the type of player I always wished we would get in the portal.
    A friendly reminder that this time last year, when Mark announced he was returning, all indications were that his plan (and in turn the staff's) was for "one more year" before going to the NBA. Obviously that didn't pan out as planned, but the staff recruited accordingly by prioritizing wings in this year's class, not to mention getting a guy that every college coach would sell his kidney for in Cooper Flagg.

    The only thing that has "changed" with this news is how much losing Mark stings... it'll hurt a little more seeing him in another team's uniform as opposed to playing in the pros somewhere. But, by all accounts, a 2024-25 team without Mark Mitchell was always part of Duke's plan.

    FWIW, while I agree with your sentiment generally, I think you left out an important caveat: if we were looking for a Mark Mitchell type in the portal, it'd probably be with the expectations that they'd be taking on a complimentary role, perhaps even as a backup. Not everyone of Mark's caliber would be interested in that role, and it'd be even harder to accept if you had already started and been very productive at the high major level. If you recontextualize today's news as, "Duke missed on getting Mark Mitchell in the portal," rather than, "Duke lost Mark Mitchell," it's much easier to stomach. While obvious the latter is the reality, with all the nuances involved I think the situation may have been more similar to the former than any of us will ever know.
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  5. #45
    No surprise.

    No space for him next year.

    Was a real liability on offence against the best teams.

    Hope he can work on his outside shot, but its always going to be an uphill struggle in terms of shooting for him.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by ecs15 View Post
    Yes. Ironically, Mark is the type of player I always wished we would get in the portal.
    We are going to be a VERY young team next year. Coach is in a tricky position: Maluach, Ngongba and Stewart will need all the minutes at 5 and thus crowd out our ability to get a veteran big man.

    At guard, returning Proctor or Roach would be huge. Losing both of them would mean we HAVE to go to the portal for experience (and minutes).

  7. #47
    This one (to me) seemed the most obvious after the social media post from his dad back in December. Its not a question on whether Mitchell would have gotten playing time, he would have. But would it be the role he (and maybe his family) think he should have. My speculation is that they want him to have a bigger focus on the offensive end, whereas Scheyer and the staff saw him as a hustle guy to make plays on the defense, rebound and finish on occasion. If you want something different than the coaching staff does, then this is often the result.

    Best of luck to Mark at his next destination.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Wouldnít surprise me if he ended up at Houston. They tend to go for guys who are tough physical defenders with flawed offensive games.
    Calipari at Arkansas might be a potential landing spot for him. Especially since Bazile isn't coming back.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by BG05 View Post
    Commentators on this Board: We can't win the NCAAs with a bunch of freshman. We need experience.

    Also, commentators on this Board: it is a good thing that Mitchell is transferring out.

    I think, rather, that it is a bad thing for Duke that he was put in a position where he basically needed to transfer out. If you want to build experience, maybe don't recruit over your existing players.
    Mark almost went into the draft last year. So he was not recruited over. They just didnt think he'd be back for year 3.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by FastBreak View Post
    We are going to be a VERY young team next year. Coach is in a tricky position: Maluach, Ngongba and Stewart will need all the minutes at 5 and thus crowd out our ability to get a veteran big man.

    At guard, returning Proctor or Roach would be huge. Losing both of them would mean we HAVE to go to the portal for experience (and minutes).
    We will be very young in the frontcourt next year for sure but Flagg and Maluach are projected top-5 NBA draft picks. It's a quality problem. We had a pretty good run with Frosh Banchero and Soph Williams. It can be done...

  11. #51
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by BG05 View Post
    Commentators on this Board: We can't win the NCAAs with a bunch of freshman. We need experience.

    Also, commentators on this Board: it is a good thing that Mitchell is transferring out.

    I think, rather, that it is a bad thing for Duke that he was put in a position where he basically needed to transfer out. If you want to build experience, maybe don't recruit over your existing players.
    Sigh.

    This makes the huge, and highly unlikely, assumption that both Mark and coach were counting on being at Duke a 3rd year before the season started.

    He was not PUT into this position. What if Mark ended up developing a reliable mid range shot and then decided to take off to the NBA with Jon having passed on Cooper because he wanted to see what Mark would do first. What then? Just fully rely on the transfer portal for roster construction in these cases and not recruit?

    Itís not possible to know all the scenarios that will take place at seasonís end months in advance. The chips just fall. And in this case Mark is going to have some great options. As the steward of the program Jon has to account for uncertainties a d plausibilities.
    Last edited by jipops; 04-09-2024 at 03:29 PM.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    A friendly reminder that this time last year, when Mark announced he was returning, all indications were that his plan (and in turn the staff's) was for "one more year" before going to the NBA. Obviously that didn't pan out as planned, but the staff recruited accordingly by prioritizing wings in this year's class, not to mention getting a guy that every college coach would sell his kidney for in Cooper Flagg.

    The only thing that has "changed" with this news is how much losing Mark stings... it'll hurt a little more seeing him in another team's uniform as opposed to playing in the pros somewhere. But, by all accounts, a 2024-25 team without Mark Mitchell was always part of Duke's plan.

    FWIW, while I agree with your sentiment generally, I think you left out an important caveat: if we were looking for a Mark Mitchell type in the portal, it'd probably be with the expectations that they'd be taking on a complimentary role, perhaps even as a backup. Not everyone of Mark's caliber would be interested in that role, and it'd be even harder to accept if you had already started and been very productive at the high major level. If you recontextualize today's news as, "Duke missed on getting Mark Mitchell in the portal," rather than, "Duke lost Mark Mitchell," it's much easier to stomach. While obvious the latter is the reality, with all the nuances involved I think the situation may have been more similar to the former than any of us will ever know.
    Basically, in order to have a flexible model where guys aren't pushed out the door by next years recruits, the coaching staff has to basically have a smaller recruiting class, and be confident that they can fill the holes in the roster next year with transfers. So if some upperclassmen unexpectedly decide to stay, you just then take fewer players from the portal, and if more leave than you expected, you replace more of them in the portal. When you recruit a huge incoming freshmen class, there is no flexibility. I think this is the paradigm shift the current coaching staff will have to adapt to in the future.

