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  1. #1561
    Quote Originally Posted by evrim View Post
    I get tired reading about it and I am 50. Coach K and other legends were smart and left when they were at the top. This is not for the faint of heart!

    This transfer stuff needs to stop if NCAA is to survive.
    Amen!

  2. #1562
    Quote Originally Posted by RepoMan View Post
    Respectfully, but we have recruited like this and expected players to compete like this for over 30 years. I hope we donít stop.
    Exactly.

  3. #1563
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    The pursuit of Angel was pretty good sign that TJ was leaving. I think the pursuit of Brown is a similar sign for Stewart. There are no guarantees Duke gets those transfer targets. I just think it puts the writing on the wall.

  4. #1564
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    You said: Nobody would enter the Fall as clearly ahead of him at the 3 which is his natural position.

    I think heíd be third at 3
    You must have me confused with another poster. I donít understand these 1,2,3,4,5s and question whether they are very important (put the best 5 on the floor!). So I am sure i didnít make the comment you attribute to me.

  5. #1565
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hot'Lanta... home of the Falcons!
    Duke fans: We need to get older and take advantage of the portal!! Look at how all these other teams are doing it!!

    Also Duke fans: Why are we recruiting over our current players and chasing them away? This is not what "The Brotherhood" is all about!!


    Of course, the answer to both of the above is likely this ---
    Jon Scheyer: I need to field the best team I can... right now!
    Why are you wasting time here when you could be wasting it by listening to the latest episode of the DBR Podcast?

  6. #1566
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, DC area
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Duke fans: We need to get older and take advantage of the portal!! Look at how all these other teams are doing it!!

    Also Duke fans: Why are we recruiting over our current players and chasing them away? This is not what "The Brotherhood" is all about!!


    Of course, the answer to both of the above is likely this ---
    Jon Scheyer: I need to field the best team I can... right now!
    Our Brave New World!

    Until the NCAA gets an antitrust exemption to make enforceable rules, it'll get worse.

    -jk

  7. #1567
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Duke fans: We need to get older and take advantage of the portal!! Look at how all these other teams are doing it!!

    Also Duke fans: Why are we recruiting over our current players and chasing them away? This is not what "The Brotherhood" is all about!!


    Of course, the answer to both of the above is likely this ---
    Jon Scheyer: I need to field the best team I can... right now!

    We talk a a lot about Jon's recruiting and roster building strategy...Jason summarized it in bold.

    I will also add that in the middle of the season when Duke needs a win none of us are talking about sitting Tyrese, Caleb and Cooper so that other players don't transfer at the end of the year.

    Now in early season games that are blow-outs there may be a case to playing deep into the bench, but not in January, February and especially March.

  8. #1568
    Quote Originally Posted by JasonEvans View Post
    Duke fans: We need to get older and take advantage of the portal!! Look at how all these other teams are doing it!!

    Also Duke fans: Why are we recruiting over our current players and chasing them away? This is not what "The Brotherhood" is all about!!


    Of course, the answer to both of the above is likely this ---
    Jon Scheyer: I need to field the best team I can... right now!
    I for one also love Sean but if you had your choice to win in the upcoming season to maximize Cooperís minuscule window,who would you rather go with and who is a better fit for the team, this coming year- Sean or Brown? Alternatively, is there any way both of them could be on the roster this coming season. What are the odds we retain Sean?

  9. #1569
    By the way, if Sean leaves, we are down to 2 returning players, the exact number Jon inherited from K. The difference is they are Jonís players but just 2 nevertheless. Not much culture continuity.

  10. #1570
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Lewisville, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by -jk View Post
    Our Brave New World!

    Until the NCAA gets an antitrust exemption to make enforceable rules, it'll get worse.

    -jk
    Amen.

    There is now one-and-done to the NBA, and

    One-and-disappointed to the portal.

  11. #1571
    Quote Originally Posted by jipops View Post
    The pursuit of Angel was pretty good sign that TJ was leaving. I think the pursuit of Brown is a similar sign for Stewart. There are no guarantees Duke gets those transfer targets. I just think it puts the writing on the wall.
    How do we know who is pursuing who?

