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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
    I feel bad for Jayson. While I think the starting line-up for the Celtics is better, the bench is much worse and I can see more pressure on Tatum to play more/score more while in the game. And how much more can he score considering he averaged 30 ppl last year?
    Maybe. Definitely true about a very thin bench. But the addition of Porzingas and Holiday means two new players who can put up 25-30 on a given night, so I'm not sure that Tatum has to shoulder all the scoring.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Lively's biggest play might have been an offensive rebound that bought another possession and allowed Doncic to drill the dagger three. He was all over the court, getting his hands in every possession on both sides. So cool to see him have this type of debut, he's a great kid who went through a lot starting at a young age, and has been a great embassador for Duke.

    I only wish we had gotten a full healthy season from him, that preseason injury really set him back. If the player we saw in March had instead emerged in Janurary, we're talking about a whole different kind of season.

  3. #63
    Heck of a debut by D Lively. He displayed great motor and did a lot of little things to make his team better. You get the sense that if he can develop any kind of mid range shot he could be really, really good.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Washington, D.C.

    Lively

    Quote Originally Posted by brevity View Post
    Lively's stat line (30 min): 16 pts (7-8 FG, 2-3 FT), 10 reb, 1 ast, 1 stl

    He should be credited with a second steal for drawing attention away from Victor Wembanyama's debut. His highlights:



    I watched the whole game. Lively seemed so ready for this moment, and so unflappable, whether he collided with someone, or missed a pass, or was called for a foul. For someone who was never directly taught by Coach K, he embodied "next play" better than anyone I've seen in years.

    It's a long season, and the 82-game grind will wear down any rookie. But I'll enjoy his exuberance for as long as it lasts.
    Kind of weird to watch Lively highlights and have all but one play be on offense.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Feb 2018
    Location
    Dur'm
    Quote Originally Posted by MChambers View Post
    Kind of weird to watch Lively highlights and have all but one play be on offense.
    And the one defensive play was not a block.

  6. #66
    Just checked the scores, I’m very happy for Lively. Outshining Wemby in your debut, just wow !

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Mechanicsburg, PA
    Quote Originally Posted by brevity View Post
    Lively's stat line (30 min): 16 pts (7-8 FG, 2-3 FT), 10 reb, 1 ast, 1 stl

    He should be credited with a second steal for drawing attention away from Victor Wembanyama's debut. His highlights:



    I watched the whole game. Lively seemed so ready for this moment, and so unflappable, whether he collided with someone, or missed a pass, or was called for a foul. For someone who was never directly taught by Coach K, he embodied "next play" better than anyone I've seen in years.

    It's a long season, and the 82-game grind will wear down any rookie. But I'll enjoy his exuberance for as long as it lasts.
    Mavs fans absolutely love him- including this one!

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    New Orleans, Louisiana
    Dereck Lively II had the 30th most productive performance Wednesday night (of 272 players), according to Devils in the NBA and its source, Basketball Reference.

    Other rookies, for perverse comparison:

    77. Cason Wallace, OKC
    103. Victor Wembanyama, SA
    106. Brandon Miller, CHA
    131. Jaime Jaquez Jr, MIA
    139. Keyonte George, UTA
    141. Anthony Black, ORL
    163. Ausar Thompson, DET
    164. Toumani Camara, POR
    171. Scoot Henderson, POR
    185. Bilal Coulibaly, WAS
    196. Jordan Hawkins, NO
    220. Taylor Hendricks, UTA
    227. Jordan Miller, LAC
    231. Colby Jones, SAC
    233. Amen Thompson, HOU
    241. Jett Howard, ORL
    243. Julian Phillips, CHI
    244. Rayan Rupert, POR
    245. Nick Smith Jr, CHA
    249. Gradey Dick, TOR
    251. Brice Sensabaugh, UTA
    256. Jordan Ford, SAC
    257. Ben Sheppard, IND
    264. Jarace Walker, IND
    266. Kobe Brown, LAC
    272. Cam Whitmore, HOU

    "See?" -- the teams that passed on Cam Whitmore for picks #1-19

    And now, some of whatever you call the digital version of press clippings. Since the Game Score used to rank these players above was created by John Hollinger, let's start with him:

    John Hollinger @johnhollinger

    Saw last night why I had Dereck Lively II 8th on my draft board. Mavs got a Tyson Chandler clone.

