Way Way Way too early 2023-24 top 25 NCAA Men's Basketball rankings

[JasonEvans]

247's experts have unveiled their waaaay too early top 25.

https://247sports.com/college/duke/L.../#207767366_10

1. Duke
2. Marquette
3. UConn
4. Creighton
5. Houston
6. Purdue
7. Texas
8. Miami
9. Arkansas
10. Florida Atlantic

[DavidBenAkiva]

What's that, a post about rankings, in this thread???

[DavidBenAkiva]

247's experts have unveiled their waaaay too early top 25.

https://247sports.com/college/duke/L.../#207767366_10

1. Duke
2. Marquette
3. UConn
4. Creighton
5. Houston
6. Purdue
7. Texas
8. Miami
9. Arkansas
10. Florida Atlantic

An interesting write-up from the team at 247:

Filipowski is a real option to return to Durham, so that reflects here. If Roach returns, this group gets even more loaded, and expect the Blue Devils to go guns blazing after a more traditional five man that would allow Duke to bump Filipowski down to the four. Proctor and Filipowski could be among the nation’s best players in 2023-24, and the Blue Devils’ recruiting class isn’t just 247Sports’ second best, it’s 1) a group with a strong roster and stylistic fit and 2) they won’t be asked to carry a team that has that returning talent. When you’re rolling out players like Caleb Foster, Sean Stewart and potentially Mgbako or McCain as backups, you’re going to be among the nation’s most talented teams. And this year, Duke has an intersection between talent and players who earned experience playing for Jon Scheyer a year ago.

[scottdude8]

An interesting write-up from the team at 247:

Filipowski is a real option to return to Durham, so that reflects here. If Roach returns, this group gets even more loaded, and expect the Blue Devils to go guns blazing after a more traditional five man that would allow Duke to bump Filipowski down to the four. Proctor and Filipowski could be among the nation’s best players in 2023-24, and the Blue Devils’ recruiting class isn’t just 247Sports’ second best, it’s 1) a group with a strong roster and stylistic fit and 2) they won’t be asked to carry a team that has that returning talent. When you’re rolling out players like Caleb Foster, Sean Stewart and potentially Mgbako or McCain as backups, you’re going to be among the nation’s most talented teams. And this year, Duke has an intersection between talent and players who earned experience playing for Jon Scheyer a year ago.

Yeah, that's an extremely exciting blurb. It vibes with a lot of what we've been hearing not just about potential returnees and our portal interests, but also the incoming class: despite some lofty rankings this group likely doesn't have a Paolo, and may not even have a Dariq/Dereck/Flip, but has guys that should be able to contribute immediately in specific roles and grow over (potentially) multiple years.

Coupled with Jai Lucas' recent comments about how we're going to start being "surprised" by sophomores returning, it seems like the coaching staff is playing chess while we all are thinking in terms of checkers. It certainly seems as if Jon has a multi-year plan in place with each recruit and for each class, which is how you build the continuity he craves. I can't wait for tonight's end of the season so we can officially start getting psyched for next year.

[Southgate0809]

Yeah, that's an extremely exciting blurb. It vibes with a lot of what we've been hearing not just about potential returnees and our portal interests, but also the incoming class: despite some lofty rankings this group likely doesn't have a Paolo, and may not even have a Dariq/Dereck/Flip, but has guys that should be able to contribute immediately in specific roles and grow over (potentially) multiple years.

Coupled with Jai Lucas' recent comments about how we're going to start being "surprised" by sophomores returning, it seems like the coaching staff is playing chess while we all are thinking in terms of checkers. It certainly seems as if Jon has a multi-year plan in place with each recruit and for each class, which is how you build the continuity he craves. I can't wait for tonight's end of the season so we can officially start getting psyched for next year.

I think I may be as excited about next season as I've ever been. 2019 was an incredibly exciting year during the season. We knew we had big time talent coming in, but I had no idea ahead of time that Zion would be that much fun to watch. I'd really like to see next year's team take things to the next level by being able to push the pace on offense. Scheyer talked about wanting to do that this season, but we never got there. A team that defends well, shoots well, rebounds well, and gets out in transition. Watch out!

