Elevation on a jumpshot

[ClemmonsDevil]

To.me, McCain seems to get average or slightly above average height on his jump. This is such a subjective term, but there's good bounce to it. Zion has no bounce and seems like he's in the 1st percentile for vertical leap on his set shots. And to add more subjectivity, his lower body looks stiff and unbouncy.

Zion is an absolute dancing bear and I love him so incredibly much. He is a pure arm shooter.

[jv001]

I really liked how high Rick Barry got on his free throws. Amazing!

[OldPhiKap]

Did we really get this far without a cinder block test being suggested?

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

SDSU kid almost blew it by jumping as high as he did on that last shot.

[dukelifer]

SDSU kid almost blew it by jumping as high as he did on that last shot.

Was very pretty

[Southgate0809]

SDSU kid almost blew it by jumping as high as he did on that last shot.

Haha yeah what an idiot. Got lucky

[ClemmonsDevil]

We tried to tell you you have to jump when a guy is guarding you and it's not what you do when you're wide open.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

We tried to tell you you have to jump when a guy is guarding you and it's not what you do when you're wide open.

Clemmons, I stand by my statement. It’s ludicrous to think that jumping high makes a jumpshot less accurate. I mean, unless you’ve never done it before. Anyway. I couldn’t help myself.

[ClemmonsDevil]

Clemmons, I stand by my statement. It’s ludicrous to think that jumping high makes a jumpshot less accurate. I mean, unless you’ve never done it before. Anyway. I couldn’t help myself.

I don't think it's the most limiting factor that has ever occurred in Jump shots. Being a bad jump shooter is. I posited in my screed, nay diatribe on jump shooting that jumping high isn't required. I did also own that perhaps I don't jump any higher because I can't. It is in play.

[ClemmonsDevil]

I don't think it's the most limiting factor that has ever occurred in Jump shots. Being a bad jump shooter is. I posited in my screed, nay diatribe on jump shooting that jumping high isn't required. I did also own that perhaps I don't jump any higher because I can't. It is in play.

Also I played today and was able to light it up to the tune of 1 for 10 from 3. It took me only 10 shots to realize they weren't going in so I started shooting Fade Away jump shots off the post up. I did have to jump higher for those.

[ClemmonsDevil]

I've been thinking a lot about this as someone who was a good jump shooter. I'm 49 years old and I still make between 18 and 22 high school dostance three-point shots out of 25 when I shoot them every day.

Honestly jump shots should be broken down into three distinct areas in my opinion. Three point or distance shots, free throws and what I would call non-traditional jump shots (I did and do shoot a ton of off balance fade-away jump shots when I play). The thing they all have in common is what happens with your shoulders and hands. Your upper body is generally doing the same thing on all of these shots. The difference is what's going on with your lower body. Other variables involved are upper and lower body strength. I think upper body strength has more to do with it, or at least it has yielded the best results for me.

3 point/distance: this is all about energy transfer. I can shoot the same jump shot from 20 ft out to about 26 ft. From 26 to 30 ft I need to do a little bit more work. I take a hop on my jump shot about three to four inches off the ground. Now you could argue that is as high as I can jump, but how dare you. Also maybe true. But the distance shot is energy transfer from getting a little bit of knee bend and transferring that into a bit of upwards or forwards motion depending on the shooter. Guys who have more of a slight build frequently have a bit of a slight to exaggerated slingshot action where they have to generate force in their upper body. Think Sam Perkins and to a lesser extent Steph Curry. Both cock their arms back at least somewhat before going into their shooting motion. It generates force. Those two are arm shooters. I'm a leg shooter from distance so the slight knee bend and the ball never gets pulled back towards my body or shoulder but goes straight up and then out towards the basket. I do find as I have aged that when I'm squaring up from really deep like out to 28 to 30 ft I have to jump higher and put in a little bit of a hip turn, which I stole from JJ Redick. He jumped way higher than I ever did on his jump shot. I will have an argument for why that works so well for him in the non-traditional jump shot part.

Free throws: to me these are purely rhythm shots. It is replication and release. Some slight energy transfer but most good shooters just have a technique and a replicable release. Kids were taught to stare at the center rung on the front of the rim but I found that didn't help me. I stared at the back middle rung as a free throw shooter. I do agree that the reason you don't jump on free throws is the jump is the least replicable part of your shot. The free throw is the shot that is most easily replicable because it's the same distance shooting at the same height with absolutely no defense in every gym. I was a 90% free throw shooter in high school and I absolutely missed two pressure free throws that cost us the conference championship my sophomore year. Somehow the goal does get a bit smaller when you're 15 and absolutely terrified playing on the road.

Non-traditional jump shots: these are shots that I would define as on the move or fading away. If you watch Jordan, Kobe and even JJ shoot jump shots, they shot a lot of jumpers on the move. I'm short and without overwhelming athletic ability but I'm a little stronger than average so I shot an absolute ton of fade-away jump shots. These require higher jumping because you are working against gravity on fadeaways or drifting from opponents as you shoot. If you watch JJ in the nba, he shot an absolute ton of jumpers off the curl screen where he never got his feet set and he was drifting. MJ and Kobe shot a ton of fade-away jump shots or pull up jumpers over 7-footers. These shots require you to leap higher and they are the most difficult jumper to master. But the great shooters are doing lots of drifting or fading and jumping at odd angles with their lower bodies, but watch videos of JJ shooting in the NBA. His shoulders are always square and his upper body is generally in the same plane as it is on a set jumper or free throw. It's his lower body that is operating differently than it is on his normal set shot or three pointer. I mentioned his hip turn, and this was his method for generating strength on his jump shot while fading or moving. It's like a coiled spring. After watching him I started to incorporate that on really deep shots out to about 30 ft because it allowed me to keep my normal jumping height and form like I was using on a 20 foot shot but generated a bit more power.