    7:13 AM · Oct 26, 2023
    Marc J. Spears @MarcJSpears

    Dereck Lively II taking advantage of start in second half. He’s having the better rookie center game so far.

    Last edited 10:24 PM · Oct 25, 2023
    Kevin O'Connor @KevinOConnorNBA

    Big time poster here by Dereck Lively

    Lively is already making an impact with the Mavericks. Got off to a slow start his freshman year with Duke, but ever since he's looked more like the elite high school recruit that he was.

    [embedded video, click link below]

    10:25 PM · Oct 25, 2023
    Nate Duncan @NateDuncanNBA

    Lively in for Kleber. To close?

    11:08 PM · Oct 25, 2023
    Adi Joseph @AdiJoseph

    Dereck Lively ROY markets about to go nuts. Wouldn’t surprise me if he had better odds than Scoot Henderson tomorrow.

    11:12 PM · Oct 25, 2023
    You can change this @mdug

    If Lively can already be this guy ... well, that would be a good thing.

    Good indeed, sir or madam

    11:13 PM · Oct 25, 2023
    Vincent Goodwill @VinceGoodwill

    Dereck Lively… I’m impressed

    11:14 PM · Oct 25, 2023
    Kevin O'Connor @KevinOConnorNBA

    Grant Williams played a great defensive game for the Mavs. The Dallas team defense has a long way to go but I'd start by inserting Dereck Lively into the starting lineup over Derrick Jones.

    11:15 PM · Oct 25, 2023
    Dan Favale @danfavale

    what a debut from dereck lively. i am sufficiently smitten.

    11:15 PM · Oct 25, 2023
    Marc J. Spears @MarcJSpears

    Mavs rookie center Dereck Lively II has a double-double of 16 points and 10 rebounds and made seven of eight field goal attempts in his NBA debut versus Spurs and Victor Wembanyama.

    Last edited 11:16 PM · Oct 25, 2023
    StatMuse @statmuse

    Dereck Lively tonight:

    16 PTS
    10 REB (5 OREB)
    7-8 FG

    First rookie in over 40 seasons with 15/10 on 80 FG% in the season opener.

    11:16 PM · Oct 25, 2023
    Brad Townsend @townbrad

    After exiting the court, Mark Cuban flashed a big smile and said: “Number one overall pick Dereck Lively.”

    He was half-joking, obviously, but point made — and taken.

    11:24 PM · Oct 25, 2023
    Mark Followill @MFollowill

    Mavs rookies to record a double-double in their NBA debut.

    Dereck Lively II - 16 pts, 10 rebs.
    Dennis Smith Jr. - 16 pts, 10 assts.
    Jason Kidd - 10 pts, 11 assts.
    Mark Aguirre - 19 pts, 11 rebs.

    11:33 PM · Oct 25, 2023
    Brad Townsend @townbrad

    Jason Kidd on HIS rookie, Dereck Lively.

    [embedded video, click link below]

    11:37 PM · Oct 25, 2023
    Brad Townsend @townbrad

    Dereck Lively II speaks.

    [embedded video, click link below]

    11:44 PM · Oct 25, 2023
    Joe Vardon @joevardon

    Victor Wembanyama was, at least statistically, outplayed by a rookie taken 11 picks after him. But Wemby’s last 7 minutes for the Spurs are what the world tuned in to see, ⁦@TheAthleticNBA

    https://theathletic.com/5000330/2023...score-results/

    6:17 AM · Oct 26, 2023

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Owen Meany View Post
    Lively, Seth and Kyrie on ESPN vs the Spurs and Tre Jones in Wembanyana's NBA debut. I know it's much too early to tell anything from their first pro games, but I would love to see Lively have a good outing guarding Wemby, because if he can do so it would prove very valuable for the future.
    ask and you shall receive. Wemby did not have a bad debut game, far from it. But he just wasn't as impressive as D-Live!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Maybe. Definitely true about a very thin bench. But the addition of Porzingas and Holiday means two new players who can put up 25-30 on a given night, so I'm not sure that Tatum has to shoulder all the scoring.
    Well, Porzingas did all the scoring at the end. Others have opined that the bench is for the regular season but the Playoffs demand peak performance from the starters. A high seed is desireable but not always indicative of Playoffs success, as evidenced by last year. Judicious use of the bench can help reduce wear and tear and hopefully injuries to the starters, but it's really in service to having your starters as close to optimal during the Playoffs.

