Duke 74, MSU 65 Post Game Thread

[tommy]

That would be an odd place for a Knueppel.



I agree. My initial reply was to a poster that implied it was important to get a portal big next year. Assuming Cooper, Sean, TJ, Christian, and Pat are on next year's team, how many players are needed to cover 80 minutes?

Needed? Three. Preferable, as judged by the history of K and Jon? I'd say 4 to 4.5.

[lotusland]

I would say the "potentially more talented guys" or "higher-ceiling guys". Right now, I would say that Young is more talented.

And no, I don't agree that not playing those guys is stunting their progression. They are getting their chances in practice. If they earn those minutes, they'll play. But you can't assume that they are going to earn those minutes later, and winning these games now matters (because as we've seen, Duke's tourney success is very seed-dependent). So the appropriate thing to do is to play the guy who makes your team better now. You reassess later if need be.

But Young is getting better in practice too by that logic so why waste PT on him when we could develop guys for the post season and next year. The truth is that practice experience is less valuable than scrimmage game experience which is far less valuable than actual game experience. We’ll see what Jon has in mind. My view is that cupcake games are where Ryan can be most effective but also where we need him the least. Let’s get Stewart and a Reeves at least 20 minuted each in all 3 games then evaluate where they are before the Arky game.

[lotusland]

I'm going to push back on the "poor defender" label. Young is capable of physical defense down low, and his hedging in the MSU game helped take their guards out of their plays. Nothing in the stats shows bad interior defense in either the Michigan State game or the Arizona game. Arizona's Ballo is listed as one of the top 20 players in the nation, and we held him to 50% from the field, barely any foul shots, and he got only 5 rebounds.

What in Young's performance THIS year looks bad in terms of his defense?

His ability to guard PNRs and post scorers is bad. He’s a good Larry Bird style rebounder because he doesn’t jump. Bird was also sub par defender but he was also Larry freakin’ Bird. Young is an objectively poor defender. He knows where to be on the floor, which is helpful, but he’s a poor defender everywhere on the floor. Also he’s a bad option as “point forward” in half court offense because he’s no threat to turn and face the basket or put the ball on the floor. That’s why he’s left unguarded outside of the lane. It’s good to have Young leadership and for foul trouble situations, but I don’t like him as the first option off the bench down low.

[CDu]

But Young is getting better in practice too by that logic so why waste PT on him when we could develop guys for the post season and next year. The truth is that practice experience is less valuable than scrimmage game experience which is far less valuable than actual game experience. We’ll see what Jon has in mind. My view is that cupcake games are where Ryan can be most effective but also where we need him the least. Let’s get Stewart and a Reeves at least 20 minuted each in all 3 games then evaluate where they are before the Arky game.

This makes no sense. If Young continues to be better in practice than Stewart and Reeves, then Young should play. If Reeves and/or Stewart get better than Young in practice then they should play. You shouldn’t give game experience to the guys who have shown in practice that they aren’t ready. You should give them game experience when they show they ARE ready in practice.

Your desire to get Stewart and Reeves 20 minutes each in all 3 games, simply isn’t going to happen. They will undoubtedly play more than they have thus far (simply a function of those games being less close).

[dlmzzz]

His ability to guard PNRs and post scorers is bad. He’s a good Larry Bird style rebounder because he doesn’t jump. Bird was also sub par defender but he was also Larry freakin’ Bird. Young is an objectively poor defender. He knows where to be on the floor, which is helpful, but he’s a poor defender everywhere on the floor. Also he’s a bad option as “point forward” in half court offense because he’s no threat to turn and face the basket or put the ball on the floor. That’s why he’s left unguarded outside of the lane. It’s good to have Young leadership and for foul trouble situations, but I don’t like him as the first option off the bench down low.

"His ability to guard ... post scorers is bad"

Please point out the sequences THIS SEASON where that has been the case. Ballo is one of the best post oriented centers in the nation. Against us, his offensive rating was 82. When you hold the opponent's highest usage player to that bad a rating, I have no idea how you can say that we aren't doing a really good job of guarding him. Against Arizona, there were a great many post sequences where they could not finish against us.

Look, I know he is polarizing, and it seems clear that a lot of people have already made their minds up about him. But the evidence THIS YEAR just doesn't match those opinions.

[Phredd3]

Look, I know he is polarizing, and it seems clear that a lot of people have already made their minds up about him. But the evidence THIS YEAR just doesn't match those opinions.

It last year doesn't match those opinions, either, honestly. Young has positive defensive numbers from his entire time at Duke. Are there matchups or games where he's a defensive liability? Sure, and Arizona was the prime example of that. He was horrible in that game. He was a positive factor in the other games this season, including MSU, and in most of his game last season, too. He'll never be a great defender, and he has definite limitations. But that's different from being a bad defender, which overall he is not.

[Dr. Maturin]

We're talking about a back up big man here. Flip has played around 30 mpg so far, and I expect that number to be higher in big games (last year he played 35 @ UNC, 35 in the ACC title game, and 38 against Tennessee). The question for this team may be less about the backup big man, and more about the team figuring out how to win with Flip at the 5. So far, the team is still learning. Jon has leaned on the Flip-Young lineup, and statistically, that has been Duke's best lineup so far - see the below screenshot from cbbanalytics.com. Whether that continues remains to be seen.

I am excited to see Sean Stewart develop. I think he has a lot to offer and offers more flexibility as I think he could potentially play alongside Flip, Mitchell, or both in the frontcourt. It is possible that he eventually replaces a lot of Young's minutes. It is also possible that Young's minutes drop simply because Jon decides to ride the 5-out lineups more often.

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[lotusland]

This makes no sense. If Young continues to be better in practice than Stewart and Reeves, then Young should play. If Reeves and/or Stewart get better than Young in practice then they should play. You shouldn’t give game experience to the guys who have shown in practice that they aren’t ready. You should give them game experience when they show they ARE ready in practice.

Your desire to get Stewart and Reeves 20 minutes each in all 3 games, simply isn’t going to happen. They will undoubtedly play more than they have thus far (simply a function of those games being less close).

Well you said it doesn’t make sense but you didn’t really make the case. You just repeated what you said before as if it’s an indisputable truth, which it is not. I don’t think Young’s game is great fit with this team. I don’t want Flip to still be the shot blocker when we have another center in the game. That doesn’t protect his foul situation as he is not a great shot blocker either. Ryan is half court post up player who is effective only against non shot blockers. He clogs the middle on offense . Reeves has played decent on limited action. He’s shown he can run, block shots and catch lobs. He needs to get stronger on the boards and live action PT will help as it did for Plumlee hands. Stewart is fast, athletic and can run on offense be a disrupter on D whether playing 4 or 5. Higher ceiling with those guys. Also playing them fulfills Jon’s change ondirection for recruiting which I love. It’s just my opinion and about all I have left to say on the topic.