Elevation on a jumpshot

[Southgate0809]

I saw a picture of Michael Jordan hitting that jumper when won the national title, and it reminded how much he elevated for a jump shot. It seems like a lot of players, even ones with great leaping ability, don't do this. Why? Zion barely leaves the floor when he shoots a 3. Is there a disadvantage to jumping higher?

[TruBlu]

I saw a picture of Michael Jordan hitting that jumper when won the national title, and it reminded how much he elevated for a jump shot. It seems like a lot of players, even ones with great leaping ability, don't do this. Why? Zion barely leaves the floor when he shoots a 3. Is there a disadvantage to jumping higher?

My guess is that it adds another variable to the precision needed for accuracy. Jumping is needed to avoid blocks. No one jumps when shooting free throws. I know that I am (was) more accurate on my shots when keeping my feet planted.

[CDu]

I saw a picture of Michael Jordan hitting that jumper when won the national title, and it reminded how much he elevated for a jump shot. It seems like a lot of players, even ones with great leaping ability, don't do this. Why? Zion barely leaves the floor when he shoots a 3. Is there a disadvantage to jumping higher?

It's mainly because it adds an extra variable to the shot that isn't necessary. It's easier to shoot a set shot consistently than it is to shoot a jumpshot. It's why free throw shooters basically never jump. They are able to remove that variable entirely. And the higher you jump on average on your jumpshot, the more room for variance there is in the shot. Similar to the more you move forward/fade away/to either side, the more room for variance there is on a shot. All of these are mitigated the less you jump.

Of course, it's a tradeoff. If you only shoot set shots, it's much harder to get your shot off against a set defense. So players have to make a choice between how much they want (or need) to elevate to get their shot off against how much they want to control the variables of their shot attempt. Redick would really elevate if he was coming off a screen. But if he was in a straight catch and shoot situation, he would usually not jump very much.

On top of that, it simply takes more work to jump to shoot. So if you don't have to, there's little reason to do it. So guys usually only elevate if they have a guy right on them.

[Southgate0809]

I know it's minimal, but when you jump, the ball has a shorter distance to travel. I also would expect it a shooter get good arch on the ball if he is already in an upward motion.

[CDu]

I know it's minimal, but when you jump, the ball has a shorter distance to travel.

It's minimal, and it's more than offset by the variability created by jumping (because your jump isn't likely to be identical every time).

I also would expect it a shooter get good arch on the ball if he is already in an upward motion.

Jumping has no positive impact on a shooter's ability to get arc on their shot. If anything, the longer you wait in the air to shoot, the flatter your shot will end up being. But you can easily get all the arc you need without leaving the floor, and any gain from jumping would be if you release it right at the beginning of your jump. Every moment after your feet leave the floor, you are losing upward momentum.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I saw a picture of Michael Jordan hitting that jumper when won the national title, and it reminded how much he elevated for a jump shot. It seems like a lot of players, even ones with great leaping ability, don't do this. Why? Zion barely leaves the floor when he shoots a 3. Is there a disadvantage to jumping higher?

There is one very big one. It gets you above your defenders.

riverswins.jpg

[CDu]

There is one very big one. It gets you above your defenders.

That would be the opposite of a disadvantage...

[CameronBornAndBred]

That would be the opposite of a disadvantage...

True, read that backwards. Still, there's no bad reason not to share that photo.

[CDu]

True, read that backwards. Still, there's no bad reason not to share that photo.

Ah, for some reason the photo didn't show up for me at first. But it does now. I'll allow it .

[bedeviled]

Thread made me think of Bill Cartwright. Despite standing 7'1" and shooting with his infamous overhead form, he still used turnaround fade away jumpers. Hard to block that!
I just looked up his career stats: 52.5% FG and 77.1% FT
Might as well embed a video of that glorious FT stroke

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

It's minimal, and it's more than offset by the variability created by jumping (because your jump isn't likely to be identical every time).



Jumping has no positive impact on a shooter's ability to get arc on their shot. If anything, the longer you wait in the air to shoot, the flatter your shot will end up being. But you can easily get all the arc you need without leaving the floor, and any gain from jumping would be if you release it right at the beginning of your jump. Every moment after your feet leave the floor, you are losing upward momentum.

I don’t understand this at all. Any shooting coach worth a crap will tell you to get your legs into your shot. Otherwise you’re shooting with all arm and wrist… which limits arc, range, and accuracy. Getting your legs into your shot is a key part of establishing consistent form. And more legs means less arms/wrist and therefore less chance of losing form because you have to overexert. Getting your legs into the shot is part of having a fluid, repeatable form. And, yes, using your legs is also useful in avoiding having your $&@# blocked all day long.

[Southgate0809]

I don’t understand this at all. Any shooting coach worth a crap will tell you to get your legs into your shot. Otherwise you’re shooting with all arm and wrist… which limits arc, range, and accuracy. Getting your legs into your shot is a key part of establishing consistent form. And more legs means less arms/wrist and therefore less chance of losing form because you have to overexert. Getting your legs into the shot is part of having a fluid, repeatable form. And, yes, using your legs is also useful in avoiding having your $&@# blocked all day long.

That was a better way of saying what I was trying to say.