  12. #1572
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by Messimorgan17 View Post
    I for one also love Sean but if you had your choice to win in the upcoming season to maximize Cooperís minuscule window,who would you rather go with and who is a better fit for the team, this coming year- Sean or Brown? Alternatively, is there any way both of them could be on the roster this coming season. What are the odds we retain Sean?
    Brown coming likely pushes Stewart down the frontcourt rotation - Flagg, Maluach, Brown, Stewart, Ngongba.

    Would you rather be 4th or 3rd in the frontcourt rotation coming off a year where you did not play altogether in 3 games and averaged 8 minutes?

    I dont pretend to know what goes on in these conversations, but I'll leave this article here. This kid REALLY wants to be at Duke. But if he goes to the portal, it begs a lot of questions.

    https://www.dukechronicle.com/articl...my-jon-scheyer

  13. #1573
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    I do not worry about Duke getting a couple of one and dones each year, as they donít think anyone is starting over them.

    Itís the 15-30 guys who think they will be up against the portal in-coming players after year 1. I would imagine thatís what Stewart is scratching his head about right now. Did they mean what they told me last year? Why go and get recruited over?

    Thatís the seed of doubt that other coaches will hammer on.

    Scheyer stated plan only works if he plays Sean Stewart ten minutes as a freshman.
    I think the short answer is these second tier recruits need to be good enough to play in year one. We've seen it with guys like Roach, Proctor, Foster, and Mitchell. Those guys contributed in year one and spent multiple years in the program. We may occasionally get lucky and get a guy like Roach for 4 years, but that's not going to happen much. Sometimes a guy will unexpectedly blow up and end up OAD, like McCain. Some will not thrive in year one and will transfer. Thankfully, NIL means more of the fringe NBA prospects are coming back. We haven't had any guys in the Frank Jackson/DJ Steward/Cassius Stanley range leave for the NBA in a couple of years.

    I think there are 3 classes of recruits for this program:

    1) OAD level freshman studs. It would be great to have 1-2 of them in any given year.

    2) Second tier recruits that stick around for multiple years. Despite the vibe over the last week, Jon has done a decent job of keeping at least some of these guys. He got Roach back for year 3 and 4. He got Proctor for year 2 and 3. He got Flip (he was a higher ranked recruit but not widely expected to be OAD), Mitchell, and Foster for year 2. The issue is we need to be realistic and understand that we're more likely to have 2-4 of these guys than 6-8 of them. There's just only so much playing time to go around.

    3) Transfers. This spring may be the big shift. The benefit of the portal is that you can get older without having to wait on guys to develop, and it gives you a do-over if guys leave unexpectedly. Going forward, I would expect we might have 2-4 of these guys in our rotation most years.

  14. #1574
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    Brown coming likely pushes Stewart down the frontcourt rotation - Flagg, Maluach, Brown, Stewart, Ngongba.

    Would you rather be 4th or 3rd in the frontcourt rotation coming off a year where you did not play altogether in 3 games and averaged 8 minutes?

    I dont pretend to know what goes on in these conversations, but I'll leave this article here. This kid REALLY wants to be at Duke. But if he goes to the portal, it begs a lot of questions.

    https://www.dukechronicle.com/articl...my-jon-scheyer
    Maybe his love for Duke, previous relationship with Cooper and realizing that he will have the opportunity to practice against other elite bigs on a day to day basis to improve while on a contender for the national championship will be enough.
    During his one year at Montverde to which he transferred for his senior year, he came off the bench and according to max preps ( Iím not sure how accurate it is) averaged only 15 minutes a game. Perhaps that will influence him one way or another.

    https://www.maxpreps.com/fl/montverd...=fnr2j8g7s3mp9

  15. #1575
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by Messimorgan17 View Post
    Maybe his love for Duke, previous relationship with Cooper and realizing that he will have the opportunity to practice against other elite bigs on a day to day basis to improve while on a contender for the national championship will be enough.
    During his one year at Montverde to which he transferred for his senior year, he came off the bench and according to max preps ( Iím not sure how accurate it is) averaged only 15 minutes a game. Perhaps that will influence him one way or another.

    https://www.maxpreps.com/fl/montverd...=fnr2j8g7s3mp9
    I hope you are right, because I would feel a lot better about the situation.

    But I think this goes the other way, and is a really ugly look.

