An apparently necessary reminder: Ryan Young is good at basketball

[Kfanarmy]

Ryan at 10-15 MPG is fabulous. Ryan's intangibles seem fabulous.

Ryan at greater than 15 MPG significantly dings Duke's title aspirations.

Can you add some detail to this? Not sure what, specifically, you are getting at here. My guess is that if he plays more than 15MPG, it would be because of a net + on the scoring line.

[Phredd3]

I think Ryan's defense consistently gets overly trashed on this board. He's not Dereck Lively, and he never will be. But he doesn't get blown by as much as people here seem to think, either, and his positioning is close to perfect, so that even if he is beaten off the dribble, the dribbler almost always ends up heading into the (planned) defensive help. He also makes the other defenders on the floor better. He is an unspectacular defender in every way. But, in my view, and as verified by Sports-Reference.com he's not a "bad" defender, like everyone here seems to think. His 1.2 Defensive Win Shares and 3.3 Defensive Box Plus/Minus (both career highs) show that he is contributing to the team, even only considering the defensive end.

We could do a lot worse defensively than we do with Ryan Young.

[scottdude8]

I think Ryan's defense consistently gets overly trashed on this board. He's not Dereck Lively, and he never will be. But he doesn't get blown by as much as people here seem to think, either, and his positioning is close to perfect, so that even if he is beaten off the dribble, the dribbler almost always ends up heading into the (planned) defensive help. He also makes the other defenders on the floor better. He is an unspectacular defender in every way. But, in my view, and as verified by Sports-Reference.com he's not a "bad" defender, like everyone here seems to think. His 1.2 Defensive Win Shares and 3.3 Defensive Box Plus/Minus (both career highs) show that he is contributing to the team, even only considering the defensive end.

We could do a lot worse defensively than we do with Ryan Young.

Thanks for this Phredd... I was going to add some advanced stats to my original post but neglected to since it's not my area of expertise, haha.

I think we've gotten our perspective skewed by a combination of: A) Comparing Ryan to Dereck, and B) The handful of blow-bys that happen and do admittedly look quite bad aesthetically. Still, though, no matter what it looks like, a layup is always worth just two points.

All the objective metrics show that Ryan is not a defensive liability, but merely "average" on that front. I'd posit that if you compared him to the average 5-man in the NCAA he'd even look a bit better... the fact is, 5s who can guard the pick and roll effectively on the perimeter are a valuable and rare commodity (that tend to get eaten up by the NBA given the usefulness of that skill in the modern game). The things that Ryan struggles with are the things that most college centers struggle with... yes, the guys we were hoping for in the portal were some of those who might not have those troubles, but you can't always get what you want.

[Skydog]

Ryan is a star when he plays against average collegiate big men. His smarts and hustle more than make up for his athletic limitations. But when he is forced to match up against unusually athletic centers and forwards his lack of quickness, strength and hops is exposed and he really struggles on both ends of the court.

Unfortunately the deeper we go in the NCAAs the more likely we will play against the type of big men that Ryan struggles against.

[azzefkram]

Can you add some detail to this? Not sure what, specifically, you are getting at here. My guess is that if he plays more than 15MPG, it would be because of a net + on the scoring line.

This probably isn't the detail you are looking for, but long story short I believe that Ryan is a great back-up but a poor starter. I think he gets exposed the longer he is in there. Would Duke be a bad team if Ryan was the starting 5? No, but I do not think that they would be title contenders, either.

[scottdude8]

This probably isn't the detail you are looking for, but long story short I believe that Ryan is a great back-up but a poor starter. I think he gets exposed the longer he is in there. Would Duke be a bad team if Ryan was the starting 5? No, but I do not think that they would be title contenders, either.

Is this dependent upon him playing "starters minutes" or just being in the starting lineup? I don't think we'll see many games this year where Ryan plays more than 20 minutes, but I do think that dependent on the matchup and/or the progression of the freshman (i.e., if Stewart develops and can claim a starting role as a big, or McCain/Foster can claim a starting role in a 3-guard lineup) he may start a handful of games this season, perhaps at the beginning of the year (like he did last year). But given our depth and the number of lineup combos we'll be able to use I have to imagine even when he starts his minutes will be limited and in bursts.