[CDu]

I don’t understand this at all. Any shooting coach worth a crap will tell you to get your legs into your shot. Otherwise you’re shooting with all arm and wrist… which limits arc, range, and accuracy. Getting your legs into your shot is a key part of establishing consistent form. And more legs means less arms/wrist and therefore less chance of losing form because you have to overexert. Getting your legs into the shot is part of having a fluid, repeatable form. And, yes, using your legs is also useful in avoiding having your $&@# blocked all day long.

Getting your legs under you doesn't mean you have to jump as high as you can. It doesn't even mean you have to jump. As evidenced by the fact that nobody jumps when they shoot free throws. Everyone uses their legs when they shoot free throws, but nobody jumps. And why is that? Because jumping adds an extra variable that you don't want to add unless you have to do so. So as I said, "getting your legs into your shot" doesn't mean "jump as high as you can to shoot."

There are certainly times when you HAVE to jump. Most notably when a defender is right there in your face. But there is a reason why guys don't jump on free throws. And there is a reason why guys don't typically jump more than a couple of inches when they take wide open shots. And it is jumping high adds more variables to the equation. From a pure shooting perspective, the best is a set shot; second best is a shot just as your feet leave the ground. Anything more than that is only adding value if there is a defender right in your face.

Also, you don't have to exert your arms or wrists to shoot without jumping. It's a flick of the wrist combined with the support of your legs (again, support doesn't inherently mean jumping). I can shoot a set shot from three point range with minimal effort and no loss of form - same as my free throw stroke but with just a little more legs. Actually, the longer you wait in the air on a jumpshot, the MORE you have to use your arms (because as I said previously, you start losing momentum the moment your feet leave the floor). So the argument that you should jump as high as you can to shoot in order to save your arms and your form is exactly counter to reality.

[sagegrouse]

Getting your legs under you doesn't mean you have to jump as high as you can. It doesn't even mean you have to jump. As evidenced by the fact that nobody jumps when they shoot free throws. Everyone uses their legs when they shoot free throws, but nobody jumps.

I guess Hal Greer was a long, long time ago.

[Southgate0809]

You also can't jump during a free throw without risking stepping on the line and getting called for a lane violation, so I'm not sure if that proves anything. Are we saying that if you practiced it enough, it would be superior to shoot a wide open 3 without jumping if there was no risk of getting blocked?

[DoubleBlue]

Accurate shooting is also about consistency and repeatability. Whether you jump or not, your legs, torso, shoulders, arms, wrist and fingers all contribute to the shot. I think most shooters have a routine and a rhythm for free throws and another for jump shots and maybe another for running one-handers, etc. Each has been practiced to the point of consistency and repeatability.

Any shot has its coarse adjustments (legs and torso) followed by medium adjustments (shoulders and arms) followed by fine adjustments (wrist and fingers) or follow-through. You want to end up with that last 5-10% coming from wrist snap and fingers. The legs have already put in their contribution and as long as it gets the arms, wrist and fingers in the right position, in the right rhythm, it works.

[WillJ]

I think that players have increasingly used other methods of creating space to get off their shots. To take two examples, both Steph Curry and Luka Doncic are very good at juking guys enough so that they don't have to jump much to get off their shots. Back in Jordan's day (also my day, FWIW), there was far more emphasis on using lift to get separation. I think that's been shown to be less effective than modern methods.

[Southgate0809]

I think that players have increasingly used other methods of creating space to get off their shots. To take two examples, both Steph Curry and Luka Doncic are very good at juking guys enough so that they don't have to jump much to get off their shots. Back in Jordan's day (also my day, FWIW), there was far more emphasis on using lift to get separation. I think that's been shown to be less effective than modern methods.

Good point, although, I don't know if those 2 would be examples of guys that could really elevate on a jumpshot anyway haha

[CDu]

You also can't jump during a free throw without risking stepping on the line and getting called for a lane violation, so I'm not sure if that proves anything.

Sure you can. It's really not hard to jump straight up and down. It's sort of hard to jump straight up and down while jumping as high as you can though... which brings us back to the original response to your question. The reason guys don't jump as high as they can when shooting (unless it is necessitated by a defender present) is because it adds to the degree of difficulty by adding another variable.

Are we saying that if you practiced it enough, it would be superior to shoot a wide open 3 without jumping if there was no risk of getting blocked?

Very loosely speaking, yes. Or at the very most with a minimal jump. Which is why guys typically take set shots when wide open, or at the most take a very small jump.

[Southgate0809]

Sure you can. It's really not hard to jump straight up and down. It's sort of hard to jump straight up and down while jumping as high as you can though... which brings us back to the original response to your question. The reason guys don't jump as high as they can when shooting (unless it is necessitated by a defender present) is because it adds to the degree of difficulty by adding another variable.



Very loosely speaking, yes. Or at the very most with a minimal jump. Which is why guys typically take set shots when wide open, or at the most take a very small jump.

That would be the only situation in basketball where you're worried about exactly where you're feet land. Lots of shooters land their feet slightly forward where they initially jumped, so that would be a weird thing to train yourself to jump straight up and down, making sure you didn't move forward an inch. So, yes, of course it's possible to jump straight up and down, but there would be significant risk of landing on the line unless you moved back substantially, which would distance yourself from the basket.