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Dallas, TX
    Without any presumption of blame, I wonder why Mark didn't develop as we thought he would. I wonder if that injury really set him back, or if there's something our coaching staff could be doing better.
    Pratt '09, Grad '10

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Basically, in order to have a flexible model where guys aren't pushed out the door by next years recruits, the coaching staff has to basically have a smaller recruiting class, and be confident that they can fill the holes in the roster next year with transfers. So if some upperclassmen unexpectedly decide to stay, you just then take fewer players from the portal, and if more leave than you expected, you replace more of them in the portal. When you recruit a huge incoming freshmen class, there is no flexibility. I think this is the paradigm shift the current coaching staff will have to adapt to in the future.
    I think this is right. I'm expecting a smaller 3-4 man recruiting class in 2025 with the plan that several of these rising sophs and incoming frosh will be sticking around multiple years. A class of the Boozer twins and a couple of recruits in that 15-30 range hopefully won't chase anyone off into the portal.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    A friendly reminder that this time last year, when Mark announced he was returning, all indications were that his plan (and in turn the staff's) was for "one more year" before going to the NBA. Obviously that didn't pan out as planned, but the staff recruited accordingly by prioritizing wings in this year's class, not to mention getting a guy that every college coach would sell his kidney for in Cooper Flagg.

    The only thing that has "changed" with this news is how much losing Mark stings... it'll hurt a little more seeing him in another team's uniform as opposed to playing in the pros somewhere. But, by all accounts, a 2024-25 team without Mark Mitchell was always part of Duke's plan.

    FWIW, while I agree with your sentiment generally, I think you left out an important caveat: if we were looking for a Mark Mitchell type in the portal, it'd probably be with the expectations that they'd be taking on a complimentary role, perhaps even as a backup. Not everyone of Mark's caliber would be interested in that role, and it'd be even harder to accept if you had already started and been very productive at the high major level. If you recontextualize today's news as, "Duke missed on getting Mark Mitchell in the portal," rather than, "Duke lost Mark Mitchell," it's much easier to stomach. While obvious the latter is the reality, with all the nuances involved I think the situation may have been more similar to the former than any of us will ever know.
    Agree with you on all points. Hate to see Mark leave. Wish him all best. Hope to see hm in the NBA.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by jipops View Post
    Yet, in that situation he would be looking to improve by playing a lesser role. That is quite the paradox to relegate a kid to.
    I mean, maybe? No one for sure knows how Mark would have developed over the off season. I just offered up another scenario that you left out. That a kid ďbetsĒ on himself and works hard in the program he is in.

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Richmond, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by scottdude8 View Post
    A friendly reminder that this time last year, when Mark announced he was returning, all indications were that his plan (and in turn the staff's) was for "one more year" before going to the NBA. Obviously that didn't pan out as planned, but the staff recruited accordingly by prioritizing wings in this year's class, not to mention getting a guy that every college coach would sell his kidney for in Cooper Flagg.

    The only thing that has "changed" with this news is how much losing Mark stings... it'll hurt a little more seeing him in another team's uniform as opposed to playing in the pros somewhere. But, by all accounts, a 2024-25 team without Mark Mitchell was always part of Duke's plan.

    FWIW, while I agree with your sentiment generally, I think you left out an important caveat: if we were looking for a Mark Mitchell type in the portal, it'd probably be with the expectations that they'd be taking on a complimentary role, perhaps even as a backup. Not everyone of Mark's caliber would be interested in that role, and it'd be even harder to accept if you had already started and been very productive at the high major level. If you recontextualize today's news as, "Duke missed on getting Mark Mitchell in the portal," rather than, "Duke lost Mark Mitchell," it's much easier to stomach. While obvious the latter is the reality, with all the nuances involved I think the situation may have been more similar to the former than any of us will ever know.
    If you don't mind this quote has changed my perspective on the "Who goes and who stays" discussion so I plan to move it over there with some additional comments.

  18. #58
    One thing Iíve been completely baffled about with Mark is why he didnít take this last summer to rebuild his shot. There are some incredible shot doctors out there, and not having a shot in todayís game is very tough. I have not seen anybody. Ask about it or talk about it, which feels weird.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    Basically, in order to have a flexible model where guys aren't pushed out the door by next years recruits, the coaching staff has to basically have a smaller recruiting class, and be confident that they can fill the holes in the roster next year with transfers. So if some upperclassmen unexpectedly decide to stay, you just then take fewer players from the portal, and if more leave than you expected, you replace more of them in the portal. When you recruit a huge incoming freshmen class, there is no flexibility. I think this is the paradigm shift the current coaching staff will have to adapt to in the future.
    Yes, but if our recruits also transfer at higher rates, we'll need to compensate with larger classes. No gain, I suggest.

  20. #60
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    Bozeman, MT and Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by ecs15 View Post
    Without any presumption of blame, I wonder why Mark didn't develop as we thought he would. I wonder if that injury really set him back, or if there's something our coaching staff could be doing better.
    If we're looking at coaching staffs, I'd suggest the coaches who let Mark keep that ugly shot in high school! :-)

    I still wonder how that could happen. Maybe Mark never relied on his jumper in high school. Or he just refused to learn a more traditional shooting style. Either way, gonna need to fix it to have a future in professional basketball. I hope he does.

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