[azzefkram]

Is this dependent upon him playing "starters minutes" or just being in the starting lineup? I don't think we'll see many games this year where Ryan plays more than 20 minutes, but I do think that dependent on the matchup and/or the progression of the freshman (i.e., if Stewart develops and can claim a starting role as a big, or McCain/Foster can claim a starting role in a 3-guard lineup) he may start a handful of games this season, perhaps at the beginning of the year (like he did last year). But given our depth and the number of lineup combos we'll be able to use I have to imagine even when he starts his minutes will be limited and in bursts.

Should have written starters minutes. If Ryan starts and plays 15 MPG, great. I really do think that less is more with respect to Ryan. Can he play starters minutes against cupcakes? Definitely, he is so savvy that his lack of foot speed won't hurt him against the lower-tier competition. I do think he gets played off the floor in conference play.

I really hope that we don't see Ryan as a starter even early on in the season. I hope that Flip is our starting 5 and Mark our starting 4. If Jon plans on locking Flip into the 4, then a portal 5 wasn't really a luxury but a necessity.

[cato]

I think Ryan's defense consistently gets overly trashed on this board. He's not Dereck Lively, and he never will be. But he doesn't get blown by as much as people here seem to think, either, and his positioning is close to perfect, so that even if he is beaten off the dribble, the dribbler almost always ends up heading into the (planned) defensive help. He also makes the other defenders on the floor better. He is an unspectacular defender in every way. But, in my view, and as verified by Sports-Reference.com he's not a "bad" defender, like everyone here seems to think. His 1.2 Defensive Win Shares and 3.3 Defensive Box Plus/Minus (both career highs) show that he is contributing to the team, even only considering the defensive end.

We could do a lot worse defensively than we do with Ryan Young.

I think people still fall into two traps: Ryan doesn’t look like an ACC level 5 and his play isn’t spectacular. All he does is play team offense and defense, rebound and score/assist inside, all at a high level.

[scottdude8]

Should have written starters minutes. If Ryan starts and plays 15 MPG, great. I really do think that less is more with respect to Ryan. Can he play starters minutes against cupcakes? Definitely, he is so savvy that his lack of foot speed won't hurt him against the lower-tier competition. I do think he gets played off the floor in conference play.

I really hope that we don't see Ryan as a starter even early on in the season. I hope that Flip is our starting 5 and Mark our starting 4. If Jon plans on locking Flip into the 4, then a portal 5 wasn't really a luxury but a necessity.

OK, this makes a lot of sense and I largely agree! Call it a hunch, but I don't think Jon is the type of coach that plans on "locking in" to any one particular strategy. I thought he showed a lot of flexibility over the course of last year adjusting the lineup, rotation, and game plan, especially given all the players we had coming in and out of the lineup with injuries. You, and others on the board, may be right that Jon wanted a transfer 5 because he thought Kyle was best at the 4, but I have to imagine with a summer to prepare he'll figure out how to get the best out of 15-25 minutes of Kyle at the 5 each game... I highly doubt his response will instead be to try to get 30 mpg a night from Ryan so that Kyle is rarely playing the 5.

I think it also bears repeating that Kyle's probably most valuable as a 5 in the modern NBA than as a 4. He has the size and decent (not plus, obviously) athleticism to be adequate defensively against most NBA 5s (who, it's worth remembering, aren't typically the offensive focus of their teams... ball dominant 5s like Jokic are the exception, and complimentary/defensive focused 5s seem to be more the norm in the modern game), but his outside shooting and ability to attack off the dribble would present mismatches against all but the most mobile/lengthy opposing 5s. At the 4, while he might have a size advantage in the paint, he'd be guarding some of the most athletic guys in the NBA game, which would potentially make the tradeoff more of a negative than it would at the 5. Unless I'm way off base there, I think that Kyle and Jon probably know that showcasing him at the 5 in some capacity will be beneficial to his draft stock... and while I of course don't think any coaching decisions are being made with that in mind, there's now the natural opportunity to do that this season.

[dukelifer]

I think people still fall into two traps: Ryan doesn’t look like an ACC level 5 and his play isn’t spectacular. All he does is play team offense and defense, rebound and score/assist inside, all at a high level.

Poor man’s Jokic? Can’t jump, average defender but somehow makes the right play at the right time. Kid will be better next year.

[jv001]

Should have written starters minutes. If Ryan starts and plays 15 MPG, great. I really do think that less is more with respect to Ryan. Can he play starters minutes against cupcakes? Definitely, he is so savvy that his lack of foot speed won't hurt him against the lower-tier competition. I do think he gets played off the floor in conference play.