[UrinalCake]

Flip AND Roach coming back? That would be 4/5 of our starting lineup from this past season with five 5-stars coming in. I might lose my mind if that happens

[Skydog]

Agreed. I have a hard time believing that an athlete (especially in a revenue producing sport) is supposed to perform the same as a regular student when there is a 9pm Monday night nationally televised game in Tallahassee and a 9am Physics exam the next day as well as a History paper due on Wednesday. Sure, there is academic support staff in place (largely for compliance stated above). But expecting these kids to take on arduous academic tasks while also focusing on the time and effort it takes to complete at an elite level of college athletics in order to satisfy television ratings and our own fan-based desires is pretty much absurd. Not every kid can be Shane Battier

There is some data that contradicts this reasonable expectation. Some studies have found that athletes grades are higher during their sports seasons (Fall or Spring), not lower. I believe I read that applies in both HS and college but it may have just been college. The surmised explanation is that sports seasons are more structured and offer fewer chances to get off track I guess.

[MarkD83]

247's experts have unveiled their waaaay too early top 25.

https://247sports.com/college/duke/L.../#207767366_10

1. Duke
2. Marquette
3. UConn
4. Creighton
5. Houston
6. Purdue
7. Texas
8. Miami
9. Arkansas
10. Florida Atlantic

The Big East will be very competitive.

[CDu]

There is some data that contradicts this reasonable expectation. Some studies have found that athletes grades are higher during their sports seasons (Fall or Spring), not lower. I believe I read that applies in both HS and college but it may have just been college. The surmised explanation is that sports seasons are more structured and offer fewer chances to get off track I guess.

I also wonder if, to the extent it's possible, programs work with players to reduce the difficulty of the classes taken during the player's sports seasons. Obviously bball would be an exception in that it spans both semesters. But the idea for football makes perfect sense: take as simple a load as possible during football season and then a harder load in the off-season.

[sagegrouse]

I also wonder if, to the extent it's possible, programs work with players to reduce the difficulty of the classes taken during the player's sports seasons. Obviously bball would be an exception in that it spans both semesters. But the idea for football makes perfect sense: take as simple a load as possible during football season and then a harder load in the off-season.

Back in my day the deans stated that football players did better academically in the fall than in the spring. Lots of required subjects -- five courses in the schedule -- Saturday AM classes.

[johnb]

I haven't been able to confirm it, but likely just this past season. DWBB had a player who mysteriously disappeared from the team during the early part of Christmas break...just about the time final grade should have come out. She didn't play another game for Duke despite having been a solid rotation player for the team earlier in the season, and she put her name in the portal pretty much on the first day it was open. Duke isn't going to announce an academic suspension, but the evidence seems to point to that conclusion.

Duke has announced academic suspensions for basketball players, though it’s been a while.

The eligibility lower limit for ncaa sports seems to be a gpa of 1.8. Between grade inflation, thorough support services (including keeping track of attendance), and careful course selection, it’s probably a little hard to get a 1.8. Somebody mentioned a 9am physics class. I’m not sure how many Duke basketball players have ever taken physics. Domzalski, Burgin, Langdon. Others? Of course, how many non-science major, non-pre-med undergrads have taken physics? Not many.

Anyway, I don’t expect our average athletes to perform academically at the level of the average undergrad, but I completely expect them to stay eligible and be on track to graduate. And if they stay for 4 or 5 years, I expect the graduation rate to be close to 100%.

My impression is that current academic rules for athletes are much tighter than they were back when Vonnegut was writing. That’s true in both high school and college. My mother taught at an elite high school in the 60’s and 70’s. “Elite” meaning that it turned out a large number of elite athletes. Many of the kids she taught were functionally illiterate but attended Big 12* schools for 4 years, somehow.

All that is to say that the ncaa may have been been defanged, but I’d be really bummed/irritated if they just tossed in the towel and gave up on academic expectations.

* yea, I mean SWC.

[jipops]

There is some data that contradicts this reasonable expectation. Some studies have found that athletes grades are higher during their sports seasons (Fall or Spring), not lower. I believe I read that applies in both HS and college but it may have just been college. The surmised explanation is that sports seasons are more structured and offer fewer chances to get off track I guess.

Would like to see that data and how deep it goes. Is the course load parallel to that of non athletes? I’m not saying there is anything wrong with that if they aren’t. But we’ve already gotten accounts of athletes being discouraged from pursuing courses that conflict with their capacity to focus on their sport.

[brevity]

Stadium: Jeff Goodman’s Preseason Top 25 for 2023-24

1. Marquette
2. Duke

The Blue Devils will lose Dariq Whitehead and are also expected to lose Kyle Filipowski and Dereck Lively, but they could have a backcourt of Tyrese Proctor and Jeremy Roach (if Roach returns). Veteran big man Ryan Young returns, and the Blue Devils bring in a talented freshman class with five players ranked in the top 40. Look for multi-dimensional freshman forward TJ Power to make an immediate impact. Also look for Jon Scheyer to go to the portal to add another veteran big man.

