2024 U.S. Presidential election

[CameronBornAndBred]

Among the yuuuuge pile of evidence are photos (as shown above), witness testimony from the implicated (such as Nauta), texts between parties that moved the boxes back and forth, audio recordings, and very likely security footage, and even Trump's own words in official White House memos.

I'm very interested in seeing if anyone in Congress who has been rallying to his defense backs off, because proving guilt seemingly won't be much of a stretch for the DOJ.

No wonder his lawyers quit this morning.

[Udaman]

It certainly seems like a conviction is highly possible. Trump's (new) lawyers will likely ask for at continuance until after the election. Will see if Federal judge grants that. If not, will get really, really interesting...

[burnspbesq]

As I stated in a post I made last night, judges in this district are assigned to cases on a random basis. But we now know that the case has been assigned to Cannon. The odds of her having the case assigned to her at random, after she also got it randomly for the search warrant litigation, are long. With 15 judges in the district, the odds of pulling her at random twice in a row would be 1 in 225.

I didn’t know this until I looked it up in response to a question posted on another site I frequent, but the Internal Operating Procedures of the Southern District (which are part of the local rules) include something called the “one division rule,” which modifies the general random-assignment process to provide that cases will normally stay in the division in which they originate—in this case, the West Palm Beach division, which currently has only one active (as opposed to senior) judge.

[dudog84]

Each side has the right to have the judge to whom the case is assigned, removed from the case and have it sent to someone else. But what I don't know is whether it is now too late for the prosecution to exercise that right in this case due to Cannon having heard the earlier, related matter. And apart from that, there would be optics to consider when deciding whether or not to exercise that right.

Trump and his don't care about optics. Why should the DOJ? That's not a rhetorical question.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/05/19/desa...qualified.html

[OldPhiKap]

I didn’t know this until I looked it up in response to a question posted on another site I frequent, but the Internal Operating Procedures of the Southern District (which are part of the local rules) include something called the “one division rule,” which modifies the general random-assignment process to provide that cases will normally stay in the division in which they originate—in this case, the West Palm Beach division, which currently has only one active (as opposed to senior) judge.

Interesting. Although arguably, the subpoena (and thus the case) originated in the Miami division with the magistrate judge. Trump subsequently filed a civil action in Ft. Pierce to challenge the subpoena, and the Eleventh Circuit dismissed that action in whole IIRC.

[burnspbesq]

In one sense, the indictment is a win for Trump. He won’t have to litigate the issue of whether the disqualification from holding office set forth in 18 U.S.C. Section 2071(b) would apply to a president. Plenty of folks think that the only qualifications to be president are the ones set forth in the Constitution, but I’m not convinced by that. I could write a brief for either side that I think would have a chance of convincing an appellate court.

[tommy]

Interesting. Although arguably, the subpoena (and thus the case) originated in the Miami division with the magistrate judge. Trump subsequently filed a civil action in Ft. Pierce to challenge the subpoena, and the Eleventh Circuit dismissed that action in whole IIRC.

??

First of all, to be more precise, it was a search warrant, duly signed by a magistrate, that was executed at Mar-a-Lago, not a simple subpoena. After the execution of the warrant and the seizure of (I think it was something like) 11,000 documents there, Trump filed for appointment of a Special Master to review the documents and determine which ones were privileged, which ones could and could not be held by DOJ, used by DOJ in the case to come, etc., and Judge Cannon granted that request. It was her granting of Trump's request for the Special Master that was appealed by the DOJ, and unanimously reversed by the 11th Circuit Court of Appeal.

[OldPhiKap]

??

First of all, to be more precise, it was a search warrant, duly signed by a magistrate, that was executed at Mar-a-Lago, not a simple subpoena. After the execution of the warrant and the seizure of (I think it was something like) 11,000 documents there, Trump filed for appointment of a Special Master to review the documents and determine which ones were privileged, which ones could and could not be held by DOJ, used by DOJ in the case to come, etc., and Judge Cannon granted that request. It was her granting of Trump's request for the Special Master that was appealed by the DOJ, and unanimously reversed by the 11th Circuit Court of Appeal.

You are correct, it all started with a search warrant and not a subpoena (my bad). But that search warrant was issued by a magistrate in the Miami district, where Mar-a-Lago is located.

Rather than appeal the issuance of the search warrant to the judge that normally works with that magistrate, Trump filed a separate civil action in Ft. Pierce where Cannon is the only judge.

The criminal case started with the issuance of a search warrant in Miami, not Ft. Pierce. So the argument would be that under the IOP, given “that cases will normally stay in the division in which they originate,” that is the Miami division with its judges and not a district court judge from the Ft. Pierce division.

But in any event, we should know next week who will have the case.

[dudog84]

You are correct, it all started with a search warrant and not a subpoena (my bad). But that search warrant was issued by a magistrate in the Miami district, where Mar-a-Lago is located.

Rather than appeal the issuance of the search warrant to the judge that normally works with that magistrate, Trump filed a separate civil action in Ft. Pierce where Cannon is the only judge.

The criminal case started with the issuance of a search warrant in Miami, not Ft. Pierce. So the argument would be that under the IOP, given “that cases will normally stay in the division in which they originate,” that is the Miami division with its judges and not a district court judge from the Ft. Pierce division.

But in any event, we should know next week who will have the case.

Exactly. I hope the DOJ is not bringing a wet noodle to a gun fight.

[tommy]

You are correct, it all started with a search warrant and not a subpoena (my bad). But that search warrant was issued by a magistrate in the Miami district, where Mar-a-Lago is located.

Rather than appeal the issuance of the search warrant to the judge that normally works with that magistrate, Trump filed a separate civil action in Ft. Pierce where Cannon is the only judge.

