Way Way Way too early 2023-24 top 25 NCAA Men's Basketball rankings

[CameronBornAndBred]

A new one and an update.

TheScore: Early top-25 rankings for the 2023-24 college basketball season

1. Connecticut
2. Michigan State
3. Marquette
4. Kentucky
5. Houston
6. Duke

Duke is bringing three 5-stars into the fold for the second straight season

7. Arizona
8. Purdue
9. Tennessee
10. Creighton

23. Miami

College Hoops Today: ROTHSTEIN 45: 2023-24 PRESEASON EDITION #2 (cross-posted on Fanduel)

1. Duke (was #11)

Weird that retaining Kyle Filipowski (and losing Mackenzie Mgbako) moves Duke up 10 places, while Creighton is largely unaffected by the loss of Ryan Nembhard.

I think the bolded highlights it.
That's experience and teamwork that can't be matched.

[brevity]

I think the bolded highlights it.
That's experience and teamwork that can't be matched.

Sure, but Jon Rothstein ranked Duke #11 on April 4, presumably after Lively declared and definitely after Proctor and Mitchell chose to return. Stewart, McCain, Foster, and Power were still coming. He includes Roach now, so he probably included Roach back then. The only news that changed for him were Tuesday's announcements by Filipowski and Mgbako, and only one of those was positive.

I feel like Rothstein overreacted to the Filipowski news and underreacted to the Nembhard news. The latter seems especially egregious when your line of work is about shuffling things up regularly to provide new-ish content and provoke new-ish reactions.

To offer another example, I posted in last year's Summer Practices and Exhibitions thread about how Jeff Borzello of ESPN published a "new" monthly ranking after watching or keeping track of a few teams playing overseas, even though EVERY team from #1 to #25 stayed in the exact same place. He just added a few new descriptions and called it a month.

[scottdude8]

Time to start loving Joey Brackets (he said sarcastically)? He's moved us all the way up to his No. 1 overall seed in his way-too-early bracketology, after I think being a 3 seed on his first edition about two weeks ago.

[arnie]

Time to start loving Joey Brackets (he said sarcastically)? He's moved us all the way up to his No. 1 overall seed in his way-too-early bracketology, after I think being a 3 seed on his first edition about two weeks ago.

Texas Southern/UNO winner scares me😀. Hope he’s “wrong” and we get a weaker 16 opponent.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Time to start loving Joey Brackets (he said sarcastically)? He's moved us all the way up to his No. 1 overall seed in his way-too-early bracketology, after I think being a 3 seed on his first edition about two weeks ago.

Dude obviously knows what he's talking about! Never questioned him for a minute.

[Southgate0809]

St. Mary's getting love again. I still don't understand it.

[scottdude8]

ESPN's Jeff Borzello has moved us to No. 1 in his Way Too Early Rankings: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...tball-rankings

[JasonEvans]

ESPN's Jeff Borzello has moved us to No. 1 in his Way Too Early Rankings: https://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...tball-rankings

Ahhh, the herd mentality if firmly setting in.

[scottdude8]

Rankings post NBA draft deadline are coming out, and Kansas is emerging as the consensus No. 1 with Kevin McCullar's return.

ESPN moved them up to No. 1, past us, and Lunardi also has him as his No. 1 overall seed.

Jeff Goodman has us as No. 2 behind Purdue as well.

CBS has us as No. 3, behind Kansas and Purdue.

I think I'd rather enter the season in the Top 5 than No. 1... let Kansas take that target.

[DavidBenAkiva]

If I find some free time over the weekend, I am going to put together another consensus top 25 from all the rankings that have come out. There's a good number of rankings that followed the NBA Draft deadline. There should be another wave late in the summer after the bulk of the transfer portal players have settled into new spots.

[AGDukesky]

Rankings post NBA draft deadline are coming out, and Kansas is emerging as the consensus No. 1 with Kevin McCullar's return.

ESPN moved them up to No. 1, past us, and Lunardi also has him as his No. 1 overall seed.

Jeff Goodman has us as No. 2 behind Purdue as well.

CBS has us as No. 3, behind Kansas and Purdue.

I think I'd rather enter the season in the Top 5 than No. 1... let Kansas take that target.

As a Houston grad, I’m just not buying the Cougars as a Top 10 team. Sampson has been fantastic but I’m not sure these people remember Houston is joining the Big XII this year- you know probably the deepest conference with two of the last three national champions?! Houston could be really good and still easily lose 7-8 games - just in conference.

I hope I’m just being pessimistic but I expect an adjustment period to playing this high quality of opponents nearly every game…

[brevity]

I don't want to trigger Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15, so let me phrase this carefully: there are some people who, not content with a rankings list, instead choose to project a certain number of teams (say, 68) into a hypothetical postseason tournament, organized by seed and region. The process is largely fantasy and guesswork, but described quite falsely as a proper field of study.

Andy Katz of NCAA.com has created one such configuration, and updated it after this week's NBA draft withdrawal deadline.

