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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Okay, last night somebody named Jordan Hawkins scored 25 pts (5-12 from 3-pt) with 6 rebounds and 3 assists for New Orleans as they beat the 8-2 Dallas Mavericks by 21 points.

    The Pelicans might have a legit player here. This bears watching.
    There were three players drafted in the first round of the 2023 NBA Draft who were considered the sharpshooters of the class: Jordan Hawkins (Connecticut), Gradey Dick (Kansas), and Jett Howard (Michigan). Obviously, a number of prospects can shoot threes, but these guys were singled out as first round talents whose primary skill is outside shooting.

    The Orlando Magic surprised a lot of people by making Howard the first of them to get selected. (Jett went #11, while Gradey went #13 and Jordan went #14.) Their similar function and close draft proximity created a natural point of comparison and a side story worth monitoring. I did this during Summer League, pointing out that all three got off to slow shooting starts, with Howard faring the best eventually, giving Orlando some early vindication for going out on a limb. (Second rounder Hunter Tyson shot better than all of them.)

    About 10-12 games into the regular season, the rookie stat leaderboard shows Hawkins taking a dominating lead. Sorting by 3-point percentage is kind of useless; players who have hit 1-for-1 or 3-for-5 all season are the leaders, because this is a table for all rookies, and not just those who have played a minimum number of games or hit a minimum number of shots. It's more sensible to sort by made 3-pointers or attempted 3-pointers, and Hawkins leads both. He's hit 32 of them, much more than Chet Holmgren or Marcus Sasser (19 each). He has shot 32-for-89, or 36 percent. Holmgren (46 percent) and Sasser (41 percent) have shot better, but at a much lower volume. Meanwhile, Gradey Dick is 7-for-26 (27 percent) and Jett Howard is 0-for-6.

    Taking Hawkins out of the rookie context and comparing him to all players this season, he still ranks highly as a 3-point shooter. He's 6th in the league in 3-point attempts and 12th in 3-point makes, but 97th in 3-point percentage. There are several veteran players who shoot better and in higher volume (Steph Curry, Dorian Finney-Smith, and Tyrese Haliburton are the highest percentage shooters who have made more than Hawkins' 32).

    Hawkins' pretty good start is him taking advantage of an unusual opportunity not available to other rookies. The Pelicans have an offense that needs outside shooters, and Trey Murphy is injured. So his high usage makes sense. I can't speak as much to how Gradey Dick and Jett Howard are being used by their teams, but Gradey has played about half as many minutes as Jordan, while Howard has played far fewer games and minutes. I don't know if this is a health issue or a readiness issue.

    As Dereck Lively's numbers have tapered off a bit, Hawkins and Sasser have surged into the All-Rookie Team conversation.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Bethesda, MD
    Draymond might be going away for a while - https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...warriors-fight

    He's so interesting to me - a basketball savant and a very smart guy on many dimensions...and yet so little self-control at times.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by WillJ View Post
    Draymond might be going away for a while - https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...warriors-fight

    He's so interesting to me - a basketball savant and a very smart guy on many dimensions...and yet so little self-control at times.
    So Draymond got in another scuffle? That surprises me about as much as Florida Man getting into a Black Friday fist fight. It just is what it is.

    Although, I'd pay good money to see him on the receiving end of something befitting his many incidents one day.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Quote Originally Posted by WillJ View Post
    Draymond might be going away for a while - https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...warriors-fight

    He's so interesting to me - a basketball savant and a very smart guy on many dimensions...and yet so little self-control at times.
    It's always quite obvious that Draymond needs to bring it down a level. I really like the GSW (been the best team to watch for years with my favorite player - 30) and I'm often surprised that Green isn't thrown out of more games. I'm assuming he leads the NBA in technical fouls and ejections every year and he could be T-d up much more than he is. On the court his play is fantastic and he works so well with Steph. With Gobert last night...Rudy was trying to break things up but there's one simple rule he failed to follow: if you want to break up an scuffle, put hands on your teammate, not the other team. He did the latter and Green took him out. Both were wrong in one way or another.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by WillJ View Post
    Draymond might be going away for a while - https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/...warriors-fight

    He's so interesting to me - a basketball savant and a very smart guy on many dimensions...and yet so little self-control at times.
    Agreed. People like to label him a brute (I'm intentionally avoiding other terminology) but he's smarter than that. He has value on the court beyond just being a bully - he's a very good defender, a surprisingly good passer, and has a serviceable shot.