    ed.- Duke alum scored a total of 248 points (per this awesome website!!!). 5 players with 20+, Tatum with 34, Ingram with 19, and and additional 4 with 12+. 3 other guys had 8 boards to go with either 8 or 6 points. So, not only are a lot of guys on rosters, but a lot of guys are playing big roles on their teams.
    The Jones Brothers didn't duel head to head, but they ended the night with identical stat lines of 16 pts, 6 asts, and just 1 turn for Tre 2 for Tyus. Tyus had a steal and a block, too.
    Last edited by DukieInBrasil; 10-26-2023 at 10:31 AM.

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    New York, NY
    Lively never had a double double at Duke.

    He's never NOT had a double double in the NBA

    (courtesy of @Sportstrum)

  11. #71
    It's been obvious on "The Brotherhood" Podcast just how beloved Lively was as a teammate and how positive and energetic he always was, even when he wasn't playing well. It's great to see him excel! I can also imagine Ryan Young telling his grandkids one day about how it took a while for D-Live to start ahead of him.

  12. #72
    Livelys game is built for the nba. He’lll thrive in the open court

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Quote Originally Posted by Gooch View Post
    Lively looks like he fits in his role and gets a Duke-like put-back jam for his first NBA basket.

    In non-Duke news: Wemby is gonna be a problem for the league.

    Also it is funny that JJ has already corrected Richard Jefferson twice on the broadcast. Awkward…
    I don't see it. He's another Robert Swift. One bad high ankle sprain away from the start of a slow decay. Not built for the current NBA. These tall guys with "guard skills" always go down to injury.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan_Wilson View Post
    Livelys game is built for the nba. He’lll thrive in the open court
    Agree completely. He is built for the current NBA.
    Hard at work making beautiful things.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Edouble View Post
    I don't see it. He's another Robert Swift. One bad high ankle sprain away from the start of a slow decay. Not built for the current NBA. These tall guys with "guard skills" always go down to injury.



    Agree completely. He is built for the current NBA.
    Oooh, this Wemby take begs for a pie bet!

    And yes, as a Sonics fan, I might have Robert Swift PTSD.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Edouble View Post
    I don't see it. He's another Robert Swift. One bad high ankle sprain away from the start of a slow decay. Not built for the current NBA. These tall guys with "guard skills" always go down to injury.
    I trust you got this info to Gregg Popovich before he chose Victor Wembanyama as the first pick in the draft? So if this goes badly it’s on Pop for being stubborn and not listening.

    Oh, and I had no idea — before today — that a high ankle sprain is the death knell for an NBA career. Who knew? 🤷😉

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Steven43 View Post
    I trust you got this info to Gregg Popovich before he chose Victor Wembanyama as the first pick in the draft? So if this goes badly it’s on Pop for being stubborn and not listening.

    Oh, and I had no idea — before today — that a high ankle sprain is the death knell for an NBA career. Who knew? 🤷😉
    That's why Riley Leonard isn't going to play in the Association. I presume.

    /s

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    That's why Riley Leonard isn't going to play in the Association. I presume.

    /s
    I know, right? It’s depressing. 😞

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Steamboat Springs, CO
    Quote Originally Posted by Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15 View Post
    Oooh, this Wemby take begs for a pie bet!

    And yes, as a Sonics fan, I might have Robert Swift PTSD.
    I am curious how there are differences in Wemby and Lively physiques that would lead to radically different predictions of NBA outcomes -- seem similar to me. Did either go thru combine for measurements?

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by sagegrouse View Post
    I am curious how there are differences in Wemby and Lively physiques that would lead to radically different predictions of NBA outcomes -- seem similar to me. Did either go thru combine for measurements?
    Wemby is 3 to 4 inches taller and yet Lively is 20 pounds heavier. I think the jab was mostly aimed at super tall guards, which Lively does not pretend to be.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by DukieInBrasil View Post
    Wemby is 3 to 4 inches taller and yet Lively is 20 pounds heavier. I think the jab was mostly aimed at super tall guards, which Lively does not pretend to be.
    I mean, Kevin Durant and Brandon Ingram were both rail thin when they entered the NBA. Their careers seem to be panning out okay.

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