So this is my diatribe on jump shots and why I think they exist in three realms. Normal distance threes which are a set shot, free throws which are rhythm shots and non-traditional jump shots which I do think require a lot more leg action either for strength as you fade or height to score over taller opponents on pull-ups.

Bumping this because I'm watching the Syracuse game and I wanted to get a look at Mark Mitchell's jump shot. He's definitely remaking it. Another post will follow but this is what I wrote about jump shooting last year.

[ClemmonsDevil]

Watching the Syracuse game because I wanted to take a look at the three that Mitchell took in the mid first half to see if it looked different than what I have seen from him on the year. It did. He has a bit of a hitch in his jumper normally that is somewhat reminiscent of the pause that Charles Barkley had in his golf swing. It brings everything to a stop and you have to restart from a very odd position when you have that level of hitch. This jumper didn't look anything like that. It looked very smooth with fewer moving parts from his arms. He also jack-knifes his waist and this jumper didn't have that. As other posters have said, it also looked like it had more arc. That was very astute. It did. He's trying to remake his jumper and make it what I would call quieter. The fewer moving parts you have in a jump shot the fewer things can go wrong. Another way to say that is don't do things with your legs, your feet, your elbows, your hips because introducing moving parts leads to more opportunity for breakdown. Make your jump shot simpler. It's really hard to do and I think we are watching him try to work through it. I know people don't love it, but he's got to take some in games. One to three per game is something he simply has to do to work through this. And he's too talented in other aspects of the game for us to complain about those shots.

[Maged]

I'm glad Sage mentioned Hal Greer, who shot jumpers from the foul line so he would only need to practice one kind of shot. And I recall he shot about 80% from the line so it worked for him. A lot of extra effort though.

He's the only one I can think of though.

[MChambers]

Watching the Syracuse game because I wanted to take a look at the three that Mitchell took in the mid first half to see if it looked different than what I have seen from him on the year. It did. He has a bit of a hitch in his jumper normally that is somewhat reminiscent of the pause that Charles Barkley had in his golf swing. It brings everything to a stop and you have to restart from a very odd position when you have that level of hitch. This jumper didn't look anything like that. It looked very smooth with fewer moving parts from his arms. He also jack-knifes his waist and this jumper didn't have that. As other posters have said, it also looked like it had more arc. That was very astute. It did. He's trying to remake his jumper and make it what I would call quieter. The fewer moving parts you have in a jump shot the fewer things can go wrong. Another way to say that is don't do things with your legs, your feet, your elbows, your hips because introducing moving parts leads to more opportunity for breakdown. Make your jump shot simpler. It's really hard to do and I think we are watching him try to work through it. I know people don't love it, but he's got to take some in games. One to three per game is something he simply has to do to work through this. And he's too talented in other aspects of the game for us to complain about those shots.

Can't spork, but this is great. Really rooting for Mark. Seems like a great teammate.

[DoubleBlue]

There's plenty of variations, but I believe the best shooters always have the smoothest and most repeatable strokes. That can come naturally or through repetition, usually both. No matter what, there has to be a good wrist snap which gives the final 10% of effort and adjustment. There are many body positions but the stroke still gets input from the legs, torso, arms and wrist/fingers. They all work together and can compensate for any number of body positions or distances. Its all about mechanics and also mental approach. I always thought of the ball as a point of mass, not a sphere. You're simply pushing that point of mass into the cylinder. Trajectory is just an outcome of all of that. There's an optimum trajectory which results in higher percentages with the least effort.

[Dopeshop]

It might be fun to hear from Coach Lucas about his Dad’s flat footed “jumper “
John Lucas was a special talent
Even better skills ,perhaps, on the tennis court.

[rsvman]

Watching the Syracuse game because I wanted to take a look at the three that Mitchell took in the mid first half to see if it looked different than what I have seen from him on the year. It did. He has a bit of a hitch in his jumper normally that is somewhat reminiscent of the pause that Charles Barkley had in his golf swing. It brings everything to a stop and you have to restart from a very odd position when you have that level of hitch. This jumper didn't look anything like that. It looked very smooth with fewer moving parts from his arms. He also jack-knifes his waist and this jumper didn't have that. As other posters have said, it also looked like it had more arc. That was very astute. It did. He's trying to remake his jumper and make it what I would call quieter. The fewer moving parts you have in a jump shot the fewer things can go wrong. Another way to say that is don't do things with your legs, your feet, your elbows, your hips because introducing moving parts leads to more opportunity for breakdown. Make your jump shot simpler. It's really hard to do and I think we are watching him try to work through it. I know people don't love it, but he's got to take some in games. One to three per game is something he simply has to do to work through this. And he's too talented in other aspects of the game for us to complain about those shots.

Agree with the 'hitch' comment. He's always had that. It just seems like it is so much work, like Barkley's golf swing.

Watch McCain's shot if you want to see the exact opposite. It looks like it requires no effort whatsoever. Like Ernie Els's swing, or Freddie Couples.

McCain's shot is quick and perfectly smooth. There are no extraneous movements. Zero.

[lotusland]

Thought this might be a good thread to mention that some South Koreans are banking free throws because you can shoot flatter and harder. I haven’t tested the theory myself.

https://youtu.be/42d39A1MAp8?si=lHI34xxWWh6uaybD

[DU82]

Thought this might be a good thread to mention that some South Koreans are banking free throws because you can shoot flatter and harder. I haven’t tested the theory myself.

https://youtu.be/42d39A1MAp8?si=lHI34xxWWh6uaybD

So my shooting form was right all along!

[-jk]

So my shooting form was right all along!

Brick Barry?

-jk