    I'm dying to be wrong about my read of how this ends and how it went down.

  16. #1576
    People can blame whoever they want but I'm assuming that Scheyer recruiting Power to end up being a contributer by year 2. No one thought Flagg would come early. Are you gonna tell Flagg no? Heck no

  17. #1577
    Quote Originally Posted by Messimorgan17 View Post
    Maybe his love for Duke, previous relationship with Cooper and realizing that he will have the opportunity to practice against other elite bigs on a day to day basis to improve while on a contender for the national championship will be enough.
    During his one year at Montverde to which he transferred for his senior year, he came off the bench and according to max preps ( Iím not sure how accurate it is) averaged only 15 minutes a game. Perhaps that will influence him one way or another.

    https://www.maxpreps.com/fl/montverd...=fnr2j8g7s3mp9
    I'm worried he's thinking the opposite - i.e. "came off the bench senior year in HS, only got 15 minutes in games that featured Cooper. Didn't play much my freshman year at Duke and now the team will be featuring Cooper again and I still will only get 15 minutes or less a game. I need to go somewhere where I can be in the foreground not the background." I hope he's thinking about playing on a national championship contending team, but I won't be surprised if he's not.

  18. #1578
    Quote Originally Posted by superdave View Post
    I hope you are right, because I would feel a lot better about the situation.

    But I think this goes the other way, and is a really ugly look.

    I'm dying to be wrong about my read of how this ends and how it went down.
    But we dont know how it went down, and we probably never will. What if the premise behind your read is incorrect? What if the situation was actually that Stewart told Jon in his end of season meeting/interview that he expected to get 25+ minutes next season. And that if he couldnt essentially guarantee him 25+ minutes that he would enter the portal? And that along with his 25+ mpg, he expected X amount in NIL?

    I certainly do not know how it went down, but in this day and age of player empowerment, is this explanation not plausible?

    The bigger point I want to make here is we have to stop looking at this situation, and any other situation where a player enters/may enter the portal, as if there has to be a protagonist and an antagonist. There doesnt. There are going to be situations where it's mutually beneficial for a player to transfer. I'm not saying that a potential Stewart transfer fits this definition, but it could. But if he does indeed transfer, there doesnt have to be a good guy and a bad guy. There doesnt have to be someone at fault.

  19. #1579
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    New York
    Having read and contributed to this board for a few years, I find (understandably) that some contributors embrace the young players we recruit.
    Then while watching through our blue Duke bifocals, we get upset when other folks are recruited or transfer in and take time away from our original embraced ones.

    But the rules of engagement have changed, folks.

    Jon and the staff must fill a new roster every year with the best team they can. Period.
    Feeling will be hurt and hearts broken because that's not how we did it previously and it undercuts the feeling of Brotherhood.

    We are in a Brave New World of College sports, and either we embrace that change or watch our rivals do so at our peril.

  20. #1580
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by TywinBlue View Post
    Having read and contributed to this board for a few years, I find (understandably) that some contributors embrace the young players we recruit.
    Then while watching through our blue Duke bifocals, we get upset when other folks are recruited or transfer in and take time away from our original embraced ones.

    But the rules of engagement have changed, folks.

    Jon and the staff must fill a new roster every year with the best team they can. Period.
    Feeling will be hurt and hearts broken because that's not how we did it previously and it undercuts the feeling of Brotherhood.

    We are in a Brave New World of College sports, and either we embrace that change or watch our rivals do so at our peril.
    I disagree for a few reasons.

    First, I do not think a lot of credits will transfer in to Duke so the actual portal players Duke can get are far fewer than say Kansas can take. So we have an inherent portal disadvantage. Why lean in to a strategy where others have an advantage?

    Second, if you recruit a high school kid at ages 16-18 that is much greater commitment than to a 21 year old man from the portal with 2-3 years of college behind them. One is more of a pathway for college and career, the other is a lot more transactional.

    I would never argue that we cannot grab Flagg a year early and pursue Maluach because we already have Stewart. My argument is Stewart should have a reasonable path to increasing minutes in year 2, be a top 6 or better rotation player by year 3 and be a starter year 4, or some approximation of that path. Taking Brown and telling Stewart you might be at 8 minutes per game a again this year undermines the commitment and pathway.

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