    If he didn't have skills, Golden State would have traded him for any of his various indiscretions over the years.

    I'd say he's usually very intentional about when/where he pushes the envelope. Sometimes it works better than others.

    Having said all that - this looks bad. There were a lot of players involved. The physical activity started before Draymond jumped in, but walking backwards with another player in a headlock is BAD.

    Given his history and previous transgressions, I expect the NBA to throw the book at him.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by elvis14 View Post
    With Gobert last night...Rudy was trying to break things up but there's one simple rule he failed to follow: if you want to break up an scuffle, put hands on your teammate, not the other team. He did the latter and Green took him out. Both were wrong in one way or another.
    Agreed, but Draymond's response was far more egregious than Rudy's. Green should get the book thrown at him. 10 games minimum, imho.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Mechanicsburg, PA
    Quote Originally Posted by elvis14 View Post
    It's always quite obvious that Draymond needs to bring it down a level. I really like the GSW (been the best team to watch for years with my favorite player - 30) and I'm often surprised that Green isn't thrown out of more games. I'm assuming he leads the NBA in technical fouls and ejections every year and he could be T-d up much more than he is. On the court his play is fantastic and he works so well with Steph. With Gobert last night...Rudy was trying to break things up but there's one simple rule he failed to follow: if you want to break up an scuffle, put hands on your teammate, not the other team. He did the latter and Green took him out. Both were wrong in one way or another.
    This is a very reasonable take from a GSW fan. My problem with Draymond is he seems way too impulsive and shows no regard for the safety of others whenever he or his teammates are wronged in his opinion. He’s dangerous and feels entitled to be so. Definitely a valuable player but I just can’t respect him as a person because of that entitlement.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    Agreed, but Draymond's response was far more egregious than Rudy's. Green should get the book thrown at him. 10 games minimum, imho.
    I expect more than 10 games.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by elvis14 View Post
    It's always quite obvious that Draymond needs to bring it down a level. I really like the GSW (been the best team to watch for years with my favorite player - 30) and I'm often surprised that Green isn't thrown out of more games. I'm assuming he leads the NBA in technical fouls and ejections every year and he could be T-d up much more than he is. On the court his play is fantastic and he works so well with Steph. With Gobert last night...Rudy was trying to break things up but there's one simple rule he failed to follow: if you want to break up an scuffle, put hands on your teammate, not the other team. He did the latter and Green took him out. Both were wrong in one way or another.
    Green put Gobert in a MMA style chokehold and could have choked him into unconsciousness with that grip. Inexcusable. I'm ready for Draymond to be ejected from the league.

    Quote Originally Posted by AGDukesky View Post
    This is a very reasonable take from a GSW fan. My problem with Draymond is he seems way too impulsive and shows no regard for the safety of others whenever he or his teammates are wronged in his opinion. He’s dangerous and feels entitled to be so. Definitely a valuable player but I just can’t respect him as a person because of that entitlement.
    Including punching his own teammate. I think he should feel entitled to not wear an NBA uniform anymore and take his "talents" to the MMA ring.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInBrasil View Post
    Green put Gobert in a MMA style chokehold and could have choked him into unconsciousness with that grip. Inexcusable. I'm ready for Draymond to be ejected from the league.

    Including punching his own teammate. I think he should feel entitled to not wear an NBA uniform anymore and take his "talents" to the MMA ring.
    AMEN!!! There’s no one in the NBA that disgusts me more than him. And I grew up watching the Bad Boy Pistons, and many other rough and tumble teams and players in the 70s and 80s. Draymond is actually the worst of all of them in my book. He needs to go. But no way that’ll happen. In fact, I doubt he’ll get more than five games.

