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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Durham, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by bundabergdevil View Post
    Have any suggested reading? I’d be interested in learning more.
    Unfortunately, I don't. My view comes from conversations with Duke faculty, including my spouse, who is involved with graduate admissions in both her department and an interdisciplinary graduate program.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    Thanks for bringing this up. I was just reading this article and trying to understand exactly what it means in plain English. It sounds like they use a formula to do general grouping and essays will be considered but outside the core formula. It is a shame how corporate this process has become that this is now necessary. And I have heard many applicants complain that if you are not in a preferred group, you can't get into college unless you have a traumatic experience to share in your essay - you are penalized for having a normal childhood. So perhaps they got tired of sob stories.

    My son is in the 8th grade and is applying to private high schools. Most require some type of an essay. He also had to take a standardized test (the ISEE). As part of the test, there is a short essay component. This does not factor into your score, but schools receive it. Apparently, it is considered to see how well an applicant can write without outside help. Obviously, there are plenty of ways to prepare for this as the questions are relatively standard and predictable, but the concept actually makes a lot of sense.

    By the way, Guttentag has been at Duke since 1992, so apparently I was one of the first applicants he accepted. Amazing that he is now likely seeing second generation applicants.
    I'm glad they're doing away with essays since there has never been a meaningful way to really figure out who really wrote an essay (unless it is obviously plagiarized)..and I say this as someone who wrote a rather inspired essay which got me into a grad school a good bit more selective than my grades would have warranted...(the college prep stuff I learn from parents these days blows my mind)

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North of Chicago
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Could be wrong, but I’d hazard a guess that your example is quite rare.

    Regardless, well done, mate. You must either be very bright or a hard worker. Probably both.
    I don't know that it is *that* rare. I had 27 in my HS graduating class. There were at least two others in my fraternity while I was at Duke from similarly small, rural environments with small high school classes.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Could be wrong, but I’d hazard a guess that your example is quite rare.

    Regardless, well done, mate. You must either be very bright or a hard worker. Probably both.
    Thanks. I consider myself bright, but how does one say that without sounding conceited?

    Hard worker? Sadly, no. I’m the guy you want if you want new ideas, not the one you want to reliably and energetically execute them.

    As far as the most important question - how often do SATs actually benefit applicants from poor backgrounds, I just don't know the answer to that. I just know they were the gateway for this monetarily-poor high schooler’s admission to an Ivy.
    Last edited by Skydog; Yesterday at 12:33 PM.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    Thanks. I consider myself bright, but how does one say that without sounding conceited?

    Hard worker? Sadly, no. I’m the guy you want if you want new ideas, not the one you want to reliably and energetically execute them.

    As far as the most important question - how often do SATs actually benefit applicants from poor backgrounds, I just don't know the answer to that. I just know they were the gateway for this monetarily-poor high schooler’s admission to an Ivy.
    Dartmouth and Yale think submitting SATs WILL help poorer kids because they DO take economic background into consideration when looking at the tests (this is what they're saying).

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Skydog View Post
    As far as the most important question - how often do SATs actually benefit applicants from poor backgrounds, I just don't know the answer to that. I just know they were the gateway for this monetarily-poor high schooler’s admission to an Ivy.
    Quote Originally Posted by budwom View Post
    Dartmouth and Yale think submitting SATs WILL help poorer kids because they DO take economic background into consideration when looking at the tests (this is what they're saying).
    A low-income student from disadvantaged high school scoring for example in the 25th percentile of accepted students for an elite school would actually be viewed FAVORABLY by adcoms and help their admissions chances. But unfortunately, those students are unaware of this fact and choose to simply not submit the scores because they assume they are on the lower end compared to their peerset. With the lack of information, the school has to 'guess' WHICH student WOULD Have scored fairly high, but apparently they're often guessing wrong these days, so they want that datapoint back.

    So, admissions is perhaps MORE random now than it was before. So, the new test optional policy can (randomly) help certain those low-income students who now get the roulette wheel to land on them and hurts those low-income students where the roulette wheel doesn't land on them but would have in the past. So, it's likely not as simple as bringing back SATs helps poor students, but it allows adcoms to more confidently ADMIT more poor students because they have additional data showing that they can do the work and be successful. Otherwise, they're doing more guesswork and hoping things work out.
    Last edited by Bluedog; Yesterday at 01:27 PM.

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