Katz dodges the Michigan State vs. Purdue issue by making them both top seeds, along with Kansas and Duke.

Right now the East Region looks as follows:

1. Duke
2. Florida Atlantic
3. Connecticut
4. Arizona
5. Ohio State
6. Maryland
7. Alabama
8. Wisconsin
9. Auburn
10. Iowa State
11. TCU/Oregon (First Four)
12. Yale
13. UMass-Lowell
14. Ohio
15. UNC-Asheville
16. Iona

I probably know what you're thinking, and while I agree that Katz did Duke no favors, I can tell you already that you are looking too far ahead. Your eyes should move to the team on the bottom, Iona. Tobin Anderson replaced Rick Pitino as the Gaels head coach. Last year, at Fairleigh Dickinson, he went 2-1 in the tournament, defeating fellow 16-seed Texas Southern in the First Four and 1-seed Purdue in the first round before losing to eventual Final Four team Florida Atlantic.

After Iona is the prospect of facing Greg Gard or Bruce Pearl, another rematch with Caleb Love, and then whoever emerges from the mess on the other side, most likely Connecticut, Florida Atlantic, or Alabama.

[Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15]

I don't want to trigger Mtn.Devil.91.92.01.10.15, so let me phrase this carefully: there are some people who, not content with a rankings list, instead choose to project a certain number of teams (say, 68) into a hypothetical postseason tournament, organized by seed and region. The process is largely fantasy and guesswork, but described quite falsely as a proper field of study.

Andy Katz of NCAA.com has created one such configuration, and updated it after this week's NBA draft withdrawal deadline.

Katz dodges the Michigan State vs. Purdue issue by making them both top seeds, along with Kansas and Duke.

Right now the East Region looks as follows:

1. Duke
2. Florida Atlantic
3. Connecticut
4. Arizona
5. Ohio State
6. Maryland
7. Alabama
8. Wisconsin
9. Auburn
10. Iowa State
11. TCU/Oregon (First Four)
12. Yale
13. UMass-Lowell
14. Ohio
15. UNC-Asheville
16. Iona

I probably know what you're thinking, and while I agree that Katz did Duke no favors, I can tell you already that you are looking too far ahead. Your eyes should move to the team on the bottom, Iona. Tobin Anderson replaced Rick Pitino as the Gaels head coach. Last year, at Fairleigh Dickinson, he went 2-1 in the tournament, defeating fellow 16-seed Texas Southern in the First Four and 1-seed Purdue in the first round before losing to eventual Final Four team Florida Atlantic.

After Iona is the prospect of facing Greg Gard or Bruce Pearl, another rematch with Caleb Love, and then whoever emerges from the mess on the other side, most likely Connecticut, Florida Atlantic, or Alabama.

Thanks for the warning.

As long has Katz isn't calling anyone a "lock," I'm cool.

Edit: imagine 12 months ago suggesting that FAU might be Duke's 2 seed and thinking it was a difficult draw. Things move really quickly in today's college sports landscape.

[Nugget]

Edit: imagine 12 months ago suggesting that FAU might be Duke's 2 seed and thinking it was a difficult draw. Things move really quickly in today's college sports landscape.

The Florida Atlantic story is one of the non-Duke-related things I'm most looking forward to next season. It's pretty cool that FAU is able to bring back 7 of their top 8 guys, and none of them went pro or transferred up.

The closest I can really compare it to is when Wichita St. made its unexpected run to the Final Four in 2012-2013 and the next year brought back, among others, Cleanthony Early, Fred Van Vleet and Ron Baker, and went 35-0 before losing to Kentucky in the NCAA 2nd Round in a grotesquely brutal #1-#8 matchup given that UK had been pre-season No. 1 that year (with 6 Mickey Ds - Julius Randle, the Harrison twins, James Young, etc. -- plus Willie Cauley-Stein and Alex Poythress).

Obviously no one will play FAU in non-conference games which is a bummer. But, there should still be some good chances to see them in meaningful regular season games, including the Thanksgiving MTE in Orlando, which I would assume will be bracketed so FAU's 1st round game would be against VCU, Virginia Tech, Penn St. or Butler, with a potential semi-final against Iowa St. or Boise St. (whom Katz has projected as a 10 seed and just off the bubble, respectively), and a possible final against Texas A&M (whom Katz projects as a 6 seed).

Also, Jeff Goodman/Rob Dauster's "Field of 68" website has put together an intriguing "bracket-buster"-style set of matchups of teams who can't get non-conference games against P6 schools that will have FAU playing 2023 NCAA teams Liberty and College of Charleston.

And, they will be moving up to the AAC this year, so they should get a number of conference games on the various ESPN networks vs Memphis, SMU, Temple, Wichita St., UAB, N. Texas, etc.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Here's a look at the Way-Too-Early for June 4, 2023

Duke is solidly in 2nd place behind Kansas.

