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Thread: 2023 MLB Season

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronDuke View Post
    Don’t think Murphy isn’t a top 5 catcher. Just can’t hit.

    I know you mentioned you don’t put much weight on batting average but the guy is hitting .158. I disagree. I still weigh that metric fairly heavily.
    So he's not elite defensively but is still a top 5 catcher even though he can't hit? And part of your evidence for this is his batting average 20 at bats into the season? I don't think there's any point in continuing this discussion.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by kmspeaks View Post
    So he's not elite defensively but is still a top 5 catcher even though he can't hit? And part of your evidence for this is his batting average 20 at bats into the season? I don't think there's any point in continuing this discussion.
    No it’s his .234 career batting average that you don’t even place much weight on lol yeah probably better not to. Hopefully Murphy, Rosario, and Ozuna get north of the Mendoza line for you guys soon. Although you don’t consider batting average to be a meaningful statistic, literally millions of fans, coaches, scouts, experts, players, and front offices would disagree with you.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronDuke View Post
    No it’s his .234 career batting average that you don’t even place much weight on lol yeah probably better not to. Hopefully Murphy, Rosario, and Ozuna get north of the Mendoza line for you guys soon. Although you don’t consider batting average to be a meaningful statistic, literally millions of fans, coaches, scouts, experts, players, and front offices would disagree with you.
    No, they don't.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by kmspeaks View Post
    So the opinion of three journalists who have likely zero experience at the MLB level on the field disproves a statistic widely viewed, interpreted, weighted, and analyzed by countless people? I’m still not totally buying what you’re selling!

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronDuke View Post
    So the opinion of three journalists who have likely zero experience at the MLB level on the field disproves a statistic widely viewed, interpreted, weighted, and analyzed by countless people? I’m still not totally buying what you’re selling!
    I picked the first 3 results but there are a host of others. I am quite confident batting average will not be anywhere near the top of the list used by MLB front offices to evaluate hitters. Sure, it's still listed on baseball cards and scoreboards but that's because tradition is hard to kill in baseball. It's industry standard that OBP and OPS give a much better picture of a player's contribution and that's without even getting into advanced stats like WAR or WRC+. It's not me selling this, it's all of baseball for the last 10-15 years.

    Aside from that, I still don't understand how you view Murphy as a top 5 catcher if "he's not elite defensively and he can't hit."

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by kmspeaks View Post
    I picked the first 3 results but there are a host of others. I am quite confident batting average will not be anywhere near the top of the list used by MLB front offices to evaluate hitters. Sure, it's still listed on baseball cards and scoreboards but that's because tradition is hard to kill in baseball. It's industry standard that OBP and OPS give a much better picture of a player's contribution and that's without even getting into advanced stats like WAR or WRC+. It's not me selling this, it's all of baseball for the last 10-15 years.

    Aside from that, I still don't understand how you view Murphy as a top 5 catcher if "he's not elite defensively and he can't hit."
    Low bar these days to be top 5 at the position of catcher. Posey, Molina, Lucroy, McCann, and Wieters all retired in the last year to four-ish years. All were way better than Murphy as well as Contreras and others who are now in the top 5 probably.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronDuke View Post
    No it’s his .234 career batting average that you don’t even place much weight on lol yeah probably better not to. Hopefully Murphy, Rosario, and Ozuna get north of the Mendoza line for you guys soon. Although you don’t consider batting average to be a meaningful statistic, literally millions of fans, coaches, scouts, experts, players, and front offices would disagree with you.
    I have a middle view that batting average certainly isn't as huge a stat as it once was considered, but I also wouldn't totally discount it. It's not like Murphy draws a lot of walks or has tremendous power, either. I definitely consider WAR but don't consider it quite as gospel as some do. When there are competing WAR numbers, it can't be entirely scientific, and it seems the defensive numbers in particular have subjectivity. Catchers seem to be overvalued in WAR based on the player ratings last year. There aren't a lot of star catchers now, but the younger Conteras the Braves had last year seemed pretty good to me, so I'm not sure how much Murphy improves the team.

    Rosario has been a below average player since 2019, except for the week when he was the best player in history in knocking my Dodgers out of the playoffs. As for Ozuna, the Dodgers cut their domestic abuser, at great expense.