  11. #31
    Five games for Draymond. I'm surprised it isn't more.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Five games for Draymond. I'm surprised it isn't more.
    Pathetic.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    Green should get the book thrown at him. 10 games minimum, imho.
    Don’t recall you using the “h” (imho) before. 🤷

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Greenville, SC
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Don’t recall you using the “h” (imho) before. 🤷
    High-powered?

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    North of Durham
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Five games for Draymond. I'm surprised it isn't more.
    Five games (or even slightly less) would have been right for a first-time offender. Given his track record, it should have been more. Someone needs to get through to him. I don't follow the NBA as closely as others here so perhaps I've missed something, but I like Kerr a lot but he seems to not be as troubled as he should be by Green's behavior.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNotCrazie View Post
    Five games (or even slightly less) would have been right for a first-time offender. Given his track record, it should have been more. Someone needs to get through to him. I don't follow the NBA as closely as others here so perhaps I've missed something, but I like Kerr a lot but he seems to not be as troubled as he should be by Green's behavior.
    At this point in his career, I don't think he's inclined to change.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    At this point in his career, I don't think he's inclined to change.
    He even put out a social media post chastising those advocating for him to change, saying some b.s. that Draymond knows best...at how to be Draymond. That's kinda the point dipsh*t, your violence-prone antics are the problem, and people want you to change that before a) you get kicked out of the profession you're in and then you whine about how unfair it all is or b) seriously hurt someone and possibly end up witha criminal conviction. But DiB, you say, Draymond's not at risk of criminal prosecution, he's an athlete! If either Jordan Poole or Rudy Gobert (and many, many others) had not been on a basketball court when Draymond a) punched them in the face b) put them in a chokehold c) punched them in the nuts or otherwise threw elbows, feet, knees into their bodies, criminal charges would be highly warranted. His behavior borders on sociopathic, in that he has no regard for the bodily integrity of others and only values how he interprets a situation.
    Last edited by DukieInBrasil; 11-16-2023 at 10:51 AM. Reason: l

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInBrasil View Post
    He even put out a social media post chastising those advocating for him to change, saying some b.s. that Draymond knows best...at how to be Draymond. That's kinda the point dipsh*t, your violence-prone antics are the problem, and people want you to change that before a) you get kicked out of the profession you're in and then you whine about how unfair it all is or b) seriously hurt someone and possibly end up witha criminal conviction. But DiB, you say, Draymond's not at risk of criminal prosecution, he's an athlete! If either Jordan Poole or Rudy Gobert (and many, many others) had not been on a basketball court when Draymond a) punched them in the face b) put them in a chokehold c) punched them in the nuts or otherwise threw elbows, feet, knees into their bodies, criminal charges would be highly warranted. His behavior borders on sociopathic, in that he has no regard for the bodily integrity of others and only values how he interprets a situation.
    I guess I shouldn't be surprised but it's absolutely wild that that Draymond says he "knows best." His antics likely cost his team a RING in 2016 when he punched Lebron and got suspended! It's also obvious that the Poole-punch was a giant problem for the chemistry of the Warriors last season. I was baffled that he was allowed to stay in the league after that; I guess it's a players union thing?

    Ugh he's by far my least favorite player.
    Trinity '09

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    Don’t recall you using the “h” (imho) before. 🤷
    I use it all the time. It stands for "Hot". My takes are always hot, Steven. You should know that by now.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDukie View Post
    I use it all the time. It stands for "Hot". My takes are always hot, Steven. You should know that by now.
    Well, I think it only fair and appropriate that your wife weigh in on this one. Self-claimed hotness is generally a dubious proposition.

    But regardless, you’re a damn good poster — lots of takes, lots of enthusiasm and energy, congenial personality. We appreciate you being on DBR, SouthernDukie. 😊

    Plus, you’re a Celtics fan. Huge bonus points for that!

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