Way-Too-Early-June-4-2023.jpg

[gumbomoop]

Here's a look at the Way-Too-Early for June 4, 2023

Duke is solidly in 2nd place behind Kansas.

Way-Too-Early-June-4-2023.jpg

Wonder whether several of those blank spaces in DBA’s graphic ^ might mean a few votes for Clemson? I’d hope so.

Imo, they’ll deservedly be consensus preseason ACC top 4. As of right now — acknowledging additional transfers all over the map — I’d put them preseason #2 in the ACC. Although their best player, Hunter Tyson, finally ran out of eligibility, they have some real talent, plenty of additional experience with incoming transfers, and the requisite depth at most positions.

They’ll have an experienced PG (5th-year Chase Hunter), a preseason 1st-team All-ACC guy (P.J. Hall), several 3-pt shooters (including, but not limited to, Joe Girard), an important sneaky-good pickup from the Wolfpack (Jack Clark).

Clemson, Miami, and UNC all play each other twice in ‘23-‘24. Duke plays each of Clemson and Miami only once.

[DavidBenAkiva]

Wonder whether several of those blank spaces in DBA’s graphic ^ might mean a few votes for Clemson? I’d hope so.

Imo, they’ll deservedly be consensus preseason ACC top 4. As of right now — acknowledging additional transfers all over the map — I’d put them preseason #2 in the ACC. Although their best player, Hunter Tyson, finally ran out of eligibility, they have some real talent, plenty of additional experience with incoming transfers, and the requisite depth at most positions.

They’ll have an experienced PG (5th-year Chase Hunter), a preseason 1st-team All-ACC guy (P.J. Hall), several 3-pt shooters (including, but not limited to, Joe Girard), an important sneaky-good pickup from the Wolfpack (Jack Clark).

Clemson, Miami, and UNC all play each other twice in ‘23-‘24. Duke plays each of Clemson and Miami only once.

Clemson hasn't been in any of the top 25 rankings I have seen this offseason.

Duke, Miami, and UNC are the only ACC teams that got a spot in the June re-rankings. There were about a dozen rankings just after the NCAA Tournament game. A couple of those had UVA. None had Clemson.

Andy Katz, who also works for the B1G Network, was only person to have Maryland, Northwestern, and Ohio State ranked.

[AGDukesky]

Andy Katz, who also works for the B1G Network, was only person to have Maryland, Northwestern, and Ohio State ranked.

You mean University of Wisconsin alum Andy Katz?! I’m sure it was just his honest opinion…

[scottdude8]

Clemson hasn't been in any of the top 25 rankings I have seen this offseason.

Duke, Miami, and UNC are the only ACC teams that got a spot in the June re-rankings. There were about a dozen rankings just after the NCAA Tournament game. A couple of those had UVA. None had Clemson.

Andy Katz, who also works for the B1G Network, was only person to have Maryland, Northwestern, and Ohio State ranked.

I know that 99.9% of this recognize this, especially in June, but what will be most relevant for us is how many ACC Teams are in the Top 30 and Top 75 of the NET (i.e., Q1 territory). Of note is that we get UNC and Pitt home and away this season, Clemson and Virginia just at home, and Miami just away. If the home matchups against Clemson and Virginia could be Q1 that would be huge, and with a decent non-conference showing those teams could easily find themselves in the NET Top 30, regardless of these pre-season rankings. I also think Pitt might be a dark horse to do so as well given their success last year and reasonable success in the portal this offseason.

[DavidBenAkiva]

I know that 99.9% of this recognize this, especially in June, but what will be most relevant for us is how many ACC Teams are in the Top 30 and Top 75 of the NET (i.e., Q1 territory). Of note is that we get UNC and Pitt home and away this season, Clemson and Virginia just at home, and Miami just away. If the home matchups against Clemson and Virginia could be Q1 that would be huge, and with a decent non-conference showing those teams could easily find themselves in the NET Top 30, regardless of these pre-season rankings. I also think Pitt might be a dark horse to do so as well given their success last year and reasonable success in the portal this offseason.

I am more confident of Clemson being a NET top 30 team than Virginia. UVA, I don't know how the Cavaliers are going to score the ball enough next season. Their frontcourt gives me a lot of pause. It typically takes years for Virginia players to grasp the defensive assignments and rotations. They are going to have a lot of new faces in Charlottesville this year, in particular in the frontcourt. Jacob Groves and Jordan Minor is an interesting pairing, to say the least. I suspect Dunn will get a lot of minutes alongside Minor. That's a small frontcourt no matter what and it offers almost no offense with Dunn and Minor.

I do think Virginia will be among the top 4 teams in the ACC by the end of the season. Their schedule is very favorable. Their home-and-home matchups mostly include what should be the bottom of the conference, including Louisville, Notre Dame, and Georgia Tech. They only play Clemson, Duke, Miami, and UNC once each. A year after UVA had the 15th-ranked conference Strength of Schedule in 2022, Virginia should have the easiest in-conference schedule once again. And they say that the ACC favors the North Carolina schools...