I really hope that we don't see Ryan as a starter even early on in the season. I hope that Flip is our starting 5 and Mark our starting 4. If Jon plans on locking Flip into the 4, then a portal 5 wasn't really a luxury but a necessity.

I love Ryan Young and hope he's named a captain this season. However, I think Ryan has his limitations. Last season once Lively got heathy Ryan didn't play that much. In Ryan's last 10 games he averaged 11.2 mpg, 2.6 ppg and 2.9 rpg. In the ACCT he averaged 10.7mpg and in the NCAAT he averaged 5.5mpg. Coach Scheyer plainly stated the teams defense was their calling card and I think it will be this season. I think the team will be at it's best with Ryan getting around 15 ppg. Like Scott said, Flip will probably play more minutes at the 5 this season and I expect Stewart and Reeves will get an opportunity to make a case for themselves to be in the rotation. Ryan is a good rebounder, a good shooter around the basket and really communicates when he's on the court. I love his YMCA game.

GoDuke!

[bluedev_92]

I’m not going to go into an analysis here. I’ll just say that I’m extremely happy that Ryan is on this team, for many reasons.

[rhynelander]

I think there's some validity to the concerns about Young's defense, however there is also some recency bias skewing a lot of folks' expectations on this board. Yes, Young is limited athletically, but he's an average college defender, who is sound positionally. He's a fantastic PART of our front court rotation, not too many teams we play will have the extremely long, quick and athletic big that can make Young pay on defense. However, that's why we can counter with Flip at the 5. Even if that's still not working out in our favor defensively, the other team has to guard Flip there, who knows how that will play out game to game, but I like our chances.

We also have two wildcards also in our front court rotation defensively. Reeves has elite size and looked like the best player on the floor in mop up minutes last year, which of course doesn't mean much. Who know how he's developed or been hindered by his injury? Stewart doesn't have the height of Reeves or even Young, but is an explosive athlete with great size for his age. Of course we haven't seen him play against college level talent yet. The mixture of these four is better than almost every other high major team out there. Of course we would've loved having Udeh or another more proven/traditional rim protector, but then most likely we're looking at transfers or possible decommits... Then there's a barrage of complaints from the board about player continuity. I know we all want Duke to field as close to a perfect team as possible, but we have to stay grounded in reality.

I also agree with what I've seen from more informed posters on here in other threads, with respect to our perceived lack of rim protection, the other team has to guard us too. If we play 5 out with Flip at the 5, what would a player like Zach Edey do? Stay down low and let him shoot? Do we force teams into more zone, where hopefully, our shooting and ball movement makes them pay? A final thought before I wrap this ramble of a post, and this is not a shot at Lively (who we all loved seeing come into his own and have dominant defensive stretches) however, towards the end of the year, our opponents basically stopped guarding him which clogged the lane and hurt our spacing. Young hasn't shown the ability to shoot 3s, but he's an excellent shooter from the stripe and around there, which forces opposing teams to respect/guard him there, creating valuable spacing for our shooters and slashers. Having Mitchell's active and long arms along with Flip and Stew's could help mask some our deficiencies much like Porter Jr. and Gordon cover Jokic's...

Happy summer folks (:

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

Ryan Young is the classiest garbage man in the business. He's smart, grown up, and plays within himself. I'm always glad to see him jump off the bench and change the atmosphere.
Love, Ima

[brevity]

Ryan Young is the classiest garbage man in the business.

Maybe a janitor? Ryan Young doesn't just clean the glass (5.5 rebounds last season), he also cleans the floor:

ryanyoungkacademy.jpg
(source)

[OldPhiKap]

“The best thing about fifth-year players is that they become sixth-year players”


Ryan has a role on this team, both on the court and in practice. Glad to have him.

[diveonthefloor]

It's all about in-game matchups.
Ryan absolutely can help next year's team win ball games. Jon knows his strengths (and weaknesses) and will exploit matchups to Duke's advantage.
And Ryan's dive on the floor hustle can be infectious on a young team.

[gep]

Easy to forget... especially at my advanced age... Ryan highlights from 22-23...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOJGT0FOFSE

[LasVegas]

It's all about in-game matchups.
Ryan absolutely can help next year's team win ball games. Jon knows his strengths (and weaknesses) and will exploit matchups to Duke's advantage.
And Ryan's dive on the floor hustle can be infectious on a young team.

This is really what it comes down to. The thread title is misleading in that I don’t think anyone suggested Young wasn’t “good”. It’s just that a lot of posters see him as a liability against the top tier teams and that’s completely fair.