3. Michigan State
4. FAU
5. Purdue
6. Creighton
7. Connecticut
8. Houston
9. Kansas
10. Kentucky

11. Miami
23. UNC

Just Missed the Cut: Clemson, Virginia

CBS Sports: UConn is No. 1 over Purdue in never-too-early 2023-24 preseason Top 25 And 1

1. Connecticut
2. Purdue
3. Marquette
4. Miami
5. FAU
6. Creighton
7. Alabama
8. Duke

This ranking is based on the Blue Devils enrolling a top-five recruiting class featuring five five-star prospects - most notably Mackenzie Mgbako and Sean Stewart - and returning three of the top four scorers from a team that won 10 of its final 11 games. Jon Scheyer's second season as a head coach should be better than his first.

9. UCLA
10. Kansas

(#11-26 include no ACC teams)

[AlaskanAssassin]

Fox Sports

1. Duke

The Blue Devils bring back Tyrese Proctorand Mark Mitchell, and Jon Scheyer ushers in five 5-star recruits to Durham. If Jeremy Roach returns, that would be massive and only solidify that the Blue Devils should make significant noise next March.

11. Miami
20. North Carolina

[DavidBenAkiva]

I pulled together six different top 25 rankings and created a consensus ranking for reddit. I'll need to add a few others, like Jeff Goodman's and Fox Sports.

[simplyluvin]

Seems like these rankings have an assumption that Roach comes back, for which this board seems to have prevailing sentiment that that is not going to happen. With Flip but no Roach still feels like a top ten team but I am not sure about top 3.

[scottdude8]

Seems like these rankings have an assumption that Roach comes back, for which this board seems to have prevailing sentiment that that is not going to happen. With Flip but no Roach still feels like a top ten team but I am not sure about top 3.

From what I’ve seen most of the rankings are iffy on Roach but assuming Flip is gone. I still think Top 5 is right with Flip and no Roach if for no other reason that our incoming class is better suited to replace Roach as an off-guard (by no means am I saying McCain and Foster replicate Roach’s production let alone leadership, but they’re both 5* guards) than Flip’s uniqueness at the 4.

[DavidBenAkiva]

I pulled together six different top 25 rankings and created a consensus ranking for reddit. I'll need to add a few others, like Jeff Goodman's and Fox Sports.

Here's the updated version with Jeff Goodman and Fox Sports. I also moved Texas A&M to the SEC and Houston to the Big 12.

[JasonEvans]

DBA, you can add Seth Davis in the Athletic to your Too Early consensus rankings: https://theathletic.com/4374061/2023...shared_article

1. Marquette
2. Purdue
3. Creighton
4. Miami
5. Florida Atl
6. Mich St.
7. UCLA
8. Arizona
9. Kentucky
10. Duke

Considering Seth went to Duke, it is almost like he is not paying any attention to the team. He lists Ryan Young among the players leaving despite Young stating he will be back. He expects Flip to go and Roach to stay (many folks seem to expect the opposite, though who knows how either will decide). Most significantly, he says this about Duke:

Jon Scheyer has said he wants to get away from relying too heavily on freshmen, but that strategy is going to have to wait at least another year.

Ummm, Seth, you project Duke to return 3 starters and 4 of our top 7 players, including our starting backcourt. How is that not a shift from past Duke teams?!

On second thought, DBA, maybe don't bother to include this poorly researched notion of an early top 25.

[robed deity]

DBA, you can add Seth Davis in the Athletic to your Too Early consensus rankings: https://theathletic.com/4374061/2023...shared_article

1. Marquette
2. Purdue
3. Creighton
4. Miami
5. Florida Atl
6. Mich St.
7. UCLA
8. Arizona
9. Kentucky
10. Duke

Considering Seth went to Duke, it is almost like he is not paying any attention to the team. He lists Ryan Young among the players leaving despite Young stating he will be back. He expects Flip to go and Roach to stay (many folks seem to expect the opposite, though who knows how either will decide). Most significantly, he says this about Duke:



Ummm, Seth, you project Duke to return 3 starters and 4 of our top 7 players, including our starting backcourt. How is that not a shift from past Duke teams?!

On second thought, DBA, maybe don't bother to include this poorly researched notion of an early top 25.

Seth Davis seems affable and a cool guy to have a beer with. But how he has ascended to top studio analyst for CBS is beyond me.