The criminal case started with the issuance of a search warrant in Miami, not Ft. Pierce. So the argument would be that under the IOP, given “that cases will normally stay in the division in which they originate,” that is the Miami division with its judges and not a district court judge from the Ft. Pierce division.

But in any event, we should know next week who will have the case.

Not sure what the procedural history is in terms of Trump's request for a Special Master and how he got that heard in Ft. Pierce by Judge Cannon. Usually it's not so easy to forum shop like that. Maybe it was filed in Miami and got assigned to her randomly. I really don't know.

But I agree with the rest of your post about the argument under the IOP.

By the way, the Fort Pierce courthouse is a lot closer to Mar-a-Lago than is the Miami courthouse. Still, though, there is also a federal courthouse in West Palm, which is a closer to Mar-a-Lago than is either Ft. Pierce or Miami.

[OldPhiKap]

Not sure what the procedural history is in terms of Trump's request for a Special Master and how he got that heard in Ft. Pierce by Judge Cannon. Usually it's not so easy to forum shop like that. Maybe it was filed in Miami and got assigned to her randomly. I really don't know.

But I agree with the rest of your post about the argument under the IOP.

By the way, the Fort Pierce courthouse is a lot closer to Mar-a-Lago than is the Miami courthouse. Still, though, there is also a federal courthouse in West Palm, which is a closer to Mar-a-Lago than is either Ft. Pierce or Miami.

Thanks. We’ll see how it shakes out early next week!

[FosterCoachK82]

Not sure what the procedural history is in terms of Trump's request for a Special Master and how he got that heard in Ft. Pierce by Judge Cannon. Usually it's not so easy to forum shop like that. Maybe it was filed in Miami and got assigned to her randomly. I really don't know.

But I agree with the rest of your post about the argument under the IOP.

By the way, the Fort Pierce courthouse is a lot closer to Mar-a-Lago than is the Miami courthouse. Still, though, there is also a federal courthouse in West Palm, which is a closer to Mar-a-Lago than is either Ft. Pierce or Miami.

On CNN it was explained that the prosecution ticked off a box to place the case in West Palm, and you can see that on p. 45 of the indictment. They said there are only 3 possibilities in WPB, including Cannon. Why would Justice do that? And I don’t understand why Cannon would be a possibility by ticking off WPB because she is in Ft. Pierce. I am very confused by this.

[tommy]

On CNN it was explained that the prosecution ticked off a box to place the case in West Palm, and you can see that on p. 45 of the indictment. They said there are only 3 possibilities in WPB, including Cannon. Why would Justice do that? And I don’t understand why Cannon would be a possibility by ticking off WPB because she is in Ft. Pierce. I am very confused by this.

I have a friend of a friend who is a former AUSA in the Southern District of Florida. He said that cases are assigned randomly but once Cannon touched the case for the search warrant litigation she gets the trial as it is related to what she already handled.

[FosterCoachK82]

I have a friend of a friend who is a former AUSA in the Southern District of Florida. He said that cases are assigned randomly but once Cannon touched the case for the search warrant litigation she gets the trial as it is related to what she already handled.

That seems very bad considering her terrible judging on previous Trump matters, which are basically the same Trump matters we are talking about. I hope DOJ works to get Cannon away from this case

[YmoBeThere]

The Special Counsel and tam would have known all this going in when they filed the indictment, right? So, they didn't try to change the venue purposefully for some reason or reasons? Could it have been to thwart Trump's usual tactic of delay, delay, delay?

[OldPhiKap]

Florida is the most natural venue for these charges because the alleged actions mainly took place in Mar-a-Lago (with a few in New Jersey). You are spot on; a filing in DC would have led to considerable pre-trial fighting and delay and a filing in New Jersey would have been on limited issues. (It likely could not have included the conspiracy charge, which in my experience is a claim federal prosecutors include when ordering breakfast at a diner).

This is also, in all probability, not the only action DOJ will be taking. I would expect a J6 filing in DC before Fani Willis files her action in Fulton County (Atlanta). So this is not DOJ’s only bullet (so to speak). It is likely that Trump will be facing four or more separate felony actions in four different locations, plus his nine-figure civil suit in NYC set for trial in October.

Candidate Trump will have a lot on his plate, and Rs will need to decide whether he is the horse they want to ride into the general election (or not).

[MartyClark]

That seems very bad considering her terrible judging on previous Trump matters, which are basically the same Trump matters we are talking about. I hope DOJ works to get Cannon away from this case

This may have been mentioned upstream, Judge Cannon is a Duke grad, 2003. Undergrad, not law school.

[bundabergdevil]

This may have been mentioned upstream, Judge Cannon is a Duke grad, 2003. Undergrad, not law school.

Yep. She was not at the 20 year reunion best I could tell.

[dudog84]

It's a horserace, right? Clang! Kari Lake takes the early lead for the VP slot out of the gate!

"I have a message tonight for Merrick Garland, and Jack Smith, and Joe Biden. And the guys back there in the fake news media, you should listen up as well, this one's for you. If you wanna get to President Trump, you're gonna have to go through me, and you're gonna have to go through 75 million Americans just like me. And I'm gonna tell you, most of us are card-carrying members of the NRA. That's not a threat, that's a public service announcement."

She received a standing ovation after her speech.

Pretty sure any of us threatening the President (or the Attorney General, or heck just about anyone) like that would be in the pokey right now. Any attorneys care to provide insight?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...419e4512&ei=84

[CameronBornAndBred]

It's a horserace, right? Clang! Kari Lake takes the early lead for the VP slot out of the gate!



She received a standing ovation after her speech.

Pretty sure any of us threatening the President (or the Attorney General, or heck just about anyone) like that would be in the pokey right now. Any attorneys care to provide insight?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/polit...419e4512&ei=84

She's classy