    The Braves signed so many favorable contracts with their young talent, that I expect them to be a major contender for the foreseeable future. Between injuries and letting players go without replacing them in the offseason, the Dodgers don't look as strong this year, but maybe they are saving up for the Ohtani sweepstakes.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke79UNLV77 View Post
    I have a middle view that batting average certainly isn't as huge a stat as it once was considered, but I also wouldn't totally discount it.
    This is my position as well even if it didn't come across that way in some of my earlier replies. Ultimately having a .235 average shouldn't, and in today's MLB doesn't, disqualify you from being considered a good hitter and especially not a good hitting catcher.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke79UNLV77 View Post
    It's not like Murphy draws a lot of walks or has tremendous power, either. I definitely consider WAR but don't consider it quite as gospel as some do. When there are competing WAR numbers, it can't be entirely scientific, and it seems the defensive numbers in particular have subjectivity. Catchers seem to be overvalued in WAR based on the player ratings last year. There aren't a lot of star catchers now, but the younger Conteras the Braves had last year seemed pretty good to me, so I'm not sure how much Murphy improves the team.
    William Contreras can absolutely rake and is definitely a better hitter than Murphy. However, Murphy is miles ahead of him defensively in every aspect of catching but particularly throwing. The Braves wanted Murphy to help counteract the new rules that encourage steals.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duke79UNLV77 View Post
    Rosario has been a below average player since 2019, except for the week when he was the best player in history in knocking my Dodgers out of the playoffs. As for Ozuna, the Dodgers cut their domestic abuser, at great expense.
    Rosario doesn't have to be great, just not miserable. He currently has the 2nd highest difference in MLB in expected wOBA vs actual. He's hit the ball hard this year and has nothing to show for it so I'm willing to give him a few more weeks for that to even out. I can't believe Ozuna is still on the roster. Domestic abuse + a DUI + being one of the few players to not show up early to spring training + being flat out terrible at the plate and he still has a job? I know the contract is big (by Atlanta's standards) but it's a sunk cost, and I wish they would cut bait and move on.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Walk off for Murphy. Maybe I was wrong .

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by CameronDuke View Post
    Walk off for Murphy. Maybe I was wrong .
    He had 2 doubles as well. Hey, you want to argue about Ozzie Albies and see if we can get him going too? 😂

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by kmspeaks View Post
    He had 2 doubles as well. Hey, you want to argue about Ozzie Albies and see if we can get him going too? 😂
    He looks so bad. And looked really bad during their World Series run two years ago.

  12. #52
    I haven’t figured out a way to actually watch the Braves yet. Does anyone have any suggestions?

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by kshepinthehouse View Post
    He looks so bad. And looked really bad during their World Series run two years ago.
    While you're at it, can y'all magically make Grissom better in the field so we can get him in the lineup?

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by robed deity View Post
    While you're at it, can y'all magically make Grissom better in the field so we can get him in the lineup?
    Stick him in left. Can’t be worse than Ozuna/Rosario

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by kshepinthehouse View Post
    Stick him in left. Can’t be worse than Ozuna/Rosario
    Right now Grissom is playing 4/6 games at SS and the other two at 2B in Gwinnett. I'd love for those 2 non-SS games to be in LF instead because he might be needed there this season.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by kmspeaks View Post
    He had 2 doubles as well. Hey, you want to argue about Ozzie Albies and see if we can get him going too? 😂
    Quote Originally Posted by kshepinthehouse View Post
    He looks so bad. And looked really bad during their World Series run two years ago.
    It worked!! Career HR #100.

  17. #57
    There were some shenanigans in the Yankees game today. The explanations that are coming out after the fact now don’t hold water IMO

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Winston Salem, NC
    Cardinal rookie, Jordan Walker tied a record that has stood for over 100 years last night. He's gotten a hit in his first 12 games which ties the record for rookie players under 21 years of age. Walker passed Ted Williams in 2nd place earlier this week and is tied with Eddie Murphy for the 1912 Philadelphia Athletics. He can break the record tonight against the Pirates when the Cards return home after a short road trip.

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Vermont
    Tigers wasting no time in disabusing me of any notion that they will be relevant...blew a two run lead in the ninth to go 2-9 on the season, so that's it.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by acdevil View Post
    There were some shenanigans in the Yankees game today. The explanations that are coming out after the fact now don’t hold water IMO
    Hmm. What allegedly happened?

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